Oh lord, IKC lets be serious here big pimpin. How are they going to get raped? Unless of course you believe Ulic has force abilities above either character, which is far from the truth. Although if it is ROTS Sidious he'd probably die first. Either way the saber battle isn't going to be easy for Ulic at all, but he would lose a force battle.
I like how you automatically assume that Ulic is a Mace Windu-type character (great at saber combat, mediocre at the Force) despite the fact that he's described as being powerful in the Force.
Really, your assertion that he's beneath either of these relative lightweights in a Force battle is an unsupported assumption.
So is the fact that you would like to assume that he would tool two powerful sith lords.... It goes both ways IKC, at least I can admit that. And what do we see him do with his force abilities? I'm glad he's described as powerful but how powerful, and does anything indicate that he's as powerful in the force as Sidious/Malak?
How is that turning my logic on me? We know Ragnos was the most powerful of the powerful, period. No need to go beyond that. Stating the Ulic was powerful in the force does not automatically mean TOTJ owns all IKC.. You sayng he is above those two is an unproven assumption. I won't argue saber combat because Ulic could possibly take that, but you can't even give me an example of what makes Ulic more powerful than either of those two in the force, besides bias of course.
Originally posted by tdtd
How is that turning my logic on me? We know Ragnos was the most powerful of the powerful, period. No need to go beyond that. Stating the Ulic was powerful in the force does not automatically mean TOTJ owns all IKC.. You sayng he is above those two is an unproven assumption. I won't argue saber combat because Ulic could possibly take that, but you can't even give me an example of what makes Ulic more powerful than either of those two in the force, besides bias of course.
So does that mean he can take two such opponents? If we were to be a strict constructionist, I could say, no, that's not proven.
You can't jump back and forth on your interpretation of canon wherever you see fit.
But I can say that there's no logical way you can quantify Ulic's power from the phrase "powerful force user". We know both Malak and Sidous were powerful force users, and unless Ulic was uber powerful in the force, which there is no support for, he doesn't stand much chance against them in a force fight does he Illustrious?
Originally posted by tdtd
But I can say that there's no logical way you can quantify Ulic's power from the phrase "powerful force user". We know both Malak and Sidous were powerful force users, and unless Ulic was uber powerful in the force, which there is no support for, he doesn't stand much chance against them in a force fight does he Illustrious?
So what you're saying is thus:
I can not quantify Ulic's power, therefore he gets pwned.
WTF? No, you can not quantify means you can not quantify. It does not mean you can make decisions.
Oh lord, IKC lets be serious here big pimpin. How are they going to get raped? Unless of course you believe Ulic has force abilities above either character, which is far from the truth. Although if it is ROTS Sidious he'd probably die first. Either way the saber battle isn't going to be easy for Ulic at all, but he would lose a force battle.
IKC may well be doing the same thing, but at least he is attempting to quantify his abilities. You seemed to have just made a conclusion there from what you claim is nothing.
That'd be nice if we didn't already know that, in his era, Ulic was second only to Exar Kun in practically every relevant field.
There's also the fact that the spirit of Nadd, taunting Ulic, refers to him as one of the "great ones." Then he references Exar Kun, saying, "And there is another, even greater than you."
Aleema says that she "senses the Force is strong (in Ulic)."
When Satal injected Ulic with Sith poison, Ulic's force-powered response was enough to wreck the torture droid he was strapped into, much of which was made out of stone. It was described by the narrator as, "A massive impulse of Force energy that blasts the young Jedi free of the droid's embrace"
When Ulic blasts his friends back after defeating Satal Keto, it's described by the narrator thusly: "But the process that has begun in Ulic builds to catastrophic levels... unleashing waves of dark side energy in his body and against his friends!" The panel shows Ulic in the center and a visible blast of energy knocking back Cay Qel-Droma and Tott Doneeta.
When Kun is crowned and Ulic named his foremost apprentice, the narrator describes their joined power from Aleema's perspective: "As Aleema regains consciousness, she beholds an astonishing transformation in her lover Ulic... Ulic Qel-Droma and the intruder (Kun) are rippling with Dark-Side energy... more power than all her Sith magic has given her."
Anyway, your assumption that Ulic is mediocre in the Force is unfounded. His skill with the lightsaber over both opponents is great, and at the very least he is equal to both of them in Force combat.
Ulic hasn't shown as much power using the force as these two have, so it would be safe to assume that they are better force users (I believe that is a dulled down version of what tdtd is trying to say), and I agree completely with that. Malak would confront him in melee combat while Sidious uses the force to attack him. I don't think Ulic could take the combined efforts of these two any time soon.
Wonderful.. So you've provided quotes from various people. Explain to me how Aleema's opinion is any different than Kreia's in KOTOR II, and quantify Ulic's force power with that text you just gave me. Where does it say that Ulic was only second to Kun in force mastery? If I recall correctly, Aleema has shown more of a mastery than Ulic. And I'm not underestimating his force abilities I'm sure they're good, but there is nothing that shows that they're better than either Malak, or Sidious, or the combination, and your belief that he is at the very least equal to them in force abilities is an unsupported, and ridiculous assumption.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Ulic hasn't shown as much power using the force as these two have, so it would be safe to assume that they are better force users (I believe that is a dulled down version of what tdtd is trying to say), and I agree completely with that. Malak would confront him in melee combat while Sidious uses the force to attack him. I don't think Ulic could take the combined efforts of these two any time soon.
I did, and I asked you to quantify his power in accordance to those quotes. Bottom line is IKC, there is no evidence whatsoever that would show Ulic being superior to either of the duo in the force... And stop using the Ragnos example as it is a terrible one, because we already know he is the most powerful of this most powerful. At least his abilities are definitive..