Anakin got lucky in that fight which tarnished the great Counts reputation. On any other day Dooku would of pwned, just like he pwned Obi-Wan. And might I point out that Dooku wasnt going all out in that fight. If he had been out to kill Anakin the fight would have been finished in a matter of seconds.
Originally posted by Rampant oxPalpatine was once a respected and esteemed politician whose popularity won him the Chancelorship of the Republic. This is the kuniving bastards that lured the beloved Dooku to the Sith in the first place, the *sshole who twisted the galaxy around his evil finger in a more sinister way than any other before him, worse than what Dooku could ever do. Not to mention he was also a powerful Sith Lord, moreso than Dooku I hear.
I must say I adore the sith but I do hate Vader and Sidious. I agree with your comments about THEM but the comment about Dooku. Thats pretty nasty. You should remember that Dooku himself was once I highly ranked and much respected member of the jedi order. Shouldnt have some credit for that? Then add in the fact he is a powerful sith lord which makes him by far my fav character!!!
And to think, this is the guy whom almost everybody except the Jedi loved. Now that's character.
All the Sith are SOB's to me though.
Originally posted by Tangible God
Palpatine was once a respected and esteemed politician whose popularity won him the Chancelorship of the Republic. This is the kuniving bastards that lured the beloved Dooku to the Sith in the first place, the *sshole who twisted the galaxy around his evil finger in a more sinister way than any other before him, worse than what Dooku could ever do. Not to mention he was also a powerful Sith Lord, moreso than Dooku I hear.And to think, this is the guy whom almost everybody except the Jedi loved. Now that's character.
All the Sith are SOB's to me though.
Im not saying that I like Sidious. Quite the opposite actually. Dooku was the best in the SW universe during his time as a jedi and after he became a sith lord. He didnt want to control the galaxy, he was just doing what Sids told him. But I think if he decided he wanted more power than he already had (and thats alot of power) he could have just continued to increase the CIS with more star systems and overthrown the Republic anyway. And Dooku was loved by everyone in the jedi order, while he was a jedi and after he had left. Sids was never liked by the jedi. Sids needs to act like a pathetic old man to gain allies while Dooku can just use his diplomatic tongue. I think this means that Dooku has more character. Overall Dooku would be a far better ruler than that bastard Sidious. Everybody likes and trusts Dooku while all Sids can do is sit in his oversized chair on top of the Death Star.
Finally about you saying all sith are sobs. I have to agree with you on that except for Dooku. George Lucas didnt make the Sith look particularly spectacular. I would still rather be a sith than a jedi but in the movies the jedi are far cooler than the sith (except for Dooku)!
Originally posted by Rampant oxDooku never did "qualify" as a Sith, in persona anyway. He neither looked, sounded, even acted much like a Sith. That was always one of his advantages. And no doubt he would have been an excellent ruler. However, once it became widely known that he was a leading a droid army in a Seperatist movement to crush the Republic, then he would have been feared and hated. Certainly that would keep a populace in line, but that's exactly the attitude of Palpatine that inspired a rebellion, no matter his charisma.
Im not saying that I like Sidious. Quite the opposite actually. Dooku was the best in the SW universe during his time as a jedi and after he became a sith lord. He didnt want to control the galaxy, he was just doing what Sids told him. But I think if he decided he wanted more power than he already had (and thats alot of power) he could have just continued to increase the CIS with more star systems and overthrown the Republic anyway. And Dooku was loved by everyone in the jedi order, while he was a jedi and after he had left. Sids was never liked by the jedi. Sids needs to act like a pathetic old man to gain allies while Dooku can just use his diplomatic tongue. I think this means that Dooku has more character. Overall Dooku would be a far better ruler than that bastard Sidious. Everybody likes and trusts Dooku while all Sids can do is sit in his oversized chair on top of the Death Star.Finally about you saying all sith are sobs. I have to agree with you on that except for Dooku. George Lucas didnt make the Sith look particularly spectacular. I would still rather be a sith than a jedi but in the movies the jedi are far cooler than the sith (except for Dooku)!
