Kit Fisto and Obi-Wan(ROTS) Vs Darth Vader(RODV) and Ventress(Obsession)

If Ben is stronger than Yoda (I'm about to listen to it now) then it opens up two possibilities.

1) Vader is weaker than Ben, Ben could have owned him in that duel and chose not to.

or

2) Vader himself is more powerful than Yoda.

Both seem a bit unlikely, the first one seems like Kenobi was aiming for a moral victory instead of a physical one, but he should have killed Vader when he had the chance... It was actually kinda stupid of him. The second one puts Vader on top of basically everyone except the Emperor himself... I think that's odd too.

EDIT: GL said "at this point, the strongest good guy". This could be very well referring to the fact that Yoda had not been introduced yet.

Ben Kenobi is not more powerful than Yoda, but he is still pretty damned powerful. For those that think that ROTS Kenobi could beat ANH Kenobi in a duel, I prefer to think that ANH is the better swordsman and more powerful in the Force, but far less flashy and far more practical. Sure, he's a bit rusty, but that's not to say he's any less skilled.

For Vader vs. Kenobi, I would think that they were on par, like in the ROTS fight. Kenobi either couldn't bump off Vader because they were too equal this time, or because Kenobi needed longer to kill him, but didn't exactly have much time when the others are ready to blast out of there.

Darth Kabbala appears and pwns everyone. QED.

If Ben is stronger than Yoda (I'm about to listen to it now) then it opens up two possibilities.

1) Vader is weaker than Ben, Ben could have owned him in that duel and chose not to.

or

2) Vader himself is more powerful than Yoda.

EDIT: GL said "at this point, the strongest good guy". This could be very well referring to the fact that Yoda had not been introduced yet.

Ben Kenobi is not more powerful than Yoda

For Vader vs. Kenobi, I would think that they were on par, like in the ROTS fight. Kenobi either couldn't bump off Vader because they were too equal this time, or because Kenobi needed longer to kill him, but didn't exactly have much time when the others are ready to blast out of there.

"Escape is not his plan."

Obi-Wan never planned to leave the Death Star. he planned to be "killed" on the Death Star so he could become a Force Ghost. That's why he lost.

Well REX, if you think ANH is on par with Vader, then you're correct. But, wouldn't RotS Kenobi be able to defeat Vader with relative ease? I'd like to think so. So if RotS Kenobi can take Vader, he could most likely take Ben as well.

Don't forget that while with he age he MIGHT have been a bit out of shape (MIGHT as we have seen people like Dooku as old as him in pretty good shape), soresu is not a demanding form. It requires little energy and more patience and skill with a saber. He more likely mastered it to a higher degree.

He had mastered Soresu to its highest degree in ROTS, one of the reasons why Anakin wasn't able to penetrate Obi Wan's defenses, but over the years, he might have deteriotated physically, however its more than likely he grew stronger in the force.

the time inbetween ROTS and ANH, is rather long so we have nothing but speculation on what Obi Wan could've done in the time.

He had mastered Soresu extremely well but not to its highest degree

Numan, you're a dumbass. Obi-Wan IS the Soresu master of the PT era. If you master something, you MASTER IT TO ITS HIGHEST DEGREE. Don't just assign your own opinion to things. Now, go get banned.

You are such an idiot. Luminara mastered it too. That doesn't necessarily mean that they were both as good as eachother with Soresu.

Right. Do you actually have evidence of Obi-Wan NOT mastering his own form to its highest degree, or is this more "Numan sez, therefore it must be true" nonsense?

Wesker just accept that you were wrong. Mastering the form does not mean completely perfecting it otherwise everyone who mastered a form would be invincible.

Only in Numan's world does the level of master have a different meaning.

Apparently you're missing the point- you can master a form (And mastery implies just that- you've learned all there is to know), but whether or not that form is complete enough to make you invincible is a whole different question. You can master Shii-Cho, but does this mean you win every battle? No. Don't be ridiculous, Numan. Obi-Wan is noted by Mace Windu himself as being THE best Soresu practitioner of the entire era, and considering the guy hasn't been shot once since he adopted the form, I'd say he's mastering its principles pretty damn well. It's an anti-blaster form, not a saber combat form.

Yes he is the best Soresu practitioner of the PT era but he has still not mastered it to the fullest.

Again, prove up or shut up. Mace Windu, SIC of the order and a verified master of MANY forms claims that Obi-Wan is the best Soresu practitioner of the era and a bonafide master. You insisting there's suddenly "degrees" of the title of Form Master is no more canon than you insisting that after-images aren't from speed.

Firstly there are degrees to mastering a form. By your logic Dooku who was the only duelist to master makashi should have been invincible in saber dueling. Yet he still lost to Anakin and was losing to Yoda.
Secondly I wasn't denying that afterimages are from speed but was denying whether the things were actually really afterimages.

Originally posted by thetruepower
Firstly there are degrees to mastering a form. By your logic Dooku who was the only duelist to master makashi should have been invincible in saber dueling. Yet he still lost to Anakin and was losing to Yoda.
Secondly I wasn't denying that afterimages are from speed but was denying whether the things were actually really afterimages.

Firstly, reading comprehension is your friend. You need to PROVE that there are degrees of mastering a form, since I've pointed out that you can master the form, but it doesn't guarantee invincibility. Which brings us to your point- you say "By your logic, Dooku should have been invincible"... No, that's NOT my logic at all. Way to drop the ball.

Second, I read what you posted, Numan. You amuse me with your self contradictions.

Wesker there definitely are degrees to mastering a form. Luminara Unduli and Obi-Wan Kenobi both mastered Soresu, yet Mace Windu stated that he had mastered it more fully then she had.

Originally posted by Wesker
Only in Numan's world does the level of master have a different meaning.

Apparently you're missing the point- you can master a form (And mastery implies just that- you've learned all there is to know), but whether or not that form is complete enough to make you invincible is a whole different question. You can master Shii-Cho, but does this mean you win every battle? No. Don't be ridiculous, Numan. Obi-Wan is noted by Mace Windu himself as being THE best Soresu practitioner of the entire era, and considering the guy hasn't been shot once since he adopted the form, I'd say he's mastering its principles pretty damn well. It's an anti-blaster form, not a saber combat form.

I agree with the points, but are you sure that Soresu is only good against blasters? I thought that was just one of the KOTOR balancing things for the different styles. Obi-Wan has actually never been bested in ROTS in saber combat, when he fought Dooku it was with the force + that Obi-Wan was actually using offensive to work as a team with Anakin instead of being defencive, I'd say it's pretty well effective with saber vs saber too....

No he is wrong. There are different levels to mastering something. You can never stop improving.