Meh...I did miss the entire fun here...
Originally posted by Janus Mariustdtd, where does it say or show that the second edge of the blade definately gave Kun the edge over Vodo? Especially since he uses the exact same hammer blow as he does on the previous page:
See that top upper left panel? Same situation: Vodo holding his staff horizontally, blocking a hammer blow from Kun. Difference? After the Vodo declared he would not join Kun, suddenly that same hammer blow (Which does NOT take advantage of a double blade) cuts RIGHT through Vodo's staff. Absolutely nowhere does it say "Kun's second blade gives him power over momentum!". So yeah, QED.
Have a close look, Janus. Especially on the upper picture.
On the upper left he apparently give Vodo's staff a far more harder strike than that what breaks the staff later. And then have a good look at the upper right picture...
"This is not the end, Exar Kun. You and I will fight again. Perhaps not for a long time, but I will defeat you."
Actually that pretty much sounds as if Vodo did throw the fight seeing that he couldn't win it that way - just to come back later and defeat Exar finally (which he did in the JA trilogy). I doubt that all over a sudden Exar (who is already sweating and apparently gave Vodo harder strikes before) "gets serious" and slashes through Vodo's staff which is "more powerful than a lightsaber" as stated in DLotS #1 using a less harder strike than that which he just used before.
Vodo simply couldn't know that Exar would kill him with the next blow (getting serious) with the exception for the situation that he wanted Exar to do that and therefore gave up. Otherwise that little monologue there is pretty much senseless.
Say that was true, and say that Kun was serious, it still puts him a fair bit above Vodo, he knew he couldn't win, so therefore he gave up, thus it still means Kun was and is the better duelist.
When you say that he wasn't serious, he seemed to be toying around before he activated his second blade, however once he did, he was serious and Vodo didn't last long.
Originally posted by Deception
Say that was true, and say that Kun was serious, it still puts him a fair bit above Vodo, he knew he couldn't win, so therefore he gave up, thus it still means Kun was and is the better duelist.
Is ANH Vader "a fair bit" above ANH Obi-Wan ?
Vodo knew he couldn't win but that doesn't actually mean he would have lost that fight fast. He would have lost, yes, but fast ?
When you say that he wasn't serious, he seemed to be toying around before he activated his second blade, however once he did, he was serious and Vodo didn't last long.
Is this why you have already sweat running down his face before he activates the second blade (see the upper image on the right side of the second picture) ? When somebody "toys around" with a person it usually doesn't make them sweat. This also doesn't happen in a rather fast fight.
In regards to your first points i agree.
However i'll place an example, even after playing 2 minutes of a Rugby Union match, i sweat, yet that is by no means the limit of my body, i can cope and eventually reach my peak by around the 30th minute. Ok say Kun was serious, but by no means was he unleashing his full potential, nor was he even at his "peak" of his dueling ability.
In regards to my example, i'll also state that by no means are you "serious" within the first few minutes, in general you don't exhaust yourself in the beginning rather, you play at a rate in which you can see how the game goes and save your actual skills when it matters. ie half-way to the end of the game.
If by serious you mean, from the moment you step into the match you are intent on defeating the enemy without knowledge of just playing around, then i would agree. But if by serious you mean Kun was giving his all in the beginning, then i would disagree.
Originally posted by Deception
In regards to your first points i agree.However i'll place an example, even after playing 2 minutes of a Rugby Union match, i sweat, yet that is by no means the limit of my body, i can cope and eventually reach my peak by around the 30th minute. Ok say Kun was serious, but by no means was he unleashing his full potential, nor was he even at his "peak" of his dueling ability.
In regards to my example, i'll also state that by no means are you "serious" within the first few minutes, in general you don't exhaust yourself in the beginning rather, you play at a rate in which you can see how the game goes and save your actual skills when it matters. ie half-way to the end of the game.
