Top 10 force users ( Excludes the Ancienth Sith )

Originally posted by Allankles
A holocron is nothing but a device that holds knowledge. The creation of such a device doesn't constitute a feat. And you don't have to be uber powerful to possess great knowledge.

Self-pawned again SW_LEGEND i.e. posting arguments that completely miss the point (the point here being designing a holocron doesn't = awe inspiring feat).

There've been many Sith/Jedi with plenty of knowledge in the force, but that doesn't make them uber powerful in any way.

I think you yourself get the self pwnage award for failing to realize that nobody was referring to creating a holocron, and that it's what's in the holocron that makes the creator uber powerful.

The content of the info in the holocron doesn't make anyone uber powerful, because all it is is knowledge. The knowledge of a force technique doesn't make anyone uber powerful, maybe you should get the point before making a rebuttal next time.

100% agree, Sexy, you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

🙂

All I'm saying is that having the knowledge to make a 'thought bomb' doesn't equate to power, neither is providing the spark to form the philosophy of the rule of two. By themselves these don't equate to feats or accomplishments, defeating the purpose of why we're having arguments over this.

If Revan never used this knowledge to any effect in his timeline, what then is the significance of the knowledge to Revan? Answer me this, and I might consider your argument.

Originally posted by Allankles
The content of the info in the holocron doesn't make anyone uber powerful, because all it is is knowledge. The knowledge of a force technique doesn't make anyone uber powerful, maybe you should get the point before making a rebuttal next time.

Good god. You're retarded. The fact that you have noobaris backing this crap up says a lot.

And you're quite clearly narrow minded, if you don't get the gist of my argument why waste the time to make a rebuttal?

The "Gist" of your argument involves downplaying Revan by whatever means, correct?

Just calling it as it is, I dislike exaggerations and I feel you've exaggerated many of Revan's accomplishments and/or feats.

It's clear to more than just me, that you dislike Revan, and you can't provide any logical argument to discredit him.

I'm not discrediting him (why get so defensive?), I'm just examining the character from a non-biased position. As I said, you, and SW-Legend especially, like to over glorify Revan's accomplishments and feats. While his accomplishments as a Sith are considerbale they don't make him in any way uber.

I'm not defensive. Your illogical anti Revan rhetoric has no effect on me.

Good, it's my sincere hope that it doesn't. But.....

Anti-Revan? 🙂 There you go again.

Yes, facts seem to ellude you.

Sexy, no offense, but I think you should leave the Revan arguments to AC.

Allankles!

You want to know that what Revan really accomplished as a Sith. Here is some useful information:

Creation of a Sith Empire:

A Sith Empire was founded by Dark Lord of the Sith - Darth Revan, and his apprentice, Darth Malak, as a dark side organization in direct opposition to the Galactic Republic and its Jedi defenders. Built upon a hardened core of veterans from the Mandalorian Wars and a host of Jedi converts, the fledgling new galactic power very nearly succeeded in conquering the Republic during the Jedi Civil War. During the Sith Empire's height, the Empire governed a large swath of the Outer Rim, including much of what was formerly known as Sith Space.

Known member worlds of Revan's Sith Empire:

- Dxun
- Korriban (Capital)
- Lehon
- Malachor V

Command Centre of Revan's Empire:

- Star Forge

Additional Strategic Establishments:

- A military base in Manaan

Known Allies:

- Czerka Corporation

Creation of a Sith Military:

Upon their return to known space, the Sith were well equipped for battle. The new Sith Empire's fleets were primarily dominated by stolen Republic vessels during the early stages of the Jedi Civil War, but they were soon supplemented by a host of starships built by the Star Forge. The Star Forge itself served as a primary staging ground and command center.

Naval/Space Fleets:

Interdictor Class Cruisers: Such as the Leviathan were among the finest Republic vessels of the time period.
Republic cruisers: Ravager type ships were also in service.
Sith Combat Fighters: Were a strange hybrid of technologies created by the Star Forge.
Sith Freighters: Were also used throughout the Empire. They were equipped with rudimentary defenses and possibly served as bombing craft.

