This is true...
http://www.geocities.com/starlamedra2/sexyluke2.jpg
Hamill...he was sexxxxxxxxxy back in the day
😂
No one can defeat Gay Luke!
💃
This is true...
http://www.geocities.com/starlamedra2/sexyluke2.jpg
Hamill...he was sexxxxxxxxxy back in the day
😂
No one can defeat Gay Luke!
💃
Originally posted by Lightsnake
And we've seen Luke form a shield around himself to block AT AT fire, be good enough to square off with Vader (ROTJ novelization the source there), and he's also good and strong enough to strike the fire back at said war mech...even by DE, Luke's skills are extremely formidable, especially after learning the forbidden Jedi and Sith arts.
And we've seen Mace destroying an entire army of battle droids on his own when he didn't have his lightsaber for a great part of the fight and on top of that he destroyed the seismic tank.
Somehow this is more impressive than Luke blocking some heavy blasterfire (which was done by Tott Doneeta too) or redirecting said blasterfire (in AotC you can see Mace deflecting six blaster bolts in less than 2 second and this is nothing compared to the things he pulls off in "Shatterpoint"😉.
But, feel free to argue against my opinion on the Leia thing...might be the source book was wrong, might be that it wasn't. Nothing big enough to launch pages long debates over
Original source > Sourcebook and the source shows us clearly that Leia was helping Luke. I don't see any point to argue here.
Mace's shatterpoint ability isn't infallible either...Case in point: Sidious and Anakin.
Where did it fail, huh ? Even according to the novel he saw Sidious Shatterpoint (Anakin) and that gave him the ability to disarm Sidious. It's just that he sees binding points in the force and not that he can look into the future.
And this isn't the same Palpatine that Mace fought in Coruscant...this is the 'living embodiment of the Dark Side' Palpatine, whose final, and achievable goal was to shed loose his mortal body and become the Dark Side
Wow...and I thought that Sidious wanted to pocess body after body to live forever. Windu still does have more training, more saber skill and more force control compared to DE Luke. The same way Obi-Wan had more force control compared to Anakin and therefor could stalemate him in the "force push" situation. Luke simply doesn't have a chance to win this...just because he doesn't have enough training / control.
Firstly, the AT-AT stoppage was pretty damn impressive, and then the ability to take it down was even more impressive. Secondly, I just realized, and this may be incorrect, but Palpatine's ability to cheat death through the way he did may have not been Plageuis' technique. If you look at TOTJ, Exar Kun learned that same technique from the notes of Sadow, so if it is the same technique, which I believe it is, then Plagueis didn't develop it at all.
Originally posted by tdtd
Firstly, the AT-AT stoppage was pretty damn impressive, and then the ability to take it down was even more impressive.
If blocking a few shots from an AT-AT is impressive, blocking over a dozen bolts of automatic turbolaser fire from a pair of turrets on a gunship must be. . . I dunno, you think of an adjective. And using the Force to bring down an AT-AT is pretty good, but what do you think of tearing down, manipulating, and then suspending a cliff with ''hundreds'' of tons of rock and earth.
And we've seen Mace destroying an entire army of battle droids on his own when he didn't have his lightsaber for a great part of the fight and on top of that he destroyed the seismic tank.
Somehow this is more impressive than Luke blocking some heavy blasterfire (which was done by Tott Doneeta too) or redirecting said blasterfire (in AotC you can see Mace deflecting six blaster bolts in less than 2 second and this is nothing compared to the things he pulls off in "Shatterpoint"😉.
In the cartoon...and Tott's a weakling suddenly? Plus, the far more primitive fighters of that era compared to the AT AT mechs of Luke's era.
Original source > Sourcebook and the source shows us clearly that Leia was helping Luke. I don't see any point to argue here.
Except it provided an image you interpreted one way. And if Original sources are better than sourcebooks, why is Kadann alive and why is the 'First Schism' now Xendor's rise?
Where did it fail, huh ? Even according to the novel he saw Sidious Shatterpoint (Anakin) and that gave him the ability to disarm Sidious. It's just that he sees binding points in the force and not that he can look into the future.
Palpatine's shatterpoint, the Shatterpoint of the Dark Side itself: That he trusted Anakin. And the problem is, Sidious was absolutely, one hundred percent right in that trust. Mace was too busy looking for Palpatine's shatterpoint that he couldn't see Anakin's
Wow...and I thought that Sidious wanted to pocess body after body to live forever. Windu still does have more training, more saber skill and more force control compared to DE Luke. The same way Obi-Wan had more force control compared to Anakin and therefor could stalemate him in the "force push" situation. Luke simply doesn't have a chance to win this...just because he doesn't have enough training / control.
