Now, if this were a space battle - then I absolutely agree. Sadow would be owned. But, this isn't. Palpatine's intense advantage of the Imperial Starfleet will not be of use to him. Neither will the usual numerical advantage.
Read my words. Palpatine is going to be owned. Unless Wesker manipulates the situation to compensate for the insane weaknesses that Sidious has.
Sadow. For. The. Win.
Thank you. Very plausible.
1. Like I said I honestly don't think Sids will even let himself get within ten feet of Sadow, so his getting owned by him seems unlikely.
2. Big whoopdy do the Massasi are empowered by the dark side. The clones took out every Jedi in the galaxy, and *gasp* they were empowereed by the force to!!! I don't think the force is going to help them that much when they get shot multipel times in the chest, especialy by an AT-ST. What are they going to do throw rocks at it? Once again the battle of endor was BS as much as the storm troopers and their bad aim. The Empire invaded and completely enslaved the entire wookie race, yet they lost to a small band of Ewoks? More movie bull crap.
3. Ok so Sadow is on the defensive, I will admit that it definatly is easier to defend than to attack, but Sids sends in his AT-St's first than it will take a logn long time for the Massasi's rocks to penatrate their armor, giving the little storm troopers time to enter the building and, in the confusion, get in formation and blast away. Have you ever seen Lotr Return of the King? Rememebr the part were the big city is getting sieged( Minas Tirith I think) and the Orcs suceeded in opening the main gate, remmeber when they send in the trolls first to aborb all the fire, than the orcs pour in? Well it'll be the same case here.Sids will send in the AT-ST's first to absorb the fire and attention while the storm troopers file in and mow down the opposition. I play Starcraft alot so I know a little bit about tactics.
Hydra -
1. Sidious doesn't need to get within ten feet of Sadow. Sadow can use a Force Storm just like Sidious. Sidious will die, one way or another.
2. Again, Sadow can handle AT-ATs if his men can't. If Sidious can handle fleets, lol, then Sadow can handle mere AT-ATs. Again, in melee combat - Stormtroopers have no chance.
3. Watch LOtR again. The humans at Minis Tirith were horribly outnumbered, and they still held their own. Sidious's men are equal in numbers to Sadow. Sadow is more powerful. That point is moot. So, I'm glad you play Starcraft. It does not make you a master tactition.
IKC -
I'm not arguing moot points. I'm arguing valid ones. And, we both share the same belief. Sadow owns Sidious.
Tdtd -
Palpatine's not a master military tactition. If he was, he wouldn't need to have the twelve Grand Admirals or Vader to lead his military forces. I'm sure he's not stupid when it comes to tactics, but Sadow was a warlord. If Palpatine is a strategist at anything, it'd be political. Not warfare.
1. I said Sadow most likely knows a force storm, but it's not definite. We also don't know how powerful his force storms could be. Explain how Sidious would die.
2. Logical fallacy.. Just because Sidious can handle fleets, all of a sudden Sadow can handle AT-ATs? I'm not saying he can't but you're not providing a logical argument.
3. Huh? I don't play starcraft..Sadow is more powerful and? Sidious is smarter, so what's your point?
Sadow was an incompetent warlord whose only soul power was illusions, in terms of war. Sidious is more rational.
Originally posted by tdtd
1. I said Sadow most likely knows a force storm, but it's not definite. We also don't know how powerful his force storms could be. Explain how Sidious would die.
2. Logical fallacy.. Just because Sidious can handle fleets, all of a sudden Sadow can handle AT-ATs? I'm not saying he can't but you're not providing a logical argument.
3. Huh? I don't play starcraft..Sadow is more powerful and? Sidious is smarter, so what's your point?Sadow was an incompetent warlord whose only soul power was illusions, in terms of war. Sidious is more rational.
Firstly, the above was written for Hydra. As shown when I typed "Hydra" above it. But, having said that:
1. Wait, you made it sound as if it were definate. You were confident enough that Sadow knew it that you argued with me about it earlier today. What the hell happened? This coupled with the fact that Janus has given proof that Sadow has performed a nigh similar feat makes me believe your original thought.
2. Well, then I suppose it was a logical fallacy that just because Sidious could do Force Storms, all of the Ancient Sith could. 😉 But, having proved that at least Sadow can, and that he has the power to make a Star go supernova, I'm positive that he can handle AT-ATs.
3. Again... it was for Hydra.
4. Sadow is grotesquely powerful, and has more experience in wars than Sidious. I'd probably put them on equal footing. But by some chance that Sidious is militaristically smarter, it won't be enough to save him because Sidious's intelligence on warfare isn't superior to Sadow by a landslide.
1. It's not definite because we never see him actually conjure one up but based on his ability to destroy a star with some form of lightning it is logical to assume that he knows it.
