but wouldn't saying that Kun could use his blast on any living, or let's say powerful force users, also be an unsupported assumption?
That doesn't make any sense. That would be tantamount to me saying that Luke would fight back is an unsupported assumption.
shouldn't he be able to use the same technique against Kun's blasts?
Again, it's an unsupported assumption to state such. The attacks are not of the same nature.
Well no my point is there is no real evidence that Kun could use it on a powerful force user right?
Wrong. Why can't he? He can use it against both animate and inanimate objects but for some mysterious, unknown to everyone but tdtd reason he can't use it against Force users?
Care to enlighten us as to why?
Saying he would flat out kill him would be an unsupported assumption
No it isn't. They're fighting. Why wouldn't he? Kun "flat-out killed" Odan-Urr.
Again, that's tantamount to me saying that Luke wouldn't fight back and anything to the contrary is an unsupported assumption.
Originally posted by IKC
Wrong. Why can't he? He can use it against both animate and inanimate objects but for some mysterious, unknown to everyone but tdtd reason he can't use it against Force users?Care to enlighten us as to why?
No it isn't. They're fighting. Why wouldn't he? Kun "flat-out killed" Odan-Urr.
Again, that's tantamount to me saying that Luke wouldn't fight back and anything to the contrary is an unsupported assumption.
When you say it like that, that he can use it against inanimate and animate objects, that is where I can throw in the AT-AT example, because it can be used against both. When you say that it's created differently and is a physical manifestation of the force, then it's hard to argue X and Y. Why are you bringing Odan Urr into this? Kun used a force grip on the senior citizen and Odan Urr died slowly afterwards. You make it sound like it would be a walk in the park for Kun, WITHOUT having to use his amulet.
When you say it like that, that he can use it against inanimate and animate objects, that is where I can throw in the AT-AT example, because it can be used against both
Again, that doesn't mean they have the same properties.
My example stands: A potent enough bomb can blow up the same things that the Death Star superlaser can blow up. Does this mean they have the same properties and have the same nature? No.
I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.
When you say that it's created differently and is a physical manifestation of the force, then it's hard to argue X and Y.
What the hell are you talking about? I said it's different from an AT-AT laser, yes, and thus you can't throw out a blanket statement like you've been trying.
Why are you bringing Odan Urr into this? Kun used a force grip on the senior citizen and Odan Urr died slowly afterwards.
To correct: Kun used an unknown Force attack (grip is an assumption) on a thousand year old Jedi master who battled the ancient Sith (and became proficient in cutting them off from the Force) and Odan died soon afterwards. Actually, I'd say quickly afterwards. It took all of one panel.
I brought him into this because you made the ridiculous assumption that Kun wouldn't try to kill Luke instantly, and then I asked you why wouldn't he?
You make it sound like it would be a walk in the park for Kun, WITHOUT having to use his amulet.
I don't see how you could get this based on what I typed in the previous post. Read it again.
just like saying Kun is able to use the Amulet on anybody.
No it isn't, dude. He has been shown to use it on living and nonliving, animate and inanimate, force-using and non-force-using. There is nothing to say that he can't use the amulet on character X.
That's tantamount to saying that the Death Star can't be used on character X because "we haven't seen it."
Originally posted by tdtd
I know they don't have the same properties but my point is that it it is an unsupported, logical or not, assumption, that if Luke can block X he can block Y, just like saying Kun is able to use the Amulet on anybody.
No it isn't.
The amulet demonstrates tangible effects. It literally vaporizes matter. So unless you are trying to say that Luke's body isn't composed of any matter or flesh, you have no argument.
To say Luke can (definitive) block it is unsupported, because it was never demonstrated that he can block an attack of that particular nature. Can we make an argument that he could (theoretical) block it? Possibly, but to say it wouldn't work on him is being stupid when it clearly demonstrates tangible effects.
Luke's emerald lightning is entirely different. Did it fry the grounds? Did it leave physical markings on the Vong? Did it shock the floor? Did it destroy anything?
No. No. No. No.
So any assumption as pertaining to the nature of that attack is speculatory. Got it?
No, explain it again, I like your storytelling abilities.. I didn't argue that Luke could DEFINITELY block it, I argued that Luke could POSSIBLY block it. My other point was because he was able to use it on a sith wyrm, or the Massassi(if he used it on them I don't know), would he be able to use it on a powerful force user? If he can use it on DE Sidious, would he be able to use it on Sadow or Ragnos?
Originally posted by tdtd
No, explain it again, I like your storytelling abilities.. I didn't argue that Luke could DEFINITELY block it, I argued that Luke could POSSIBLY block it. My other point was because he was able to use it on a sith wyrm, or the Massassi(if he used it on them I don't know), would he be able to use it on a powerful force user? If he can use it on DE Sidious, would he be able to use it on Sadow or Ragnos?
Possibly doesn't cut it. Luke "possibly" being able to block Kun's blasts and "possibly" being able to use his green sparks on Kun doesn't cut it for him.
The problem is that now you're speaking strictly hypothetical. Do you know how Sadow would counter it if in the event that he could? How do you know that he wouldn't block it, or disable it in some other method? You don't. That argument is purely assumption.
The problem is that Luke's feats, however large, do not make him singular. As mentioned, he was able to control a black hole that the Vong made, a feat duplicated by Kyp. He was able to create an illusion of a ship, a feat duplicated to a FAR larger scale by Naga Sadow and Aleema. He was able to hack through a multitude Vong, a feat duplicated by Ganner Rhystrode. Are you going to argue that people like Kyp, Ganner, and Aleema would beat Kun?
No, but he did create his own saber form, the lightning, and the black hole thing first I believe. The problem is that Luke's force abilities are far beyond Kun's, and most everybody else, but very little of them would help him in a fight against any force user. I guess that's what you get when you kill off all the sith.
Originally posted by Borbarad
As it seems he used it against Aleema in DLotS #6
To be honest with you, I don't believe that he was using the same attack. When he knocked Aleema aside, all that happened to her was that she went unconscious.
The only theory under which I could consider that to be the same attack is if Kun wasn't pissed off at the time (because the amulet was described as using his anger to "unleash tremendous energies."😉
Even if that theory were workable, one who argues it would have to explain why it didn't so much as singe her but still had enough force to knock her across the room and into unconsciousness. That alone leads me to believe that they aren't the same attack.
No, but he did create his own saber form,
Uh, what? Since when?
and the black hole thing first I believe
Dude. Luke did not create telekinesis.
The problem is that Luke's force abilities are far beyond Kun's, and most everybody else
Unsupported (and untrue) assumption.
Prove up.