Army/Ground Forces:

Sith Officers: were the army and naval troops of the Military.
Sith Troopers: served as the shock troops of the army.
Dark Jedi: were Jedi converts that formed the backbone of the Sith ground forces.
Sith Assassins: were used exclusively to hunt, capture, or kill Jedi.
War Droid-series: Various forms of battle droids were mass produced by the Star Forge for attack and defense purposes.

Revan's Dominance:

- The Jedi Civil War:

With Darth Revan at the helm, the Sith invasion was all but unstoppable. His Sith Assassins secretly flooded into the Republic from their base on Malachor V, killing and/or abducting Jedi throughout Republic space. In Sith outposts on Lehon, Dxun, and Korriban, Revan's most faithful servants broke captured Jedi and led them to the dark side. The Sith conspired with Czerka Corporation, one of the richest and most powerful galaxy-spanning companies of the time, to amass much needed resources. They also secured a place on the ocean planet of Manaan, thanks to the native Selkath neutrality, and so were able to export the healing agent kolto to their forces.

As the Sith's conquest continued unchecked, worlds began to secede to the Sith invasion fleet voluntarily, either out of fear of what had happened to Telos IV or because they believed that the corrupt and ineffectual Republic was finally about to fall.

- The Rakatans:

Revan also dominated and manipluated an ancient warrior race called "Rakatans" in their home world of "Lehon" and gained control of the Ancient Rakatan Temple, which held the secrets of the Star Forge and consisted of a very powerful Shield Generation Mechanism for the Star Forge to protect it from the external threats.

He alone wiped out an entire army of Black Rakatans and gained their ultimate respect and eliminated their threat to the Ancient Rakatan Temple. He also manipulated the knowlegeable "Elder Rakatans" to learn about the secrets of Ancient Rakatan Temple and tricked them to provide him entry in to the Temple. In this manner Revan established a strong foot-hold in Lehon planet by posting many Dark Jedi and Droids to protect his new and important post from external threats in Lehon.

Revan's unique creation:

- HK-47 Assassination Droid: HK-47 was a Hunter-Killer assassin droid and Jedi hunter built by Revan towards the end of the Mandalorian Wars. The Droid was constructed to kill those who Revan believed would destabilize the Galaxy. HK-47 proved to be one of the most successful assassination Droids in Star Wars history.

Revan's Notable Kills:

- Mandalore The Ultimate: The leader of the Mandalorians in KOTOR period and most powerful warrior among the Mandalorians. Despite being very powerful and heavily armed, he was no match for Revan in a single combat.

- Yusanis: The most powerful Echani Warrior ever known. His precognition capabilities were even superior to that of Jedi and he never lost a fight in fight in his life until he challenged Revan. Despite his own impressive abilities, he fell to the powers of Revan.

Additionally Revan killed many Mandalorian warriors, Jedi, Politicians, Rakatans and Sith Opponents.

Sources:

- Wookieepedia
- Chronciles of the Old Republic
- The New Essential Chronology
- KOTOR Game

Continued ...

The near destruction of the Jedi Order:

- Corruption of thousands of Jedi:

Revan alone was responsible for corruptiong thousands of Jedi during the Mandalorian Wars.

As the two supreme commanders' fleets clashed in a frenzied battle, Revan finally arrived at Malachor and entered the fray, but he was late and the Mandalorian fleets were far from defeated. In that moment, he drew upon the Sith energies haunting the surface below to manipulate the Jedi fighting in orbit. Taking advantage of the raw emotions spawned by combat, he overpowered them and drew them to the dark side. With renewed vigor, his forces pressed the attack. They soon achieved a stalemate and then slowly began to push the Mandalorian fleet back towards Malachor V.