Also, there is no substantially strong evidence to prove that Dooku was more powerful than Sidious. There are tons of "what ifs," and the whole controversy surrounding the Dooku-Yoda-Sidious saber triangle is not enough to dispel the fact that Sidious was the master, the one behind EVERYTHING, and the one came out both victorious and ALIVE. Fact remains that Dooku was inferior to Sidious, and likely always would be even if he had lived.
Still... cool character nonetheless.
Originally posted by Tangible God
Dooku never did "qualify" as a Sith, in persona anyway. He neither looked, sounded, even acted much like a Sith. That was always one of his advantages. And no doubt he would have been an excellent ruler. However, once it became widely known that he was a leading a droid army in a Seperatist movement to crush the Republic, then he would have been feared and hated. Certainly that would keep a populace in line, but that's exactly the attitude of Palpatine that inspired a rebellion, no matter his charisma.Also, there is no substantially strong evidence to prove that Dooku was more powerful than Sidious. There are tons of "what ifs," and the whole controversy surrounding the Dooku-Yoda-Sidious saber triangle is not enough to dispel the fact that Sidious was the master, the one behind EVERYTHING, and the one came out both victorious and ALIVE. Fact remains that Dooku was inferior to Sidious, and likely always would be even if he had lived.
Still... cool character nonetheless.
I think that a Sidious vs Dooku fight would be a spectacular fight to watch. It pains me to admit that Sids probably was better seeing he was the master and all but I dont think that he would win by much in a duel. Dooku saber skills are superior to anyones but his force abilities are nothing compared to Sids. I think 7/10 times Sidious would win but Dooku would be victorious in the other three. I also think that a lot of Sidious plans hinged on the ability of Dooku. It was Dooku who found the template for the Clone Army and it was Dooku who convinced systems to leave the Republic. If Sidious hadnt taken Dooku in to be his apprentice there is a good chance that there wouldnt be a galactic empire.
When you say that Dooku wasnt a sith I think you are right to an extent. I think that he became a sith but didnt have the evilness to make him as sith like as Sidious. He definetly had the traits of the sith, cockyness being one of them but he just wasnt overly evil like sith are meant to be. He works this to his advantage however, being able to stay under the eye of the jedi but also convert thousands of systems to his cause. But when all is done and said the great Count Dooku is still the best and most important character in the Star Wars saga!!! 😄
Originally posted by Rampant oxNo doubt that the Empire would be quite like it was without Dooku. But still, Palaptine was no fool, and didn't entrust one minon with all his plans. IF Dooku hadn't been seduced in the first place, it's likely Sifo Dyas would have just taken over, though perhaps not as smoothly as with Dooku. If Palpatine could manipulate his way to Chanellor of the Republic, then I don't think anything would hinder his rise to Emperor. ANakin wouls still have been an easy target.
I think that a Sidious vs Dooku fight would be a spectacular fight to watch. It pains me to admit that Sids probably was better seeing he was the master and all but I dont think that he would win by much in a duel. Dooku saber skills are superior to anyones but his force abilities are nothing compared to Sids. I think 7/10 times Sidious would win but Dooku would be victorious in the other three. I also think that a lot of Sidious plans hinged on the ability of Dooku. It was Dooku who found the template for the Clone Army and it was Dooku who convinced systems to leave the Republic. If Sidious hadnt taken Dooku in to be his apprentice there is a good chance that there wouldnt be a galactic empire.
