Its not fair

Originally posted by Rampant ox
OK then. Dooku could leave Palpatine and continue to build up the CIS. Once he has enough systems to his cause he would then overthrow the Republic and declare himself supreme ruler like Sids did but with an army of droids instead of an army of clones. Sids couldnt do anything about this at risk of the jedi finding out who he really was. If Dooku was lucky he could steal the plans for the Death Star as well. Now he is the head of an army that he created himself, so he will be as good at controlling them as Sids was at controlling the Empire. Plus he would have an apprentive, probably Sev'rance Tann, and kill Luke. He wouldnt pussy foot around like Vader and Sidious did, so he wouldnt get beaten by Luke. There is also the possibility that Anakin would get seduced to the darkside by Dooku rather than by Palps.

"Dooku could leave Palpatine and continue to build up the CIS. Once he has enough systems to his cause he would then overthrow the Republic and declare himself supreme ruler like Sids did but with an army of droids instead of an army of clones."

^This is what he was trying to do in the first place, didn't work too well.

Palaptine was going about doing as he pleased and the Jedi STILL didn't discover his true identity until HE chose to reveal himself. Again, all Palpatine's doing.

HOW could Dooku steal the Death Star plans when they're with Palpatine?

Dooku did not know how to play to Anakin like Palpatine could. Anakin was seduced to the Dark Side by a trusted friend and mentor, not the enemy of his beloved Republic and traitor to the Jedi. Dooku would not be able to turn Anakin.

Everyone here could beat Luke, so that's irrelevant.

Exactamundo.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Hmm, there are too many "what ifs" here. There is no evidence to back up such claims.

"Dooku could leave Palpatine and continue to build up the CIS. Once he has enough systems to his cause he would then overthrow the Republic and declare himself supreme ruler like Sids did but with an army of droids instead of an army of clones."

^This is what he was trying to do in the first place, didn't work too well.

Palaptine was going about doing as he pleased and the Jedi STILL didn't discover his true identity until HE chose to reveal himself. Again, all Palpatine's doing.

HOW could Dooku steal the Death Star plans when they're with Palpatine?

Dooku did not know how to play to Anakin like Palpatine could. Anakin was seduced to the Dark Side by a trusted friend and mentor, not the enemy of his beloved Republic and traitor to the Jedi. Dooku would not be able to turn Anakin.

Everyone here could beat Luke, so that's irrelevant.

I do realise there are alot of what ifs there but its still possible. You started by saying that Dooku was trying to declare himself ruler over Palpatine with his army of droids. Dookus droid army was only there so that Palpatine could get emergency powers and his own army of the republic. Dooku wasnt trying to beat the republic, the droids were merely there as a tool for Palpatines emergency powers. What im saying is if Dooku actually took complete control of the droids and used them to overthrow Palps then there is a good chance the droids would win.

You then say that Dooku couldnt steal the plans for the Death Star. Well he was given them in AOTC. He could easily have made copies then or not given them to Palpatine at all. Your point about Anakin I agree with though. As diplomatic as Dooku is I change what I said earlier and say that Dooku wouldnt be able to persuade Anakin to join him. But I dont think it would make any difference. Anakin is powerful, but not powerful enough to take on Dooku and his whole droid army by himself.

i really doubt sids left his one and only copy with dooku. remember sids never really trusted Dooku to be fool proof. he probbaly had a few copies of his own.

Im not worried about Sidious having a copy of his own. Without an army behind him to help build it it is useless to him. What I was trying to say was that Dooku could have managed to get a copy of his own and make his own Death Star if he overthrew Sidious.

How would he over throw Sideous before Sids suspected treason and and sent someone or a bunch of someones to go kill Dooku? Like a detachment of clone troopers? Also I have a feeling that the droid army didn't REALY belong t Dooku. They belonged to the Neimodeans, who only lisetned to Sids really. Dooku was just a puppet.