If by serious you mean, from the moment you step into the match you are intent on defeating the enemy without knowledge of just playing around, then i would agree. But if by serious you mean Kun was giving his all in the beginning, then i would disagree.
Well...you aren't a Jedi. 😉
I don't think that he gave Vodo all he could from the beginning, but the sweat on his face indicates that he didn't take a "cakewalk" either why duelling Vodo. I mean...compare that to Dooku in AotC. Dooku:
- tossed Anakin around like a ragdoll
- fought Obi-Wan for at least a minute
- fought Anakin for another minute
- force duelled Yoda
- lightsaber duelled Yoda (for about 30 seconds)
And I didn't see sweat on his face. He "toyed around" with Anakin and Obi-Wan and then fought somebody with equal / superior skill without sweating and normally Exar should have more force power and a better physical condition compared to Dooku. Yet, Exar was sweating even before he ignited his second blade.
I won't doubt that he is better than Vodo but I don't believe he's vastly superior to his former master, especially not if you consider the fact that Vodo did put him on his ass quite effortless just a few months before.
@IKC:
What a crock of shit, Nai.
Translation: "I won't look at the actual source right in front of my eyes because it might disturb my precious opionion about Kun's general uberness."
Yeah. Vodo gave up. That's why he dies attempting to block Exar Kun's attack.
Is that why we see him stopping the fight while giving Exar a lecture about how he will return in a long time just to defeat his former student ? Is this why he knows that Exar will kill him with just the next strike when he blocked apparently harder strikes of Exar before ? Is this why all over a sudden Exar is able to break the staff that is "more powerful than a lightsaber" with a lightsaber ?
You're deluded and biased. I'm completely through with your unsupported assumptions and your general bullshit.
Uh-hu. If you want to see a deluded and biased person have a look at the next mirror.
You're completely through with my "unsupported assumptions and my general bullshit" ? Fine. Then I hope that you'll stop molesting me with your blatant Kun/Ulic fanboyism, senseless post-ROTJ character bashing and general ignorance of the actual source material where it contradicts your infallible opinions, Mr "Kun vs Ragnos can go either way and Ulic is far superior to Yoda in terms of lightsaber combat" IKC.
Is that why we see him stopping the fight while giving Exar a lecture about how he will return in a long time just to defeat his former student ?
Stopping the ****ing fight? Jesus Christ, you really do see what you want to see.
How is holding up the staff in an attempt to block "stopping the fight?"
By that logic, Kun "gave up" because he casually stepped back and ignited the second blade.
Is this why he knows that Exar will kill him with just the next strike when he blocked apparently harder strikes of Exar before ?
So, any reason you've pulled the notion that Vodo's blocked "harder strikes" out of your ass? Oh, right, because you're the new Lightsnake, don't understand logic, and rely on unsupported assumptions.
Is this why all over a sudden Exar is able to break the staff that is "more powerful than a lightsaber" with a lightsaber ?
Oh right, it couldn't possibly be because Kun overrode his Force defenses or even just powered through with physical strength. Vodo had to have given up. Nai, God of Star Wars, decrees it.
How's it feel to argue like Lightsnake, anyway? I think I'm just going to quote my responses to him, given you're making his deluded, biased, and downright ignorant arguments.
Originally posted by IKC
2) Oh yes Lightsnake, he gave up. That's why in the last panel his arms are still holding up his staff in a defensive position and Kun just powers through his staff, which Vodo made "more powerful than (a) lightsaber." Vodo knew he was beaten but he didn't give up as you assert. See, your assertions beg for proof, and there is none.
Originally posted by IKC
2) There is no evidence that one needs to prepare oneself for death, Lightsnake. Do you think Odan-Urr had a real chance to prepare himself? How about Arca? Certainly Arca had more of a chance than Odan, but not much more. Your point is groundless, there is no evidence to support it. Vodo's blocking in his final act, to try and spare his own life. Prove that Vodo gave up, for the final time.
