Originally posted by Punker69
Dont show your maturity to quickly.
* you started it... so just ignore the smileys, eh? 😉
Originally posted by Punker69
Because they are one (John 10:30)
* one in what? the Father is Christ and Christ is the Father... wrong, dude...
"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are ."
John 17:11
* that's Their unity... ho ho ho, looky here -> Christ was talking to Himself again? nope... 🙄
Originally posted by Punker69
No, in the end the flesh of God will have completed its purpose. And the Son will be submerged into God's plan. God sent his son into the world to manifest God. Jesus was conceived in the womb and put on all the nature of humanity except sin. In the end the flesh will have completed its purpose and God is going to be all an all.
* you are now directly against the verse... re-read it please... wow, now God has a Son, i thought you said -> Christ is the Father... whoa... 😕
Originally posted by Punker69
Not it doesn't.
* can't refute? that's good... 😉
Originally posted by Punker69
Jesus speaking in his humanity.
* yeah right <sarcasm>... the Father is greater than Christ, who is Christ Himself, so Christ is greater than Himself... 😆
Originally posted by Punker69
Christ isn't "a god". He is God.
* Christ is not a God because He is God... Christ is a God He is the Only Begotten Son of God... 😉
Originally posted by Punker69
What are you talking about? You basically just proved a point I would make. That pasage of scripture describes Jesus and how he is from old and everlasting. He is the everlasting father.What point are you trying to make?
* that Christ, like the Father, is also everlasting... 😉
Originally posted by Punker69
I know the word was God. And the word was made flesh (John 1:14). So God was made flesh.So your saying 1/3 or God was made flesh. Correct?
* nope... in John 1:14, the Word was made flesh, not God... and take note...
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God , and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God ."
John 1:1-2
* yeah right <another sarcasm>... Christ was with Himself... 😉
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh , justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
I Timothy 3:16
* the One who was manifested in the flesh, was also the One who was justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory... and it is not the Father... it was Christ... 😉
"God is a Spirit : and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."God is neither totally male or female...........because you just quoted spirit....and a spirit can be neither.....
John 4:24* God is a spirit...
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit ."
John 3:6
AS for the trinity, that came from earlier pagan sources....As for god giving birth to a son.....not new either, Zeus did it amongst others....As for Jesus being THEE god........I don't think so. Why did it say in Genesis, "Let US make man in OUR image".....who was god speaking to?...If you can look at it that god is in all things including us and apart of things, then yes, Jesus was part of god, but so am I and so is my toaster... 😉
As a more science-religious integrated person (religous experience NOT organized religion), I believe the spirit has a genetic basis. If you have a Y, you're a male.
But that just my personal opinoin, but its not flawless, as you pointed out. I think your sex is part of your existance, its part of who you are.
Proof is something that rarely exists...and you're not going to find proof of spiritual existance. I don't know why you're lookin for it buddy 🙂
Originally posted by debbiejo
God is neither totally male or female...........because you just quoted spirit....and a spirit can be neither.....
* yes, He is... all angels are male too, and they are called the "sons of God"... 😉
Originally posted by debbiejo
AS for the trinity, that came from earlier pagan sources...
* the doctrine of Trinity is not really Biblical... Trinity means the equality of the three persons of their god, but that's not what the Bible says... the Bible says the Father is greater than Christ... 😉
Originally posted by debbiejo
As for god giving birth to a son.....not new either, Zeus did it amongst others....
* in the Greek/Roman mythology, Zeus/Jupiter used different bodies to seed any female he wants, and did it discreetly so his wife Hera/Juno won't know it...
* God the Father doesn't have any wives, and He Himself gave birth to Christ (who, in the beginning is also a spirit - The Word, The Wisdom)... God only chose Mary to gave birth to the flesh manifestation of Christ by the intervention of the Holy Spirit... so do not assume that the Father Himself came down to "do it" with Mary, 'coz it's kinda stupid... 😉
Originally posted by debbiejo
As for Jesus being THEE god........I don't think so.
* Christ is not THE God... Christ is a God... 😉
Originally posted by debbiejo
Why did it say in Genesis, "Let US make man in OUR image".....who was god speaking to?...
* the Father was speaking with the One who is also in His image and likeness, that is why He said -> "our image" & "our likeness"...
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person , and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
Hebrews 1:1-3
"Who is the image of the invisible God , the firstborn of every creature:"
Colossians 1:15
* oh, and in case you don't consider these verses because of the writer...
"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father ; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"
John 14:9
* see? 😉
Originally posted by debbiejo
If you can look at it that god is in all things including us and apart of things, then yes, Jesus was part of god, but so am I and so is my toaster... 😉
* i disagree... God is not in all things... but i might say, all good things are the manifestation of the power, the glory and the goodness of God... 😉
Originally posted by debbiejo
A physical body is only a casing for what is underneath....or your essence...If you believe in reincarnation, and still if you don't...and believe more the bible way......why would your spirit need to have a sex...there would be no procreation in heaven.
* the spirits do not populate by sex... they ARE spirits... 😉
Originally posted by peejayd
* the Father was speaking with the One who is also in His image and likeness, that is why He said -> "our image" & "our likeness"..."God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person , and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
Hebrews 1:1-3"Who is the image of the invisible God , the firstborn of every creature:"
Colossians 1:15* oh, and in case you don't consider these verses because of the writer...
"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father ; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"
John 14:9
I dont understand. The Bible calls Jesus the "only begotten son" (John 3:16). Not an eternal son. The son only came into substantial existence at the time of the incarnation. How could God the Father be talking to his son when his existence was only that of a plan in the mind of God.