Originally posted by Blaxican_Hydra
How would he over throw Sideous before Sids suspected treason and and sent someone or a bunch of someones to go kill Dooku? Like a detachment of clone troopers? Also I have a feeling that the droid army didn't REALY belong t Dooku. They belonged to the Neimodeans, who only lisetned to Sids really. Dooku was just a puppet.

Two things that I have to say about your comments above. I think that the great Count Dooku can beat a bunch of clone troopers. He could probably beat hundreds of clone troopers at once for that matter. And secondly, I disagree with your statement about the Neimodeans. I think that they trusted Dooku completely and would do whatever he tells them to do. In ROTS Nute Gunray himself says to Greivous: Without Count Dooku, I have doubts about your ability to keep us safe.

But the overall point I am trying to get across is that Dooku had far more control over the war than people know. He could easily swayed it in anyones direction had he wanted too but thought that Sidious was a loyal master and so he had to be a loyal apprentice. Had he wanted to take the galaxy for himself I dont think it would be to difficult. He was an extremely skilled sith lord who could outclass anyone in saber combat and had enough political influence that he gathered thousands of star systems to his cause.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Once he has enough systems to his cause he would then overthrow the Republic and declare himself supreme ruler like Sids did but with an army of droids instead of an army of clones.

^ Wishful thinking.

"Clones can think creatively. You will find that they are vastly superior to droids." -Lama Su

If Dooku betrayed Palpie, his Droid Army would last about as long as a snowman in Las Vegas.

hm..is the snowman alive?

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
^ Wishful thinking.

"Clones can think creatively. You will find that they are vastly superior to droids." -Lama Su

If Dooku betrayed Palpie, his Droid Army would last about as long as a snowman in Las Vegas.

Clones are a smarter army but Dookus droids would win by shear numbers. Clones have to be grown. I know that their growth cycle is sped up but droids are far quicker and easier to produce. Plus I read somewhere that one on one a super battle droid is superior to a clone trooper but the clone troopers can use tactics that outsmart the droids. Or Dooku could just attack the Kamino cloning centre.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Clones are a smarter army but Dookus droids would win by shear numbers. Clones have to be grown. I know that their growth cycle is sped up but droids are far quicker and easier to produce. Plus I read somewhere that one on one a super battle droid is superior to a clone trooper but the clone troopers can use tactics that outsmart the droids. Or Dooku could just attack the Kamino cloning centre.

(I copied and pasted earlier by the way) With the exception of actually trying to overthrow Palpatine, Dooku WAS trying to build up a massive Droid Army, he WAS trying to kill all the clones he WAS trying to overthrow the Republic.

This is utterly ridiculous, but it's canon and must be accepted: It took only 1.2 million clones to defeat a droid army that was at least a thousand times that number. Even if Dooku turned on Palpatine, he'd still have to deal with the clones, seeing as Palpatine commanded their total loyalty. Not just that, but Dooku would have to be the one to kill Palpatine...himself. Which is a VERY tall order. He'd have to somehow, miraculously, hide his intentions from Palpatine, find him without alerting any attention, and then actually going about killing him. This is no simple feat. This is bordering on impossible here.

And again, there is NO substantial evidence to prove that Dooku could kill Palpatine in a fight, saber or Force powers.

But if Dooku left Palpatine and revealed to the jedi Palps true identity as dark lord of the sith then Dooku would have a massive advantage. The jedi would take out Palpatine for Dooku. This woldnt be done quickly however. It will be the same situation as they had trying to capture Greivous. Palpatine would keep eluding them. While the jedis full attention is on destroying Palps and the republic is in dissaray with their leader having gone into hiding, this would be the perfect chance for Dooku to win. He would keep pummeling the Republic but without the jedi resisting him now. Eventually Dooku would come out the victor.

