And again, even at their height of collusion and peak physical training, the two of them could not mount a serious assault against him. And since Vader's gotten slower, less dextrous, and lost force potential and power, and Obi-Wan hasn't fought anyone for twenty years and couldn't beat Vader when they met on the Death Star, there's absolutely no reason to believe that the two of them would overcome Dooku. If anything, they'd have less of a chance by the time of the OT than by ROTS.
Tell that to the Inquisitorius Obi-wan killed. Yaddle hadn't fought anyone in a century, but she managed to kill Warlord Kulat, after increasing her force ability in captivity for over a century and she didn't have Qui-Gon's spirit guiding her. As for Vader: Still very fast and powerful, gained in actual power from Anakin Skywalker...
Originally posted by jollyjim311
That's mature. So, Vader and Ben win? Because, Janus, I'm just going to ignore your rebuttals.
Wow, I leave for five seconds and the Vader Fans Incorporated all cluster here and start power chatting.
And yes, I am ignoring Mader's post. He posts like once a month, and never with more than five active brain cells at a time. If you couldn't get that from reading all of his posts (including the necromanc'd threads he brought back from the grave) then I'm sorry you can't see where I'm coming from.
And again, I ask all of you:
CAN YOU MAKE A CONVINCING ARGUMENT FOR WHY VADER AND OBI-WAN WILL MESH TOGETHER PERFECTLY AND BE ABLE TO DEFEAT COUNT DOOKU?
Instead of nitpicking, or saying "Zomg Yaddle beat someone!" (Yes, cuz she was a jedi master in the jedi temple... a bit different from being a hermit on a desert planet for twenty years), try and make a good argument. I made an excellent one, complete with animations and everything. You guys are just riding Vader's nuts and being ridiculous.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Actually, Janus? Yaddle was locked up underground for a century and was a padawan when she was imprisoned.
Terrific. That's wonderful for her. But last I checked, she isn't Obi-Wan or Vader. She isn't even of the same race. So the observation is pretty damn assinine. If sitting around means you still get powerful for everyone, then I'm getting stronger as I type this paragraph. When I get off work tonight, I'm going to go take on a biker gang. I should be pretty damn uber from not working out. Seriously. Tip top shape.
We know both Obi-wan and Vader had excellent training since and improved,
We do? Can you prove this? Yoda handed Obi-Wan a datapad to study while he was out in the middle of nowhere. Now, considering that he could only train with uh.... himself, how does this mean he went from the strutting jedi master before who got absolutely floored by Dooku with minimal effort, to being someone who can hang? You haven't established that he's got any better, and begging the question won't help you either.
Obi-wan's power in the force deepened
Really? Prove this. Establish it. Don't just claim it and then expect me to believe it. Prove to me that ANH Obi-Wan is a match for Dooku, don't just claim it.
and Vader killed numerous, numerous Jedi. And other enemies.
Prove that he's a duellist on par with Count Dooku at this point. Prove to me that those he defeated were on par with a Makashi master and jedi master gone sith. Show me some evidence. I don't want to see:
Obi-Wan is better. Vader is better. Yaddle can pwn some noob. They both got better. Their knowledge increased. They will win.
That's called "not making an argument".
Once again: Obi-wan and Vader weren't being idle whatsoever. Obi-wan was training practically every day with Qui-Gon. He was around the galaxy at several points, from Last of the Jedi. And Anakin killed The Dark Woman, numerous jedi at the same time, surpassed the state of Anakin Skywalker where he was able to go toe to toe with Dooku, and at that point, he was described as the finest Djem So specialist Dooku had ever seen.
You know, there's a reason why I hate debating with you- and it's because you just ramble off shit and you don't bother to cite anything.
1. I want to know what source you used to find out that Obi-Wan trained.
2. I want to know the quality of that training. I want to know how much Obi-Wan grew in powere. I want to see something that will show he won't get tooled like he did before.
3. I'd like to see the Dark Woman's power quantified. Same with the other jedi he defeated. Again, are these people as dangerous and deadly as Dooku? Dooku who mastered the saber to saber form? Dooku who went toe to toe with Yoda? Dooku who can casually choke jedi master Obi-Wan and throw him like a ragdoll while casually backkicking Anakin?
4. Show me exactly where OT Vader "surpassed the state of Anakin Skywalker as of ROTS".
When you learn to add PROOF to your arguments and learn how to CITE things, we might get somewhere.
Sources of Obi's training: ROTS, Last of the Jedi
Clone Wars, Dark Woman, AKA An'Ya Kuro is called one of the most formidable Jedi in the order. Ki-Adi Mundi says something to the sort as well in the hunt for Aurra Sing. As deadly and dangerous as Dooku? Of course not. And Dooku ran away from Yoda, when he realized there was no way he wasn't winning that fight. AOTC novelization as source, along with comics.
As for Vader and Anakin: ROTS novelization, Vader would become stronger than his uncrippled state, but would never reach the level of potential