Originally posted by tdtd
Yea I'd blow Luke as often as you verbally fellate Kun.
But the point is I don't. You're the one who runs around arguing DN Luke is teh oober and no one can hold a candle to him and you haven't even read the damn DN books. You argue from ignorance in Luke's favor whenever he shows up. That's fanboyism. I argue in Kun's favor when there's sufficient evidence for it and no other times. That's NOT fanboyism. Get it straight.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
But the point is I don't. You're the one who runs around arguing DN Luke is teh oober and no one can hold a candle to him and you haven't even read the damn DN books. You argue from ignorance in Luke's favor whenever he shows up. That's fanboyism. I argue in Kun's favor when there's sufficient evidence for it and no other times. That's NOT fanboyism. Get it straight.
Yes, I argue that nobody can stop DN Luke, yet when Luke is in a thread with ANcient Sith for instance, I quickly put him down. You ALWAYS argue in Kun's favor, and in anything relating to TOTJ. I'm interested to see you argue against it when the evidence is clear. For instance, start with this thread, especially since I did present a reasonable argument to effectively combat IKC's.
Originally posted by tdtd
Yes, I argue that nobody can stop DN Luke, yet when Luke is in a thread with ANcient Sith for instance, I quickly put him down.
Which is the only exception. And you skirted the fact that you know less about DN Luke than people like Glentract and Faunus and Nai. Hell, even Illustrious knows a good deal about Dn Luke compared to you. So you admit to arguing from ignorance -except- in the case of the ancient sith. This doesn't absolve you of fanboyism, sorry.
You ALWAYS argue in Kun's favor, and in anything relating to TOTJ.
I haven't really seen many threads where Kun's been put up against anyone I feel he can't take. Whenever I DO argue in a thread about Kun, it's when you come out of the woodwork like some forum gremlin and start saying unsupported bullshit. Normally, I wouldn't even so much as post.
I'm interested to see you argue against it when the evidence is clear. For instance, start with this thread, especially since I did present a reasonable argument to effectively combat IKC's.
Where's your reasonable argument? I didn't see one. IKC rips you in pieces in every debate I've ever seen, and it's because he brings the logical arguments, he brings the proof, and you just piss and moan, make logical fallacies, and try and work semantics on canon proof. In short, you only debate insofar as you ***** at IKC's rather sound viewpoints.
Actually I've provided a very good argument for once, one that you haven't been able to refute, even with your random quotes about how Ulic is strong with the force. By your logic, Anakin>Malak+Sidious because he was "very strong with the force". The fact remains that there's nothing that puts Ulic above EITHER one in force abilities. Saber combat is a different subject.
Here we go with the definitions. I love your "For once tdtd provided an argument I can't refute so I'll just point out his logical fallacies, and while I'm at it correct his grammar, to feel better" Logic. I've provided a good argument so have others.. Way to ignore everybody that doesn't share your opinion IKC. I'm still waiting for you to form an argument that doesn't consist of "TOTJ>all".
So in conclusion you can't quantify Ulic's force abilities regarding quotes, nor is there any significant proof of Ulic's uber force mastery, so there's nothing to even remotely suggest that at the very least he is equal to them combined in force abilities, but thanks for your opinion.
At the same time, we know that Malak and Sidious were at the very least, somewhat powerful force users, so unless you can quantify Ulic's power, or provide proof that Ulic is more powerful than these two combined besides your respectable opinion, there's no point in arguing, just leave it alone.
Here we go with the definitions. I love your "For once tdtd provided an argument I can't refute so I'll just point out his logical fallacies, and while I'm at it correct his grammar, to feel better" Logic. I've provided a good argument so have others.. Way to ignore everybody that doesn't share your opinion IKC. I'm still waiting for you to form an argument that doesn't consist of "TOTJ>all".
There you go again with the logical fallacies.
Your argument is nonexistant. You have set up a strawman argument and attack it while at the same time offering no proof of your own to the contrary. I'll post the meaning of strawman argument for you to review:
# Person A has position X.
# Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
# Person B attacks position Y.
# Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
In other words, you aren't even responding to what my argument is. You're wasting time pursuing a fallacy in logic. Get it through your head.
I'll just quote my argument again, see if you can spot what I'm actually trying to say:
Originally posted by IKC
That'd be nice if we didn't already know that, in his era, Ulic was second only to Exar Kun in practically every relevant field.There's also the fact that the spirit of Nadd, taunting Ulic, refers to him as one of the "great ones." Then he references Exar Kun, saying, "And there is another, even greater than you."
Aleema says that she "senses the Force is strong (in Ulic)."
