Its not fair

Originally posted by Rampant ox
They are already paying extra close attention to Palpatine remember. I also think that the jedi council are smart enough to know when Dooku is telling the truth. He was a top member of the jedi order and he would have earned enough respect then to be taken seriously. The jedi already distrust Palpatine and I think that Dookus words, sith or not, would be enough for them to take out Palpatine.

"Do you believe what Dooku said about Sidious controlling the Senate? It doesn't feel right."

Had Dooku revealed the identity of Sids as Palpatine, not just as the influencer in general, the Jedi wouldn't have cared less.

It was Palpatine's unrelenting pursuit of the war and greater expansion of his powers after the death of Dooku and even Greivous that led them to suspect him of foul play.

Even still, they thought he was doing Sidious's work, not actually Sidious himself until Anakin broke that news.

Speaking of Grievous, the droid general was the commander of the droid army, a brilliant tactitian recruited to win battles for them.

Dooku was the political leader of the CIS, who used his stature and influence to convince planets to leave the Republic, and trade and commerce organizations to provide funding and battle droids for his political agendas. (real or not.)

He wasn't much of a military commander, at least as shown in the movies. (he botched the arena executions, and it was Greivous who launched the attack on Coruscant.)

That said, Dooku was a very powerfull Sith Lord, though not your run of the mill type of evil dark-side user.

I believe that he would pwn palpatine in sabers, but...... in force powers its a toss up. (edge: palps.)

He is not stronger than Yoda, as he had to create a distraction to escape.

"Faught well you have, my old Padawan." ---- I was always under the assumption that the fight was over right there, and that Yoda had him.

Nor could Dooku beat Anakin, as evidenced by EpIII, even at his full out best.

Anakin is the Single Most Powerfull Force User (Jedi/Sith),..... period.

(Pre-suited, and allowed to gain full potential of course.)

GL set it up to be that way.

I agree that Dooku is great, but Anakin WTFpwn's his old ass.
😄

Originally posted by sithsaber408
"Do you believe what Dooku said about Sidious controlling the Senate? It doesn't feel right."

Had Dooku revealed the identity of Sids as Palpatine, not just as the influencer in general, the Jedi wouldn't have cared less.

It was Palpatine's unrelenting pursuit of the war and greater expansion of his powers after the death of Dooku and even Greivous that led them to suspect him of foul play.

Even still, they thought he was doing Sidious's work, not actually Sidious himself until Anakin broke that news.

Speaking of Grievous, the droid general was the commander of the droid army, a brilliant tactitian recruited to win battles for them.

Dooku was the political leader of the CIS, who used his stature and influence to convince planets to leave the Republic, and trade and commerce organizations to provide funding and battle droids for his political agendas. (real or not.)

He wasn't much of a military commander, at least as shown in the movies. (he botched the arena executions, and it was Greivous who launched the attack on Coruscant.)

That said, Dooku was a very powerfull Sith Lord, though not your run of the mill type of evil dark-side user.

I believe that he would pwn palpatine in sabers, but...... in force powers its a toss up. (edge: palps.)

He is not stronger than Yoda, as he had to create a distraction to escape.

"Faught well you have, my old Padawan." ---- I was always under the assumption that the fight was over right there, and that Yoda had him.

Nor could Dooku beat Anakin, as evidenced by EpIII, even at his full out best.

Anakin is the Single Most Powerfull Force User (Jedi/Sith),..... period.

(Pre-suited, and allowed to gain full potential of course.)

GL set it up to be that way.

I agree that Dooku is great, but Anakin WTFpwn's his old ass.
😄

The arena executions were only used to start the clone wars. Whether they were meant to die or not is irrelevant, the fact is his job was to start the clone wars and thats what he did. Dooku wasnt up to the level of GG military tactics but I think he had his own tricks that wuold have come into play if need be.

Everyone thinks that Dooku would have lost the battle with Yoda but I think otherwise. I posted this in another thread:
Ok then. Dooku could beat Yoda because his lightsaber style is better in two ways. Firstly, it is made for lightsaber vs lightsaber combat and secondly, it uses minimum energy. While in the short term Yodas style is extremely effective he will tire himself out pretty quickly. This is shown in AOTC after his duel with Dooku. He is panting like a dog and they were only fighting for about thirty seconds. If Dooku manages to hold Yoda off long enough to get him tired then Yoda is finished. Plus Dooku has a pretty vast knowledge of both sides of the force. While Yoda is extremely good and maybe even the best in the knowledge of the force, his force abilities (apart from push) arent used for combat. Dooku could Force lightning Yoda any time during the duel and finish him off (remember Dooku only duels with one hand so his other can be used for force attacks). So overall it would be an extremely close and spectacular match but the Count would pick up the victory.

