DE Sidious vs Ulic Qel Droma and Yoda

Started by IKC9 pages

Great sig, Janus.

I'll have to remember that using a stick in an overhead move that looks suspiciously like a block is actually the inter-galactic sign of surrender.

Busted!

Huh ? I didn't take IKC "insults" personally. I've spent 5 years in online-gaming forums and that I had more insulting stuff thrown at me by people I knew even less. Nothing I would worry about.

But I love how IKC, in contrary to the "german noob" with the "language problem" can't distinquish "english" words from greek ones. Really IKC: "polemic" comes from the greek "polemikós" meaning "martial". Using polemics in terms of debates mean fight a different opinion. The user of polemic doesn't want consense but instead wants to win the rhertocial agon (see "eristics" for details). Thus you and Janus are commiting a straight line of multiple arguments consisting of pure ignoratio elenchi (or red herrings or - seeing that this is a SW board - the "Chewbacca Defense"😉.

And I don't want a straight line of insults here - they aren't needed. Just let me adress my points and think about it:

a)
To make that clear. I don't want to argue that Exar Kun is superior to Vodo in terms of duelling - otherwise Vodo would have won the fight. I want you to keep that in your mind before start bashing my points again.

b)
What I doubt is that Kun was clearly superior to Vodo throughout the entire fight. You can see them both launching attacks when Kun is fighting with one blade, both are sweating and that fight looks pretty even before Kun ignites the second blade to "make the fight more interesting". He was crossing the limit he gave himself before because he couldn't overcome Vodo with just one lightsaber and the style he used (which he clearly wanted to do). From this point on he is using all he can and Vodo pretty quickly sees that he can't win any longer.

c)
This is what led me to the conclusion that Vodo gave up. Really: Have a look at the pictures. You see at least one of them moving in every picture with two exceptions: The picture right before Kun ignites his second blade and the picture where Vodo gives his little lecture.

I doubt that the artist just "forgot" to put signs of movement in those two pictures where you have them (blurs / lines) in all other pictures. It's pretty clear that the fight was interrupted when Kun ignited his second blade as you can see him standing there with Vodo not being close to him right in the picture below. And after Vodo gives his monologue you can see them staring at each other in close-ups. So we have no indication of movement which makes me suggest that there in fact isn't any movement.

d)
Please have a look at the "entire picture" (or the entire situation) and not only at the fight. Vodo had Nomi, Sylvar and Cay standing right beneath him even before the fight started. If he wanted to stop Kun by any means why didn't he let them attack Kun. I know that Ulic was there too but I doubt that Ulic and Kun could have sucessfully beaten Vodo, Sylvar, Nomi and Cay in a 2 vs 4 situation.

But instead of doing so he say that he "must do that on his own" and even when he sees that he can't win he didn't request help from the others but instead accepted defeat to finally defeat Kun after "a long time" somewhere in the future. Which leads me to the following point.

e)
I'm pretty sure you two know enough about fighting: What does it mean when a duellist acknowledges and accepts defeat before he really is defeated ? That is giving up.

I know that Vodo is standing in the same position he uses to block Kun's strikes before and I'm not going to argue that because it's pretty obvious but really: Do you think that the guy you constantly rate more skilled than Yoda couldn't have dodged that swing if he wanted to especially since he knew that Kun has enough power to brake his staff ?
He just didn't see any reason to continue the fight since he knew that he couldn't have changed the outcome of the fight (being killed) and so he decided to accept this defeat.

I didn't want to argue Kun's overall combat skills here. He is the best duellist of his time and he would have killed Vodo anyway but this fight wasn't really fought to the end.

So let me put my observation like this:
Kun (using all he can) > Vodo
Kun (limiting himself to one blade) = Vodo (which is damn impressive considering how Vodo wtfpwned him just months before when he just used one blade)
Ulic = Kun with one lightsaber (as we have seen the narrator stating that "none of them can claim an advantage with a lightsaber) but Kun still pocesses more knowledge / power (hence receiving the title of the Dark Lord).
Meaning Vodo > Ulic (and please...Vodo say so himself when Ulic says Cay has to kill him in order to stop him, Cay answers "I can't." and Vodo comes in saying "I will."😉

And since we were talking about Ulic > Yoda here (in terms of lightsaber combat only): I doubt that Ulic is good enough to rival Yoda's lightsaber skills and force mastery. According to Shadow Hunter: "Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin and Depa Billaba - all outstanding fighters - did attack him. Master Yoda wasn't armed and didn't seem to have moved more than a metre and this at a slow, measured step. Still none of the three had been able to touch him."

I doubt that Ulic has more saber mastery than a Vaapad master and two other Council Members combined. Not that it would even matter in this fight here: Ulic and Yoda wtfpwn Sidious - I doubt that Luke (even with help by Leia) all over a sudden developed more lightsaber skill than Ulic or Yoda and while DE Sidious is probably able to defeat them individually (after hard fights) or drop a force storm on them (maybe - but Ulic will probably move in for the kill fast enough to prevent him from doing that) he is tooled in lightsaber combat. Badly.

Excuse me now - I will go out and have some drinks with my friends to fill the gap between my cognition and reality regarding to SW comics.

I've said this all before last week, exactly in that order sorta, but it remains to be proven that Kun needed that second blade for anything other than aesthetics