Nai, perhaps you'd better look into one of these:
Just a thought.
Since you're making a throwback, I'll do it too:
Lying fanboys can't save the OT/Post-OT era from sucking dick.
Originally posted by IKC
Stopping the ****ing fight? Jesus Christ, you really do see what you want to see.How is holding up the staff in an attempt to block "stopping the fight?"
By that logic, Kun "gave up" because he casually stepped back and ignited the second blade.
Uh-hu.
How many indications of any movement do you see in this picture ?
How many indications of any movement do you have in the close-ups of Kun's and Vodo's faces just below that ?
Oh...can it be that the right answer is none. Because, as it seems, they aren't moving but just standing there while Vodo gives Kun a nice lecture ? Yes ? So have they stopped fighting ?
So, any reason you've pulled the notion that Vodo's blocked "harder strikes" out of your ass? Oh, right, because you're the new Lightsnake, don't understand logic, and rely on unsupported assumptions.
Unsupported assumptions...aha...
Is this why Exar gave him that nice little swing here which doesn't brake the staff but makes Vodo nearly losing his weapon and lean backwards:
How can a downward slash coming from right in front of the user can have more kinetical energy than that swing with a greater radius applied from the side downwards ? Unless you have some picture showing that Kun moved his blade over his head before breaking Vodo's stick to gain additional momentum it's physics that pretty much destroy you little idea and not my personal opinion.
Oh right, it couldn't possibly be because Kun overrode his Force defenses or even just powered through with physical strength. Vodo had to have given up. Nai, God of Star Wars, decrees it.
Oh. It could be that possibly Kun overrode Vodo's force defense.
Can you please tell me why Kun did it just there after we have Vodo talking about how he will die now and how he will come back after a long time to finally defeat Kun ?
But let's again just ignore half of the source material to keep our nice little opinion:
"But if I win you agree to join the Sith brotherhood and work at my side." Apparently Exar went into the fight with the idea to convert his master first. Can you please tell me, why he didn't just brake Vodo's staff before if he had the ability to do that ? Disarming Vodo would have given him the chance to either capture him (trying to convert him) or kill him if he wanted that. But he didn't do that - maybe because he just wasn't able to do it ?
And of course let's just ignore Vodo's monologue with pretty much indicates that he simply gave up but instead assume that Exar all over a sudden has the idea to brake Vodo's staff which could have led him to his goal (converting, capturing, beating Vodo) seconds after the fight started in the very same moment Vodo told him that he will return and finally defeat Kun...
Instead of assuming that Vodo simply gave up his force defence to do what he said he will do.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
But I see...Occam's Razor doesn't apply any longer when it works against you, huh ?
How's it feel to argue like Lightsnake, anyway? I think I'm just going to quote my responses to him, given you're making his deluded, biased, and downright ignorant arguments.
Nice quotes. Did you see me arguing that Vodo used some mystical method to prepare for his death and because of that he wasn't focusing on the fight any longer and Kun was able to kill him ? No.
And there is no proof he gave up ? Did you see this picture ?
What is he doing there ? He just acknowledges defeat and tells Kun that he will come back one day to defeat him. What is this for you ? Not giving up ? The only way to make this more obvious would be making him say "Exar Kun. If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can even imagine".
And of course he was holding his stick up. Did you just miss Kun's lightsaber being put onto it. How should he have moved that thing aside ?
Lying fanboys can't save the OT/Post-OT era from sucking dick.
I wonder how a fight between two TOTJ characters affects the PT/Post-OT era ? And I wonder even more how the guy that does refute to read past-ROTJ stuff would know anything about said era ?
Just a little advice: Lack of knowledge and the use of cheap polemics doesn't make you win debates.
@Janus:
And Nai, if you think Vodo blocking the same way he blocked before is giving up, you need to stop drinking before you post. WTF?