Finally the battle with Anakin had alot of factors in it. Yes Dooku got pwned but that is not to say that Anakin is the better duelist. If Dooku had wanted the match would have been over in a matter of seconds.

You do not understand. You are thinking that Dooku and Sids were partners . Hence Dooku knowing all the plans and such. Dooku was not a partner he was a pawn. I doubt Palps told Dooku that he was planning on making Anakin his apprentice, but rather told him to kill him. Dooku did not know that Palps actually wanted Dooku to die, to make way for Anakin. No, Dooku was going his fullest. If not in the beggining then definantly after Anakin kicked him off the rail.

I disagree. Dooku was never going his fullest. He thought all he had to do was bring out the darkside in Anakin and thats what he did. He wasnt worried about losing because he thought Sids had his back. I do agree with your statement that Dooku had no knowledge of only being a 'placeholder' for Anakin. I will admit that Dooku got tricked good and proper by Sidious which caused his defeat. He didnt lose because he got out classed in duelling/fore abilities.

I'm out of it for two days and suddenly everyone starts getting delusions of grandeur.

'Kay I have not read every single post in between this one and my last one, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone.

To reiterate: Honestly, if you were the CIA, and you were fighting the enemies of America and freedom worldwide, and you know that the leader of these enemies is a former CIA agent, would you be inclined to believe him if he were to tell you that the leader of the country you're fighting for is actually the architect of the whole damn thing? (This is an analogy, so please, no Bush-bashing)

I hope you said no, 'cause you'd be a damn fool to trust on a whim.

Dooku would not be able to convince his former comrades that Palpatine was the architect, not easily anyway. And even if they did believe him, do you honestly think that every one of at least 7000 Jedi from across the galaxy will have the oppurtunity to converge on and corner Palpatine all in one go? Nope.

Know why? Because these Jedi are still needed to fight the CIS. These Jedi need the clones to do that. Palpatine damn well knows this. And Palpatine commands the utter loyalty of said clones. Like I said, from his place of hiding he could instruct the clones to continue deceiving the Jedi until finally when the moment's right...Wham!, Order 66. STILL behind the Jedi's back.

Dookun will not have the oppurtunity to build up a droid army seeing as how his armies and his fleets and his planets are STILL being attacked by the Jedi's forces. There's no relaxing time for him no matter what way you look at this.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
The arena executions were only used to start the clone wars. Whether they were meant to die or not is irrelevant, the fact is his job was to start the clone wars and thats what he did. Dooku wasnt up to the level of GG military tactics but I think he had his own tricks that wuold have come into play if need be.

Everyone thinks that Dooku would have lost the battle with Yoda but I think otherwise. I posted this in another thread:
Ok then. Dooku could beat Yoda because his lightsaber style is better in two ways. Firstly, it is made for lightsaber vs lightsaber combat and secondly, it uses minimum energy. While in the short term Yodas style is extremely effective he will tire himself out pretty quickly. This is shown in AOTC after his duel with Dooku. He is panting like a dog and they were only fighting for about thirty seconds. If Dooku manages to hold Yoda off long enough to get him tired then Yoda is finished. Plus Dooku has a pretty vast knowledge of both sides of the force. While Yoda is extremely good and maybe even the best in the knowledge of the force, his force abilities (apart from push) arent used for combat. Dooku could Force lightning Yoda any time during the duel and finish him off (remember Dooku only duels with one hand so his other can be used for force attacks). So overall it would be an extremely close and spectacular match but the Count would pick up the victory.

Finally the battle with Anakin had alot of factors in it. Yes Dooku got pwned but that is not to say that Anakin is the better duelist. If Dooku had wanted the match would have been over in a matter of seconds.

No, Dooku was only halfway successful at Geonosis.

All those Jedi were to die, and Jango was not. (note the look of surpirse on his face when Mace Pwns jango.)

Amidala was to die. She didn't.

Dooku was supposed to kill all of them, and then lauch an attack on the Republic, most likely. (palps already had the emergency powers and the clone army before anybody arrived there for a rescue, and save for Anakin, I doubt that he really wanted any of them getting away.