The word begotten is in the form of a verb which means to father or to sire. In order for there to be a begotten son there has to be a point in time where the son did not substantial exist in which the beget or the creater did exist. The word begotten indicates a specific point in time in which the conception takes place.
Every scripture you've given point to one God revealed in Jesus Christ. I dont see the point your trying to make. Jesus said to Phillip "he who hath seen me HATH SEEN THE FATHER". In which way are you trying to twist scripture around to prove your point. Because it seems pretty straightfoward to me.
Jesus is made in the image of the invisible God. He is made in Gods image just like we are but more than that he is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE God. He is the epress image of God. All those scriptures point to God being fully revealed in Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by peejayd
the Bible says the Father is greater than Christ...
I again, believe this passage of scripture is reffering to Jesus's humanity. Speaking in his flesh and adressing the spirit of God that is in him (John 14:11).
I also think your missing other key passages of scripture in that same Chapter. Such as Philip asking Jesus to show the Father and it would satisfy him. Jesus replied and said that he who hath seen Jesus hath seen the FATHER John 14:9
Also John 14:1 says that he who believe in Jesus believe in God.
The Bible also says in Matthew 28:19
"Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." (NIV)
John 5:18
"Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."
Do we have a contradiction of scripture here? No, we have Jesus reffering to his humanity while adressing the spirit of God that dwelleth in him.
Originally posted by Punker69
I dont understand. The Bible calls Jesus the "only begotten son" (John 3:16). Not an eternal son. The son only came into substantial existence at the time of the incarnation. How could God the Father be talking to his son when his existence was only that of a plan in the mind of God.
* dude, in other posts you made, you have said that Christ is God... how can you say now that the Son is a plan in God's mind? are you implying that God is a plan in His own mind? 😕
* Christ exists in the beginning with the Father...
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God , and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God ."
John 1:1-2
* Christ had glory from the Father before the foundation of the world... Christ was also loved by the Father before the foundation of the world...
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was .
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world ."
John 17:5, 24
* They are with each other in the beginning...
Originally posted by Punker69
The word begotten is in the form of a verb which means to father or to sire. In order for there to be a begotten son there has to be a point in time where the son did not substantial exist in which the beget or the creater did exist. The word begotten indicates a specific point in time in which the conception takes place.
* yes, there is... Christ was begotten by the Father before His (the Father) works of old, before the creation of all things, before the foundation of the world...
"The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was."
Proverbs 8:22-23
* this is Christ speaking as the Wisdom of God...
Originally posted by Punker69
Every scripture you've given point to one God revealed in Jesus Christ. I dont see the point your trying to make. Jesus said to Phillip "he who hath seen me HATH SEEN THE FATHER". In which way are you trying to twist scripture around to prove your point. Because it seems pretty straightfoward to me.
* nope, i'm not twisting the Scriptures, dude... Christ never said that He is the Father... Christ said to Philip, "... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father..." because He is the image of the Father, it should not be taken straightforwardly... the Father was not seen nor will be seen by humans...
"Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see : to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."
I Timothy 6:16
* i'm not twisting the Scrpitures, you just have a wrong interpretation...
Originally posted by Punker69
Jesus is made in the image of the invisible God. He is made in Gods image just like we are but more than that he is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE God. He is the epress image of God. All those scriptures point to God being fully revealed in Jesus Christ.
* if Christ was made in the image of the invisible God, how can Christ be the Father? i think you are the one who's twisting the Scriptures, dude, 'coz you can't associate what your saying in accordance with the Bible...
Originally posted by Punker69
I again, believe this passage of scripture is reffering to Jesus's humanity. Speaking in his flesh and adressing the spirit of God that is in him (John 14:11).
"Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake."
John 14:11
* so when Christ is speaking in His humanity, there comes a separation between His Godhood? i thought you said earlier, God was made flesh? you are in contrary of yourself...
* read this...
"And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me .
It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true ."
John 8:16-17
* how many are They? They are two... justify your statement now that Christ is the Father...
Originally posted by Punker69
I also think your missing other key passages of scripture in that same Chapter. Such as Philip asking Jesus to show the Father and it would satisfy him. Jesus replied and said that he who hath seen Jesus hath seen the FATHER John 14:9
* because seeing the image of God is equivalent to seeing God... that's what Christ meant...
Originally posted by Punker69
Also John 14:1 says that he who believe in Jesus believe in God.
* let's read...
"Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me."
John 14:1
* i believe in God, and i ALSO believe in Christ... but that statement still does not imply that Christ is the Father...
Originally posted by Punker69
The Bible also says in Matthew 28:19
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost :"
Matthew 28:19
* it's clear -> the Son is NOT the Father...
Originally posted by Punker69
"Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." (NIV)John 5:18
"Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."
Do we have a contradiction of scripture here? No, we have Jesus reffering to his humanity while adressing the spirit of God that dwelleth in him.
* no contradiction... but this isn't sufficient enough to prove that Christ is the Father...
Originally posted by Punker69
Peejayd, dont worry. I have forgotten about your above post. I will post a reply. I've just been busy. I'll get to it.
* sure, no problem... 😉
Punker and Peejayd...
Technically there is a Science to your debate. Although you are debating within the BOUNDS and LIMITS of the Bible, you are still doing "research", asking questions, and trying to back up your own beleifs/hypothesis.
DAMN....I'm impressed !
But question: Why disregard Science in other cases ? Especially when it contradicts what you beleive ?
yes, He is... all angels are male too, and they are called the "sons of God"...Just as god said let us make "Man" in our image........Man meaning mankind..............as Jesus said he was the son of man...Man meaning mankind..............No gender to angels.....no purpose for it just as the god has no gender....only a pronoun which is used to denote wisdom as female, and Jesus was said to be Wisdom.
The originial word for god is "El"