2. What? Sidious could produce force storms, but it was derived from the ancient sith, who said all of the ancient sith could do it what are you talking about? I never said Sadow couldn't handle AT-ATs but your argument was illogical when you said because Sidious can take A, Sadow can definitely take B.
3. ok
4. Maybe not but Sadow is angry and irrational when he doesn't achieve the results he wants, while Sidious is calm and makes wiser decisions. Sadow might be leagues above Sidious but I'd leave it to him to do something stupid to ruin the battle. And we need to get Revan into this conversation
Originally posted by tdtd
1. It's not definite because we never see him actually conjure one up but based on his ability to destroy a star with some form of lightning it is logical to assume that he knows it.
2. What? Sidious could produce force storms, but it was derived from the ancient sith, who said all of the ancient sith could do it what are you talking about? I never said Sadow couldn't handle AT-ATs but your argument was illogical when you said because Sidious can take A, Sadow can definitely take B.
3. ok
4. Maybe not but Sadow is angry and irrational when he doesn't achieve the results he wants, while Sidious is calm and makes wiser decisions. Sadow might be leagues above Sidious but I'd leave it to him to do something stupid to ruin the battle. And we need to get Revan into this conversation
1. Look at Janus's post. If that is not a Force Storm, it's something similar to it.
2. WTF??! Okay. You just said that it derived from the Ancient Sith. Well guess what Naga is! An ANCIENT SITH. But my point was that we had no proof that it derived from Ancient Sith until Janus showed me that comic clip. My argument was not illogical; because we've now shown that Sadow possesses a rudimentary Force Storm ability (which still has the power to make a star go supernova) which means he can wipe out AT-ATs!
4. Jesus! When Sidious gets angry, he tends to do stupid things like underestimate his opponents (even when they are stronger than he is: Mace and Yoda) - so that means that he has an exceptional chance of doing it again. And go watch ROTJ and ROTS if you think that Sidious is always calm. Trust me. He explodes.
2. And my point is your first argument consisted of "If Sidious can take out A, Sadow can certainly take out B" which I pointed out to be a logical fallacy. You corrected it the second time around.
4. My point is Sidious is more intelligent and rational than Sadow, and he can use that to his advantage.
Originally posted by tdtd
2. And my point is your first argument consisted of "If Sidious can take out A, Sadow can certainly take out B" which I pointed out to be a logical fallacy. You corrected it the second time around.
4. My point is Sidious is more intelligent and rational than Sadow, and he can use that to his advantage.
2. I did nothing to correct it. I elaborated on it. In this situation, if Sidious can take out A, than yes, Sadow CAN take out B.
2. And my point is that Sidious has frequent moments when he goes into an intense rage - which usually follows a failure of his, and then another failure occurs right after he gets angry. Sidious is arrogant. He often underestimates his opponents, even when they are more powerful than he is.
I think IKC really nailed it. In retrospect, it was silly to allow Sadow to have command of a unit, since he can whip up illusions with ease. However, in a temple that's under attack, can he maintain that concentration? When Gav shot his meditation sphere, Sadow was so busy thinking of ways to pwn Gav he stopped concentrating, and lost the battle at that point. Could this be an instance where Sadow cannot use the illusion tactic?
Originally posted by IKC
Honestly, Thrawn would have a much better chance in this battle than Sidious, even though he's a naval commander.
Agreed.
Thrawn's a tactical genius; in my opinion, the best in the entire SW history. Sidious is clever, but he's not a military (whether it be ground or naval) tactical prodigy. Which is why he relied on Thrawn during the Empire's reign. At best, he's a decent politician with luck on his side (most of the time).
Sidious has no chance.
Originally posted by tdtd
The question is could Revan and Sidious understand what Sadow is doing and capitalize on it?
Hell, I have doubts that if Revan and Sidious tag-teamed that they could overcome Sadow. Revan and Sidious are just hideously weak compared to him. Revan's tactical genius supercedes any one else in this battle, and Sidious's technology supercedes everyone else's - but Sadow is just so powerful. . . Still don't know.
IKC what do you mean no? Don't make your hatred for Revan appear evident and give reasons why. Yes we're talking about the tactical genius of Revan which exceeds that of Sadow and Sidious. Sadow being superior to both of them in force combat doesn't necessarily give him a victory. In fact his irrationality when things go wrong is what would put him and his Masassi below Revan and his army and Sidious and his.
It's not just that Sadow is the better Force-user; but it's also the fact that his powers would be an ungodly advantage to him. He can create illusions; he can summon Force Storms; and he's got amped up regular Force powers. Neither Revan nor Sidious could contend with Sadow in combat.
Revan individually can't take him, neither can Sidious. Sidious just sucks, lol. Sorry - it took me forever to come to that conclusion, but hey, this is all a learning experience. Revan's genius is the only thing that spares him from suckdom, too.