But I understand there is alot of what ifs and possibilities here. The point I am getting at is Dooku had alot of power but he chose to use it on helping Sidious. If he had decided to help the jedi I think the Jedi would have won. He kept helping Sidious which is why Sidious won. If he had gone out to get the galaxy for himself then I think he would won.

Your absolutly right. The Jedi would take out Sids. than they would take out Dooku as well.

Hmm, the threat of revealing Palpatine would be an advantage. However, remember again, that the clones answered DIRECTLY to Palpatine, unbridled loyalty by a massive army would definetely be a key weapon. He may even order all clones to stick with the Jedi, pulling Order 66 while the Jedi were still fighting Dooku and now trying to find Palpatine.

Not to mention that it'll be hell for the Jedi during such a time. Now the Republic is without a leader and the Jedi must retain control of the Senate, difficult work there seeing as how most Senators shared Palpatine's secret view of the Jedi being corrupt and power-hungry. It wouldn't be a smooth transition.

Speaking of which, who's to say that the Jedi and the Senate would believe the traitorous Dooku's claim of Palpatine's true identity? The Senate especially.

exactly. it could be a trap. And i'm sure Dooku in all his...I would say genius..but no, Ill think of a wprd, anyhoo Dooku can create some false videous of Sideous, a few false records. The jedi would suspect a trap and not go for the bait.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Clones are a smarter army but Dookus droids would win by shear numbers. Clones have to be grown. I know that their growth cycle is sped up but droids are far quicker and easier to produce. Plus I read somewhere that one on one a super battle droid is superior to a clone trooper but the clone troopers can use tactics that outsmart the droids. Or Dooku could just attack the Kamino cloning centre.

^ 🤨 🤨 🤨 🤨

Dude, take Dooku's dick outta your mouth--he's not God. The robots would get WTFpwnd by the Clones.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
I think that a Sidious vs Dooku fight would be a spectacular fight to watch. It pains me to admit that Sids probably was better seeing he was the master and all but I dont think that he would win by much in a duel.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Hmm, the threat of revealing Palpatine would be an advantage. However, remember again, that the clones answered DIRECTLY to Palpatine, unbridled loyalty by a massive army would definetely be a key weapon. He may even order all clones to stick with the Jedi, pulling Order 66 while the Jedi were still fighting Dooku and now trying to find Palpatine.

Not to mention that it'll be hell for the Jedi during such a time. Now the Republic is without a leader and the Jedi must retain control of the Senate, difficult work there seeing as how most Senators shared Palpatine's secret view of the Jedi being corrupt and power-hungry. It wouldn't be a smooth transition.

Speaking of which, who's to say that the Jedi and the Senate would believe the traitorous Dooku's claim of Palpatine's true identity? The Senate especially.

I think that the jedi council would be smart enough to beleive Dooku if he told them Palps true identity. Remenber they were having serious doubts about his intentions throughout the movies even going as far as spying on him. I also think that Dookus droid army would be unimportant for the jedi or the clones if Dooku told the council about Sids. Palpatine would the need to use all his resources to take out the jedi before they can regroup and launch a massive attack on him. The jedi would stop worrying about the droids seeing there is a bigger problem to be stopped. All Dooku has to do is sit up and build up the numbers of his droid army while the jedi and clones beat the shit out of each other. All he then has to do is overthrow the winner who will be crippled after the fight with either the clones or the jedi. Plus with the Republic in dissaray because the jedi are trying to take over and keep the peace more and more systems are likely to join the CIS. Everything that happens will be benefiting the great Count Dooku.

The JEdi wouldn't trust Dooku at all, not after hsi trying to kill three Jedi, and the murder of Sifo-Dias.

They are already paying extra close attention to Palpatine remember. I also think that the jedi council are smart enough to know when Dooku is telling the truth. He was a top member of the jedi order and he would have earned enough respect then to be taken seriously. The jedi already distrust Palpatine and I think that Dookus words, sith or not, would be enough for them to take out Palpatine.