When Satal injected Ulic with Sith poison, Ulic's force-powered response was enough to wreck the torture droid he was strapped into, much of which was made out of stone. It was described by the narrator as, "A massive impulse of Force energy that blasts the young Jedi free of the droid's embrace"
When Ulic blasts his friends back after defeating Satal Keto, it's described by the narrator thusly: "But the process that has begun in Ulic builds to catastrophic levels... unleashing waves of dark side energy in his body and against his friends!" The panel shows Ulic in the center and a visible blast of energy knocking back Cay Qel-Droma and Tott Doneeta.
When Kun is crowned and Ulic named his foremost apprentice, the narrator describes their joined power from Aleema's perspective: "As Aleema regains consciousness, she beholds an astonishing transformation in her lover Ulic... Ulic Qel-Droma and the intruder (Kun) are rippling with Dark-Side energy... more power than all her Sith magic has given her."
Anyway, your assumption that Ulic is mediocre in the Force is unfounded. His skill with the lightsaber over both opponents is great, and at the very least he is equal to both of them in Force combat.
Huh. Looks like I provided concrete examples, too.
You know it's funny how most internet people start correcting others when they're either angry or they've lost an argument, I'll let the others figure out which one you're doing.. But I'll simplify your opinion, or as you call it "argument".
1. Practically every field? Because you would consider that a logical assumption based on the fact that he was Kun's apprentice right? Interesting, so what does that say about his force abilities exactly? Nothing? Moving on.
2. Goodie, Nadd calling him one of the great ones, and this is quantified how? Anakin was "Zee chozen 0ne" so with your infallible logic that speaks volumes for him too right? Didn't think so.
3. Aleema's quote, I can just laugh at that one... See #2 in case you didn't understand it the first time.
4. Again, the poision examples speaks volumes for Ulic maybe, but how does that quantify his power compared to Malak and Sidious?
5. Another nice quote from the narrator... Quantify that power compared to the duo.
6. Great, and Sidious WAS dark side energy, as he was described, what's your point?
Way to go IKC, you've provided a bunch of quotes that are too ambiguous to quantify Ulic's force abilities in regards to his battle with a powerful duo, and you're argument about Ulic at the very least being equal to the duo in the force continues to be an unfounded, yet very carefully thought out assumption.. But I'm sure you'll throw out a definition with your next post....
Originally posted by IKC
That'd be nice if we didn't already know that, in his era, Ulic was second only to Exar Kun in practically every relevant field.
Oh...we know that ?
Apparently at least Nomi Sunrider is better than Ulic in handling a lightsaber and in terms of force powers. Thon and Ood Bnar would wtfpwn Ulic force wise.
There's also the fact that the spirit of Nadd, taunting Ulic, refers to him as one of the "great ones." Then he references Exar Kun, saying, "And there is another, even greater than you."
Nice for Ulic but Nadd was referring to Sith only. This is basically: "Hey. You will be a Sith Lord but the other dude will be stronger Sith Lord than you." and nothing more.
Aleema says that she "senses the Force is strong (in Ulic)."
Obi-Wan said the same thing about ANH Luke. ANH Luke = Ulic in terms of force powers ?
When Satal injected Ulic with Sith poison, Ulic's force-powered response was enough to wreck the torture droid he was strapped into, much of which was made out of stone. It was described by the narrator as, "A massive impulse of Force energy that blasts the young Jedi free of the droid's embrace"
ROTS Vader in suit destroyed the entire room in which he was in when Sidious told him about Padme's death. Vader > Ulic ?
When Ulic blasts his friends back after defeating Satal Keto, it's described by the narrator thusly: "But the process that has begun in Ulic builds to catastrophic levels... unleashing waves of dark side energy in his body and against his friends!" The panel shows Ulic in the center and a visible blast of energy knocking back Cay Qel-Droma and Tott Doneeta.
Nice. "With mounting anguish Luke and Leia watch the Emperor's rage take form, as a great storm of raw energy rends the fabric of space itself". Narrator's description of the force storm. DE Sidious > Ulic ?
When Kun is crowned and Ulic named his foremost apprentice, the narrator describes their joined power from Aleema's perspective: "As Aleema regains consciousness, she beholds an astonishing transformation in her lover Ulic... Ulic Qel-Droma and the intruder (Kun) are rippling with Dark-Side energy... more power than all her Sith magic has given her."
You mean Aleema who's Sith knowledge couldn't do anything but creating some (deadly) illusions ? The same Aleema that was effortlessly blocked force wise by Nomi Sunrider and fearfully put herself behind Ulic's back saying that "This woman wants to kill me" after it ? Yeah...I'm really surprised that Ulic is more powerful than that.
Anyway, your assumption that Ulic is mediocre in the Force is unfounded. His skill with the lightsaber over both opponents is great, and at the very least he is equal to both of them in Force combat.
He is inferior in terms of force powers compared to DE Sidious. Malak might be inferior to him and I'm pretty sure Ulic could take down both of them in a 1vs1 in a lightsaber battle but I doubt that he can take both at once.