Secondly, Dooku's style may be better for long term fighting and is desinged for saber v.s. saber combat (although that makes no sense on its own, as all saber styles are desinged for saber on saber fighting, just with a different focus.).......

But Yoda beat him. Yoda's flurry attacks outmatched him, and dooku was done. It didn't matter that Yoda got tired after, because he had him beat. Dooku knew it. That's why he left. He had just tried to kill Obi-wan, before being interrupted by Anakin, and had then de-limbed Anakin. There was no intent of set-up and escape.

He tried to crush Yoda with the ceiling, throw large objects at him, and use Force lightning (all things which Yoda was un-effected by, even though Dooku's supposed to be "stronger" by knowing both light and dark)..... meaning he tried to kill him. He wanted to win. He resorted to lightsabers becuase he was too weak in the Force for Yoda, and he created a distraction and ran like a coward from a one on one fight that you say he was supposedly "about to win", becuase Yoda PWNED him there too.

As for Anakin, well we will agree to disagree I guess.

GL says that Anakin is the Single Most Powerfull Force User (pre-suited and at full potential).

The novelization of the movie says that Kenobi and Skywalker tricked Dooku by starting off with one style and then switching, and it also says that Dooku was scared, as Anakin got stronger and stronger during the fight (due to the Count taunting him, I'll give you that), and that Dooku could barely hold him back at the end.

Then you have the movie, where Dooku is Owned, Pwned, and WTFpwned, in about 3 min. by Anakin.

I agree with all of them, and you agree with yourself.

Long Live Dooku, and the Confederacy! 😄

(Just teasing mate, I think Dooku was a great character, just not as great as you seem to....) 😉

Originally posted by sithsaber408
No, Dooku was only halfway successful at Geonosis.

All those Jedi were to die, and Jango was not. (note the look of surpirse on his face when Mace Pwns jango.)

Amidala was to die. She didn't.

Dooku was supposed to kill all of them, and then lauch an attack on the Republic, most likely. (palps already had the emergency powers and the clone army before anybody arrived there for a rescue, and save for Anakin, I doubt that he really wanted any of them getting away.

Secondly, Dooku's style may be better for long term fighting and is desinged for saber v.s. saber combat (although that makes no sense on its own, as all saber styles are desinged for saber on saber fighting, just with a different focus.).......

But Yoda beat him. Yoda's flurry attacks outmatched him, and dooku was done. It didn't matter that Yoda got tired after, because he had him beat. Dooku knew it. That's why he left. He had just tried to kill Obi-wan, before being interrupted by Anakin, and had then de-limbed Anakin. There was no intent of set-up and escape.

He tried to crush Yoda with the ceiling, throw large objects at him, and use Force lightning (all things which Yoda was un-effected by, even though Dooku's supposed to be "stronger" by knowing both light and dark)..... meaning he tried to kill him. He wanted to win. He resorted to lightsabers becuase he was too weak in the Force for Yoda, and he created a distraction and ran like a coward from a one on one fight that you say he was supposedly "about to win", becuase Yoda PWNED him there too.

As for Anakin, well we will agree to disagree I guess.

GL says that Anakin is the Single Most Powerfull Force User (pre-suited and at full potential).

The novelization of the movie says that Kenobi and Skywalker tricked Dooku by starting off with one style and then switching, and it also says that Dooku was scared, as Anakin got stronger and stronger during the fight (due to the Count taunting him, I'll give you that), and that Dooku could barely hold him back at the end.

Then you have the movie, where Dooku is Owned, Pwned, and WTFpwned, in about 3 min. by Anakin.

I agree with all of them, and you agree with yourself.

Long Live Dooku, and the Confederacy! 😄

(Just teasing mate, I think Dooku was a great character, just not as great as you seem to....) 😉

clapping

Originally posted by sithsaber408
No, Dooku was only halfway successful at Geonosis.

All those Jedi were to die, and Jango was not. (note the look of surpirse on his face when Mace Pwns jango.)

Amidala was to die. She didn't.

Dooku was supposed to kill all of them, and then lauch an attack on the Republic, most likely. (palps already had the emergency powers and the clone army before anybody arrived there for a rescue, and save for Anakin, I doubt that he really wanted any of them getting away.

Secondly, Dooku's style may be better for long term fighting and is desinged for saber v.s. saber combat (although that makes no sense on its own, as all saber styles are desinged for saber on saber fighting, just with a different focus.).......

