Darth Revan vs. DN Kyle Katarn

Originally posted by Darth Katarn
Nobody surpasses yoda not even like.And prove to me wikipedia is not a canon source

As a Jedi Yoda would probably be the second greatest Jedi, only behind DN Luke. But there are many Sith that surpass Yoda..

Ancient Sith (Ragnos, Simus, Sadow, Kressh, etc)
Exar Kun
Freedon Nadd
probably Kyp Durron in terms of Raw force powers
Revan
perhaps Bane

Hmm...I have to say I don't really know who's going to win here.

Revan:
- prodigy in lightsaber combat and force use (as it seems - possibly using a unique style)
- 3 years of war experience (Mandalorian Wars)
- defeated pretty nasty opponents (Yusanis, Mandalore, Malak)
- eventually gathered tons of knowledge about the force (Jedi, Malachor V, Korriban)

Kyle:
- gone through Imperial training and became mercenary / spy (argueably the best mercenary in the Galaxy since he was able to best Boba Fett as well as Dark Troopers in shoot-outs)
- 4 years of Battle experience (Galactic Civil War)
- also prodigy in lightsaber combat and force use (proven by the fact that he defeated 7 Dark Jedi in lightsaber and force combat - when Jerec was a fully trained PT Jedi Knight / Master partly powered up by the Valley of the Jedi - without actual training)
- fell to the Dark Side and was redeemed (MotS)
- defeated Desann and a variety of Dark Jedi in JK 2 (possibly got a nice boost in power by stepping into the Valley of the Jedi's core beam)
- became Council Member of the NJO as well as the foremost battle master (training people like Jaden Korr).
- if we count the Dark Side Ending of JA in he was able to force push a Jedi through an entire room and survive a blast of Ragnos sceptre which we have seen tearing down walls before
- also possibly using a unique style or several blends of styles
- another 5 years of war experience added through the war against the YV.

I don't know who's more powerful here but Kyle has by far more experience compared to Revan (combat experience, war experience, force training, lightsaber training and use of both force and lightsaber) although Revan has an advantage in knowledge (although I have to say that Kyle had access to knowledge that was stored on Ossus, pretty much all of the PT era knowledge and some knowledge from the pre-Ruusan era).

I think this would be a pretty tough fight. Revan might manage to come out alive (if he pulls some uber Sith powers out of his sleeves) but unless we get more knowledge about Revan, Kyle might also be able to win this. I really don't know.

Nice points Nai but the game play isn't canon, and even if we do consider the gameplay canon, it's always the lightside that's canon, never the darkside.

Excellent points, Borbarad. Revan was known more for his command over The Force, while Kyle is famous for his Lightsaber Skills. Revan is like the Anakin Skywalker of his era(Unincluding Personality!), while Kyle is like the Count Dooku or Cin Drallig of his era. Either way for me. In terms of Force, I say Revan. But with Lightsaber, I have to say Kyle. Unlike Ulic, Kyle had ABSOLUTELY NO lightsaber training. Now that is remarkable!

There's nothing that puts Kyle about Revan in lightsaber combat though. He's inferior to Revan.. Remember, gameplay isn't canon.

I'm not getting how people reach Revan > Kyle in lightsaber combat from the "evidence" provided here.

But the Skilled Dark Jedi ARE! Defeating Seven Dark Jedi, one powered by the valley of the Jedi, in lightsaber combat is incredible, you can't ignore that.

Originally posted by tdtd
There's nothing that puts Kyle about Revan in lightsaber combat though. He's inferior to Revan.. Remember, gameplay isn't canon.

But the Skilled Dark Jedi ARE! Defeating Seven Dark Jedi, one powered by the valley of the Jedi, in lightsaber combat is incredible, you can't ignore that.

Sorry for double posting.

Because Janus, Revan was known as a lightsaber prodigy, and him defeating Malak whether Malak was powered by the star forge or not, is more of a testament to his power than Kyle defeating 7 dark jedi...

Except the fact that Kyle defeated them without traning (or with minor traning)...

Ok, that's like saying Ulic is uber powerful with a saber because he defeated somebody without the force. How do you plan on quantifying Kyle's power with training as opposed to without?