When you say that Dooku wasnt a sith I think you are right to an extent. I think that he became a sith but didnt have the evilness to make him as sith like as Sidious. He definetly had the traits of the sith, cockyness being one of them but he just wasnt overly evil like sith are meant to be. He works this to his advantage however, being able to stay under the eye of the jedi but also convert thousands of systems to his cause. But when all is done and said the great Count Dooku is still the best and most important character in the Star Wars saga!!! 😄
Originally posted by Tangible God
No doubt that the Empire would be quite like it was without Dooku. But still, Palaptine was no fool, and didn't entrust one minon with all his plans. IF Dooku hadn't been seduced in the first place, it's likely Sifo Dyas would have just taken over, though perhaps not as smoothly as with Dooku. If Palpatine could manipulate his way to Chanellor of the Republic, then I don't think anything would hinder his rise to Emperor. ANakin wouls still have been an easy target.
Dooku must have been entrusted with all the plans except for the one, the one where he was going to be killed off.Dookus no dumbass and if Sids was keeping something it wouldnt take him long to find out. Plus Dooku was entrusted with the plans to the Death Star, the emperors favourite toy. He must have been extremely trusted by Sidious to be given that sort of info.And I would rather think that if Sids hadnt found Dooku as his apprentice the he would never have become the Emperor. If it wasnt for Dooku there would be no Galactic Empire, no Death Star, no Darth Vader and probably still a jedi order.
Who was Sifo Dyas btw?
Dyas was the one of the other fallen Jedi, of the Lost Twenty to which Dooku was the last. He was the one who Palpatine ordered to comission the Clone Army. As an act of loyalty, Palpatine had Dooku kill Dyas and take over the Clone project.
Palpatine was a smart man and had been planning this for some time, he would have anticipated setbacks. If Dooku turned out to be a dud, then Palpatine would have found another way of coming to power, albeit it might've taken longer.
And Palpatine didn't tell Dooku EVERYTHING. I can't recall any source that said that Dooku was behind the conception of the Death Star, so Palpatine would have known about it even without Dooku. And then there's the whole Plagueis conspiracy in which either Plagueis or Palpatine could have been the true father of Anakin, thus ensuring Anakin's rise as Dark Lord, Dooku or not. Dooku was not privy to the most secretive of Palpatine's intentions, nor was he the most powerful. Everything revolved around Palpatine's decisions, not Dooku's.
Originally posted by Tangible God
Dyas was the one of the other fallen Jedi, of the Lost Twenty to which Dooku was the last. He was the one who Palpatine ordered to comission the Clone Army. As an act of loyalty, Palpatine had Dooku kill Dyas and take over the Clone project.Palpatine was a smart man and had been planning this for some time, he would have anticipated setbacks. If Dooku turned out to be a dud, then Palpatine would have found another way of coming to power, albeit it might've taken longer.
And Palpatine didn't tell Dooku EVERYTHING. I can't recall any source that said that Dooku was behind the conception of the Death Star, so Palpatine would have known about it even without Dooku. And then there's the whole Plagueis conspiracy in which either Plagueis or Palpatine could have been the true father of Anakin, thus ensuring Anakin's rise as Dark Lord, Dooku or not. Dooku was not privy to the most secretive of Palpatine's intentions, nor was he the most powerful. Everything revolved around Palpatine's decisions, not Dooku's.
Thanks for the info on Dyas. I understand that Dooku didnt create the Death Star but he certainly had knowledge of it. In AOTC he had the plans for the Death Star and could have destroyed them whenever he wanted to. And you do raise a good point on Anakin and his father theory. I will change what I said earlier and say that Anakin would still eventually become the Dark Lord of the sith. Although maybe he would become the apprentice to Dooku. Who knows. Then together they could overthrow Sids. I still feel though if Dooku did not co-operate with Palpatine his rise to power would have taken alot longer. And if Dooku had actually opposed Palps. Palpatine would have been finished if Dooku had opposed him. Dooku could reveal Palps true identity to the Jedi. He then would have kept using the CIS to pummel the republic with the jedis help. So in theory Dooku had alot of control of Sidious but didnt want to use it.