But Yoda beat him. Yoda's flurry attacks outmatched him, and dooku was done. It didn't matter that Yoda got tired after, because he had him beat. Dooku knew it. That's why he left. He had just tried to kill Obi-wan, before being interrupted by Anakin, and had then de-limbed Anakin. There was no intent of set-up and escape.

He tried to crush Yoda with the ceiling, throw large objects at him, and use Force lightning (all things which Yoda was un-effected by, even though Dooku's supposed to be "stronger" by knowing both light and dark)..... meaning he tried to kill him. He wanted to win. He resorted to lightsabers becuase he was too weak in the Force for Yoda, and he created a distraction and ran like a coward from a one on one fight that you say he was supposedly "about to win", becuase Yoda PWNED him there too.

As for Anakin, well we will agree to disagree I guess.

GL says that Anakin is the Single Most Powerfull Force User (pre-suited and at full potential).

The novelization of the movie says that Kenobi and Skywalker tricked Dooku by starting off with one style and then switching, and it also says that Dooku was scared, as Anakin got stronger and stronger during the fight (due to the Count taunting him, I'll give you that), and that Dooku could barely hold him back at the end.

Then you have the movie, where Dooku is Owned, Pwned, and WTFpwned, in about 3 min. by Anakin.

I agree with all of them, and you agree with yourself.

Long Live Dooku, and the Confederacy! 😄

(Just teasing mate, I think Dooku was a great character, just not as great as you seem to....) 😉

At the battle of Geonosis Dookus priority was to launch the Clone Wars ands thats what he did. Jangos death was unfortunate and you can tell this by the way Dooku flinches, but his death was not Dookus fault. It was more of a loss on an emotional level because Fett and Dooku were good friends, than a tactical level. It made no difference to the outcome of the war if Fett had died or not, he was just a pawn.
Dooku couldnt care less if Padme died or not, he merely was killing her because thats what Nute Gunray wanted. He was only going to kill her to keep Gunrays support which he managed to keep anyway.
Yes he probably set out to kill all the jedi at Geonosis but once again it made no difference. It only kept the jedi alive slightly longer. Before long Dooku knew they would be killed by the clones anyway so it mattered little.
The battle of Yoda is a complicated one in my opinion. It was a battle between master and apprentice. During there force battle there is no reason to beleive Yoda would have one. They would have kept throwing things at each other and it would have ended in a stalemate. Just because the Count suggested the duel doesnt mean he was losing the force battle. And because Dooku suggested the duel, it would mean he thought he could beat Yoda in a duel. At the end of the fight when Dooku dropped that thing on Obi-Wan and Anakin and Yoda had to stop it, Dooku could have cut down Yoda but he didnt. This means that he probably had to much respect for Yoda to kill him. IT could mean that Dooku knew he was coming to a victory so made a quick escape so that he didnt have to kill his old master.
The ROTS duel is a difficult one. I guess GLs word is law but the fight didnt show Dooku losing. Not until his arms got cut off did it look like Dooku was getting pwned. At no point other than the en did it show Dooku gettin pwned. I also think that it was luck Anakin cut Dookus arms off and if he hadnt Dooku would have one.

Woah there, you said a very un-SW like word: Luck.

Or for a better word, chance. Dooku definetely did not plan on losing that duel by having his hands lopped off. Whether the plan was for him to be beaten or not, it doesn't matter. Dooku, in that second, was beaten and disarmed. (literally) And it wasn't pre-ordained for him to lose his hands either, he wouldn't have gone for that.

And I doubt very much that if Dooku was willing rebel against the Republic, build a droid army, sit back and watch 200 Jedi die before his eyes, personally execute Obi-Wan, and conspire with the Sith, that he would be unwilling to kill Yoda.

But Yoda was his old master. He would be the hardest jedi for him to kill except for maybe Qui-Gon.

Dooku lost to Anakin most likely because he wanted to test his strength, and in that instant Anakin got a power boost from his rage, fueling him to defeat Dooku when he wasn't going all out.

I agree with you Tarvos if the point you are trying to make is that Dooku would have pwned Anakin whenever he wanted except for those final seconds where he got his arms chopped off.

He likely could have ended that duel quickly. But he just had to toy around with Obi-Wan instead of slicing him in half when he had the chance. That and his goading fueld Anakin's rage, allowing him to beat Dooku.

Letting Obi-Wan live was one of Dooku's less... intelligent mometns.

Originally posted by Tangible God
He likely could have ended that duel quickly. But he just had to toy around with Obi-Wan instead of slicing him in half when he had the chance. That and his goading fueld Anakin's rage, allowing him to beat Dooku.