Where is he blocking the same way ? They just stand there - not moving - than Kun kills him. Where is the block there ? Because he is holding his stick up the same way he did the entire time they stand there which he couldn't have moved aside anyways because having Kun's lightsaber put on top of it ?
Did Obi-Wan throw the fight in ANH ? By the logic you apply here he didn't because he still had his lightsaber in his hands and ignited...
Hey look, Nai! Vodo blocking with his staff horizontally!
Hey look... notice that in the middle two panels the defending parties aren't moving. OMg... I guess they didn't really block! Exar Kun gave up! But fortunately, Vodo didn't take the bait and hit his blade full on. Immediately afterwards, Vodo surrenders to this awesome display of power, and he gives up. But Kun hits the staff instead!
Seriously, how deluded can you be?
Hey look! He's doing it again! The universal sign of Vodo-surrender! Or is it a block? Zomg! I have no clue!
But there's no motion. It MUST be a surrender pose!
Here it is, Nai: Vodo GIVING UP. He's in the universal bloc- erm... surrender pose. He's said his goodbyes, and everything. Why, even though he's given up, Exar Kun is still stuck in that crazy battle mode and smashes right through the staff that is in his blade's way.
You're totally right... This is EXACTLY like ANH Obi-Wan putting his saber straight up and Vader hacking him in half from the side. Exactly. Why didn't we all think of this sooner?
Pull your head out of your ass, Nai. This is ridiculous.
Janus just pwned the shit out of you, Nai.
Originally posted by Borbarad
And I wonder even more how the guy that does refute to read past-ROTJ stuff would know anything about said era?
Oh, right. I refuse to read it.
I suppose that's why I have these on hand:
From top to bottom, left to right:
Specter of the Past
The Last Command
Planet of Twilight
Champions of the Force
(Dark Apprentice goes here)
Jedi Search
Dark Force Rising
etc. etc. I'm sure you can read.
Balance Point and Darksaber
Oh yeah, Nai. My library is really lacking. No way am I well-read in the material at hand.
Thanks for giving me another excuse to post this:
Better look into it.
Vodo's staff was said to be more powerfull than a lightsaber was it not? Then how the hell can Kun break it?
Nai is right, Vodo (when he says all about that they will meet again) is only standing there, heck, he even let's Kun hold his lightsaber OVER his staff and he doesen't do a shit about it. And as you can see, Vodo is not even holding the staff over his head, it's at his chest. If you are to parry a strike from above you lift you're weapon above you're head. Like when someone strikes you from the sides, you have to put you're sword beside the body to do a successful parry, and Obi-Wan in ANH didn't do this, same as Vodo did not hold it above his head, he let it hit him.....they do not need to be in the same pose.
And the most logical explanation is that Vodo did not longer support his staff with the froce but instead let Kun cut through it, what logic is there that Kun can smash something stronger than a lightsaber with brute strenght?
And since Kun cut him from head to toe he is bound to hit his staff to, why would he care to avoid it?
Originally posted by kamikz
Vodo's staff was said to be more powerfull than a lightsaber was it not? Then how the hell can Kun break it?Nai is right, Vodo (when he says all about that they will meet again) is only standing there, heck, he even let's Kun hold his lightsaber OVER his staff and he doesen't do a shit about it. And as you can see, Vodo is not even holding the staff over his head, it's at his chest. If you are to parry a strike from above you lift you're weapon above you're head. Like when someone strikes you from the sides, you have to put you're sword beside the body to do a successful parry, and Obi-Wan in ANH didn't do this, same as Vodo did not hold it above his head, he let it hit him.....they do not need to be in the same pose.
And the most logical explanation is that Vodo did not longer support his staff with the froce but instead let Kun cut through it, what logic is there that Kun can smash something stronger than a lightsaber with brute strenght?
And since Kun cut him from head to toe he is bound to hit his staff to, why would he care to avoid it?
*Jumps to save Kamikz from being run over by an angry mob of SW nerds*