When you say that Dooku didnt have much time left on his ticker Revolver Ocelot, I think you are talking crap. Dookus age didnt effect his abilities at all and there was certainly no evidence that he was close to death. Look at yoda for example. He id hundreds of years older than Dooku and he is the greatest jedi of his time!
But Dooku would have wtf pwned Luke and wiped out the alliance to give the Emperor complete control of the galaxy in 20 years. Vader was to pussy to kill Luke, not smart enough to beat the alliance and only lasted for another 20 odd years anyway. So it would have been better for the Emperor to choose Dooku over Vader. The only reason I can think of to why the Emperor chose Vader is that he was scared of Dooku. He couldnt manipulate Dooku like he could Vader and Dooku had better lightsaber skills than Sids. So give Dooku another 10-15 years to brush up on his force abilities and I think Dooku would have overthrown the Emperor.
Originally posted by Rampant oxPossibly.
But Dooku would have wtf pwned Luke and wiped out the alliance to give the Emperor complete control of the galaxy in 20 years. Vader was to pussy to kill Luke, not smart enough to beat the alliance and only lasted for another 20 odd years anyway. So it would have been better for the Emperor to choose Dooku over Vader. The only reason I can think of to why the Emperor chose Vader is that he was scared of Dooku. He couldnt manipulate Dooku like he could Vader and Dooku had better lightsaber skills than Sids. So give Dooku another 10-15 years to brush up on his force abilities and I think Dooku would have overthrown the Emperor.
Key-word there. Again, there's no solid evidence to support the theory of Dooku's superiority in saber skills. Remember that Palaptine would not have let his apprentice become more powerful than him. He wasn't like the past Sith, HE wanted power, noone else could have it. If Dooku was progressing at a rate that Palpatine would sweat at, he would move quickly to have Dooku "removed."
And it's unkown as to how absorbed Dooku was with the Dark Side, so it's unkown if he would have used it to prolong his life. He was already in his eighties afterall. And also, with age, doesn't guarantee power. He may have for all we know declined in strength. Again, "may have."
And don't forget that he wanted a MORE powerful apprentice, his reason for choosing Anakin. Palpatine turned Dooku to the Dark just like he did with Anakin, though Dooku did have a more justified reason. As well, just because Dooku was the CIS leader doesn't make him the best general. He was used to fighting the Republic which would become the Empire, so who's to say he would be used to the Alliance style of fighting?
He originally chose Anakin for his potential; if Anakin became fully trained, his power would be immense.
Vader was good at what he did; be a "right hand man". Dooku is a natural leader, and thus wouldn't really have good cohesion in an Empire where there was one supreme ruler. And Palpatine did not want this ruler to be Dooku, so in a way you are right.
However, you are wrong in another sense. Dooku and Palpatine wouldn't mesh as well as Palpatine and Vader (or Dooku and Vader). They wouldn't make a better Empire. Vader was elite "muscle". Dooku wouldn't be found cleaning up Rebels and traitors by hand, but order others to do it. He's a thinking man, a political idealist, whereas Vader was a brutal warrior who'd Force Choke you if you piss him off.
Dooku was still awesome, but not "muscle" in a sense.
I agree and disagree with both your comments. Dooku wuld have been able to take out the Alliance because he had already led a war against the republic. This means he knows about military tactics. Vader has no clue about military tactics. Dooku would also thrive if he was head of the Empire because he knows of their way of fighting. He did lead his own army against them and knows what tactics the Empire uses. I agree about the fact that Palps would remove Dooku if he thought the was getting to powerful. But I hate Palpatine. All he does is sit in his massive chairs and act old and pathetic to get people to like him. Dooku actually does something. Overall I think if Dooku had wanted to he could have played Sids and taken the galaxy for himself. He doesnt rule by fear like Sidious does and thus could have decreased the threat of the Alliance. It would also make for a far better OT if it was Dooku planning to overthrow Sids.