Letting Obi-Wan live was one of Dooku's less... intelligent mometns.

Dooku had everything planned. It wasnt one of his less intelligent moments because Count Dooku is almighty. He is in perfect form 100% of the time. It was that bastard Sidious's falt that he died.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Dooku had everything planned. It wasnt one of his less intelligent moments because Count Dooku is almighty. He is in perfect form 100% of the time. It was that bastard Sidious's falt that he died.

Originally posted by Council#13
Yay he's restricted. I reported him twice!

being a snitch is nothing to be proud of.

Except when it ends in Noobs and dumbasses being banned... then it's a great thing to be proud of.

|-o-| (-O-) |-o-| hold the formation

Originally posted by General G
The Jedi ruled for a millenia, the Sith ruled for 23 years or something like that. Does anyone else find this upsetting or annoying? I really liked the Sith and with people like Vader and Sidious, they should have ruled longer, any thoughts?

Of course its fair.

They are the F*cking villains.

They suck donkey balls.

Maul is a great fighter, fueled with hate, and expertly trained.

But..... too overconfident and not strong enough to take downt the head honcho's like Yoda or Mace.

Result: PWNED.

Count Dooku was a fool of a Jedi who got duped by Sids into taking his frustrations with the Senate and the Council, and putting them behind a war effort that was all about Sids ruling the galaxy.

Despite Rampant Ox's wishes other wise, Dooku, while powerfull and charasmatic, is a chump who can't beat Yoda and is discarded like yesterdays trash to make room for anakin.

Result: a pawn who is PWNED.

Anakin himself is a hack. A whiny b*tch who wants it his way, and who is also TRICKED into doing Sidious's will and killing all of his comrades while losing his girl to his own inabilites to control his temper.

He gets sliced and diced, and is later taken out by his own son, who as a half-trained Padawan just has to tap into his raw dark power once to put Vader down.

Anakin/Vader result: PWNED.

As for Sid's....

He is the ultimate evil, cunning and powerfull, but also shortsighted.

He lost two good apprentices, and while the war was won (mostly by anakin and the clones) he had major setbacks in many battles along the way.

So much so that a rag-tag group of gurella warfare rebels with less than half of the funding of the Empire was able to destroy his death star, and then he was killed on the second death star by his own right hand man.

Again, short-sighted.

Result: PWNED.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm a huge starwars fan, and I love all of these characters, and would have to say that Vader is my fave after Yoda.

But they all did exactly what the Sith were supposed to do in these movies:

DIE. Either through lack of insight or due to overconfidence/arrogance.

It's no wonder they lost their order and their government 23 years after they came into power.

The're flunkies!

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Of course its fair.

They are the F*cking villains.

They suck donkey balls.

Maul is a great fighter, fueled with hate, and expertly trained.

But..... too overconfident and not strong enough to take downt the head honcho's like Yoda or Mace.

Result: PWNED.

Count Dooku was a fool of a Jedi who got duped by Sids into taking his frustrations with the Senate and the Council, and putting them behind a war effort that was all about Sids ruling the galaxy.

Despite Rampant Ox's wishes other wise, Dooku, while powerfull and charasmatic, is a chump who can't beat Yoda and is discarded like yesterdays trash to make room for anakin.

Result: a pawn who is PWNED.

Anakin himself is a hack. A whiny b*tch who wants it his way, and who is also TRICKED into doing Sidious's will and killing all of his comrades while losing his girl to his own inabilites to control his temper.

He gets sliced and diced, and is later taken out by his own son, who as a half-trained Padawan just has to tap into his raw dark power once to put Vader down.

Anakin/Vader result: PWNED.

As for Sid's....

He is the ultimate evil, cunning and powerfull, but also shortsighted.

He lost two good apprentices, and while the war was won (mostly by anakin and the clones) he had major setbacks in many battles along the way.

So much so that a rag-tag group of gurella warfare rebels with less than half of the funding of the Empire was able to destroy his death star, and then he was killed on the second death star by his own right hand man.

Again, short-sighted.

Result: PWNED.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm a huge starwars fan, and I love all of these characters, and would have to say that Vader is my fave after Yoda.

But they all did exactly what the Sith were supposed to do in these movies:

DIE. Either through lack of insight or due to overconfidence/arrogance.

It's no wonder they lost their order and their government 23 years after they came into power.

The're flunkies!