And

The Chronicles: Revan is able to draw upon the dark side energies of the planet below and use it during the battle, destroying the Mandalore and ending the Mandalorian threat. Simultaneously, more and more Jedi, unable to ignore the power emanating from the planet below, become corrupted by its influence.

- Founder/Creator of Sith Assassins:

The Sith Assassins were a sect of covert Force sensitive killers secretly founded by Darth Revan on Malachor V during the Mandalorian Wars. During and after the Jedi Civil War, the Assassins' primary purpose was to kill or capture Jedi. Upon successfully incapacitating a Jedi, the captive would be tortured until they fell to the dark side or died by the hands of elite Sith operatives trained in the art of torture and temptation, such as Atton Rand. By this subtle method of capture and conversion, the ranks of the Sith Assassins swelled as the number of Jedi decreased.

Revan was the mastermind behind creation of Sith Assassins.

- Near collapse of the Jedi Order:

The Jedi Civil War started by Revan was so disastrous and costly for the KOTOR period Jedi Order that Master Kriea said this:

"The Jedi Civil War destroyed the Jedi. By the war's end, barely a hundred Jedi remained. Many fell in battle… and many more were seduced by Revan's teachings."

Thus Revan was highly responsible for the near destruction of the Jedi Order of his age.

Important role in Star Wars History:

Revan's holocron hidden in the Ancient Rakatan Temple proved to be very useful for Darth Bane several centuries later. His holocron was the source of inspiration of Rule of Two for Bane and this ideology changed the order of the Sith and revolutionized them resulting in once again rise of power of Sith through Darth Sidious.

This is what Revan said regarding Rule of Two: (Note: I am not revealing full text here)

Spoiler Warning: (Revan's words to Bane) "This is also the reason there can only be one Dark Lord. The Sith must be ruled by a single leader: the very embodiment of the strength and power of the dark side. If the leader grows weak another must rise to seize the mantle. The strong rule; the weak are meant to serve. This is the way it must be. My time here is ended. Take what I have taught you and use it well."

Sources:

- Wookieepedia
- Chronicles of the Old Republic
- Star Wars Legacy 0
- KOTOR II Game
- Darth Bane POD

Need I say more?

Hahaha, Alankles, think what your talking about. Look in my sig and think carefully.

Darth Revan? Okey, well, first, I will post his accomplishments before you play as him in KOTOR.
The Republic was getting pwned like crazy, and the jedi order did nothing to stop it. However, Revan and Malak joined in.
2 Jedi Knights, (Note: THey were not jedi masters yet) turned the battle into a landslide for the republic. Isn't that just amazing? Not even people like Yoda or Obi Wan could do such a thing, even through their efforts in the clone wars, the seperatists managed to hold on. It was also said that Revan was a very charismatic person, and when the time came rallied ALOT of jedi and soldiers to his side. People that were war heroes, like Carth's mentor in the mandalorian war. I don't think someone can just do that with words, he must have used the force, which shows us how skilled he is in the force.

Revan found all the star maps, twice, which isn't an easy task. He survived when half of his cruiser was blown up... He killed a Krayt dragon, he is stronger than Malak... I mean comeone people, enough said. Darth Revan is one of the most powerful sith ever known...

Originally posted by allfg
Sexy, no offense, but I think you should leave the Revan arguments to AC.

Noobaris, no offense, but I think you shouldn't even bother debating anymore. You've been pwned more times than Jenna Jameson's insides.

I could read that in the chronicles SW legend, save the Revan appreciation for another time and pick up on my arguments if you have anything to debate me over. Seriously, do you think listing character sheets helps your argument in anyway?

I'm not saying Revan isn't powerful, I'm not saying he isn't great - relative to his era and the mythology - I'm saying you tend to overrate the character.

From his cameo in POD to his accomplishments as a Sith before Malak betrayed him. I don't care that you think he's the greatest, address the points you wish to argue against and save me the unnecessarily long character sheet.