If Dooku does not rule by fear than how will he rule. No one wants to to be ruled by a Sith really, well some. The Jedi would make moves to take out Dooku just as qickly as they did to take out Palps, faster actually since Dooku declared his loyalties as opposed to being subtle. Also I highly doubt Dooku was a batter tactition than Thrawn, seeing as Dooku took very heavy losses half of the war, he had more troops but could not take out the repub, as opposed to Thrawn who had barely any forces, yet managed to take Courascant out of commision and take over a few planets as well.
I highly doubt Dooku could plan to get rid of Sids w/o Sids knowing of it. Sideous would forsee or sense Dooku's intentions and immediately have him killed. The only reason he didn't forsee vaders betrayel was because it was a split second descision. Vader was still loyal to Sids up to the moment were he cracked from seeing his only son suffering at the hands of his master. No, I don't think Dooku would be able to control the Empire as well as Sids did, nor overthrow him.
Sidenote: Dooku's having fought the republic will not help him at all when fighting the Rebels. It's alot easier to fight a constant enemy that is always in the same place, as opposed to fighting a small group of people who are always moving around to differant locations. A good example of this is America's war in Iraq. America has more troops and better technoligy, but is getting it's ass kicked because they have no idea were the enemy is, were they will atatck from next, or what they will attack.
Originally posted by Rampant oxPalpatine did far more than you give him credit for. He may have sat around alot, but did nothing? Who do you think ran the Empire? Vader followed orders, but he definetely did not RUN it.
I agree and disagree with both your comments. Dooku wuld have been able to take out the Alliance because he had already led a war against the republic. This means he knows about military tactics. Vader has no clue about military tactics. Dooku would also thrive if he was head of the Empire because he knows of their way of fighting. He did lead his own army against them and knows what tactics the Empire uses. I agree about the fact that Palps would remove Dooku if he thought the was getting to powerful. But I hate Palpatine. All he does is sit in his massive chairs and act old and pathetic to get people to like him. Dooku actually does something. Overall I think if Dooku had wanted to he could have played Sids and taken the galaxy for himself. He doesnt rule by fear like Sidious does and thus could have decreased the threat of the Alliance. It would also make for a far better OT if it was Dooku planning to overthrow Sids.
And no doubt Dooku would have been a fine leader, it was what he was gunning for. And I'd really like to see proof of his abilites in which he could "play Sids." Palpatine was a smart, cunning and powerful man. He's not about to let his subordinates undermine him or so openly threaten his seat of power.
And due to the Count's more "passive" nature, when compared Palpatine at least, it's true the Alliance would not have been as motivated. But he was still a figure in which the Rebels could rally around, he could still provide a reason for Rebellion.
And if somehow he DID conquer the Republic, dispose of Palpatine, and take Anakin under HIS wing....
Well, according to the Butterfly Effect, there is a substantial possibility that Anakin may not have been "Mustafared" by Obi-Wan, and it is a canon fact that Anakin, if he hadn't been put into the suit, would have been twice as powerful as Palpatine at HIS most powerful. He would have easily, and quickly disposed of Dooku himself, and yes it's true: Anakin was no great general, so the Empire in which Anakin ruled would crumble and collapse very quickly.
OK then. Dooku could leave Palpatine and continue to build up the CIS. Once he has enough systems to his cause he would then overthrow the Republic and declare himself supreme ruler like Sids did but with an army of droids instead of an army of clones. Sids couldnt do anything about this at risk of the jedi finding out who he really was. If Dooku was lucky he could steal the plans for the Death Star as well. Now he is the head of an army that he created himself, so he will be as good at controlling them as Sids was at controlling the Empire. Plus he would have an apprentive, probably Sev'rance Tann, and kill Luke. He wouldnt pussy foot around like Vader and Sidious did, so he wouldnt get beaten by Luke. There is also the possibility that Anakin would get seduced to the darkside by Dooku rather than by Palps.