Ulic already knew how to handle a saber very well, Kyle didn't. This talks strongly for both his saber and force abilities. And I'm not saying he is uber powerful, but seriousley, would you put Kyle in Dark forces 1 above Kyle in DN? I woulden't....So Kyle did a feat that is comparable to Revan's greatest feat, and this was with minor traning, he could only have grown more powerful since then, + that he got more power from the Valley of the Jedi..

Originally posted by kamikz
Ulic already knew how to handle a saber very well, Kyle didn't. This talks strongly for both his saber and force abilities. And I'm not saying he is uber powerful, but seriousley, would you put Kyle in Dark forces 1 above Kyle in DN? I woulden't....So Kyle did a feat that is comparable to Revan's greatest feat, and this was with minor traning, he could only have grown more powerful since then, + that he got more power from the Valley of the Jedi..

Indeed. Revan was already well trained, AND the one of the strongest Jedi Knights(or the strongest) of his time. Did you see Revan fighting Malak, or even Bandon right when he got his lightsaber? Kyle had no training whatsoever, and did a remarkable feat for someone with no blade-to-blade training. It's nothing short of amazing, especially when The Valley of the Jedi increased his power. Kyle relearned and mastered his powers - both light and dark - in only weeks. Before even becoming a Jedi Master, he killed Desann who had become approximently as powerful Luke Skywalker because of the Valley. If it did all of that for Desann, how much more for Kyle Katarn? Kyle, I think, Takes this, when it comes to lightsaber combat.

Right, so you guys just listed some feats for Kyle... Great... Now again I ask you, how are you going to quantify his power from the time where he had no training to when he was a "lightsaber prodigy", and how, if you can even quantify it, are you going to put him above Revan?

Okay, so in Jedi Outcast we see Kyle defeating Desaan.

Revan and Malak: Bwahahahahha!

Its not like defeating Desaan actually means anything...

When it come to Force, I'd have to for Revan towards Revan.

As for zephiel7, Desann was able to defeat Luke Skywalker, which also means he could have killed, at least, any one Jedi Master the academy had in a Force and Lightsaber battle. Killing Desann could have saved the lives of many Jedi.

And tdtd, I put him above Revan because many of Kyle's greatest opponents were more powerful than him, while all of Revan's enemy's were weaker than him. Even if Revan was stronger, Kyle has many skills to fall back on. for example His fighting style is very violent - literally. In JKJA, Kyle will literally pick up Jaden and toss him, punch Jaden twice in the gut and once in the head, and also puts Jaden in head-locks. Even if Revan was better, Kyle's.....unusual fighting style may catch Revan off gaurd long enough to kill him. I Don't, however think he has a chance when it comes to Raw Force strength. Revan will win there.

Revan at his peak is alot more powerful then some people give him credit for. I really dont think Kyle has a chance(my opinion).

Originally posted by tdtd
There's nothing that puts Kyle about Revan in lightsaber combat though. He's inferior to Revan.. Remember, gameplay isn't canon.

Wow. And because gameplay isn't canon, all that we know of Revan's lightsaber skills is that he defeated Yusanis (a non force user), Mandalore (another non force user) and Malak (who was always inferior to him). And he did that with years of training. The rest he did was done by him + an unknown amount of friends.

Kyle:
- took down Jerec and his 6 comrades (Jerec was a fully trained PT Jedi Master meaning he spend his entire lifetime from childhood on training with the lightsaber and the force) without actual training
- he challenged Mara Jade (while still he didn't pocess any Jedi training vs Mara "Assasin trained by Sidious" Jade)
- he took down Desann (+ half an army of Dark Jedi - this is not avoidable in the game) still without training
- the he had a nice "conflict" with the Yuuzhan Vong and with all the people that did hang out in the Jedi Academy they still chose Kyle to become their "foremost battlemaster" and lightsaber trainer

So how is Revan superior to Kyle in terms of lightsaber combat when Kyle is a prodigy too and had much more experience fighting against other force users as well as fighting against "normal" people ?

Hmm.. The fact that he took down hundreds of dark jedi whether he had help from two others or not, the fact that he took down Malak who could have been powered by the Star Forge.

Your insane! Even in gameplay you can't kill even ONE hundred Dark Jedi. So Malak was powered by the Star Forge...Jerec's Raw Force Power was empowered permenently increased by the valley of the Jedi.