Living forever to becoming the dark side itself, which sounds better? I take what the material says....and Windu has more saber skill? Luke was able to match Vader well enough in ROTJ, has demonstrated a more than ample grasp of the force, and when has length of training ever mattered in SW? And show me an Anakin when he's not out of his mind with grief and rage
Originally posted by Lightsnake
In the cartoon...
''Mace's troops were decimated by the terrible power of a seismic tank, and even though he was temporarily disarmed in the confusion of the battlefield, Mace was able to single-handedly defeat the droid forces and destroy the tank.''
and Tott's a weakling suddenly? Plus, the far more primitive fighters of that era compared to the AT AT mechs of Luke's era.
Compared to the greats of any given era? Yeah, Tott's a small fry. And while I agree that Luke's use of the Force is more impressive than Doneeta's, it's not nearly enough to put him above Mace, whose perception and connection to the Force as a seven year-old dwarfed that of most Jedi Masters.
Except it provided an image you interpreted one way. And if Original sources are better than sourcebooks, why is Kadann alive and why is the 'First Schism' now Xendor's rise?
So a reference guide to an actual source / event is more useful and accurate than the source of the information itself? Is a book written in 2006 on Roman culture and tradition more accurate and reliable than a firsthand observation of such traditions themselves?
Palpatine's shatterpoint, the Shatterpoint of the Dark Side itself: That he trusted Anakin. And the problem is, Sidious was absolutely, one hundred percent right in that trust. Mace was too busy looking for Palpatine's shatterpoint that he couldn't see Anakin's
And Mace ended up realizing this, albeit a moment too late. But unless Luke is going to have Dorsk 81 jump in and maim a stunned Windu for him, this singular, highly exaggerated mishap in his ability won't matter at all.
I take what the material says....and Windu has more saber skill? Luke was able to match Vader well enough in ROTJ
A conflicted and controversial battle at best. And Vader himself has nothing on Mace, so I don't see where this is going.
has demonstrated a more than ample grasp of the force,
How? By blocking a few blasts from an AT-AT, when Mace has shown himself to be capable of even greater, if different, abilities?
and when has length of training ever mattered in SW?
When Obi-Wan's control and expertise in the Force allowed him to stalemate a less experienced, but far more powerful enemy, and in end had the elder Jedi strewing Anakin's limbs across the slopes of Mustafar.
And show me an Anakin when he's not out of his mind with grief and rage
Numerous battles in Obsession, The Defense of Kamino, Labyrinth of Evil, and several more occasions.
Originally posted by Faunus
''Mace's troops were decimated by the terrible power of a seismic tank, and even though he was temporarily [b]disarmed in the confusion of the battlefield, Mace was able to single-handedly defeat the droid forces and destroy the tank.''Compared to the greats of any given era? Yeah, Tott's a small fry. And while I agree that Luke's use of the Force is more impressive than Doneeta's, it's not nearly enough to put him above Mace, whose perception and connection to the Force as a seven year-old dwarfed that of most Jedi Masters.
So a reference guide to an actual source / event is more useful and accurate than the source of the information itself? Is a book written in 2006 on Roman culture and tradition more accurate and reliable than a firsthand observation of such traditions themselves?
And Mace ended up realizing this, albeit a moment too late. But unless Luke is going to have Dorsk 81 jump in and maim a stunned Windu for him, this singular, highly exaggerated mishap in his ability won't matter at all.
A conflicted and controversial battle at best. And Vader himself has nothing on Mace, so I don't see where this is going.
How? By blocking a few blasts from an AT-AT, when Mace has shown himself to be capable of even greater, if different, abilities?
When Obi-Wan's control and expertise in the Force allowed him to stalemate a less experienced, but far more powerful enemy, and in end had the elder Jedi strewing Anakin's limbs across the slopes of Mustafar.
Numerous battles in Obsession, The Defense of Kamino, Labyrinth of Evil, and several more occasions. [/B]
And we know Luke can destroy more advanced machines...Luke's even been stated to have the raw power that can destroy star destroyers.
And Luke? Who after several years of late training could square off with Vader and was considered the greatest threat the Sith faced?
In some cases, yes, the reference guide is more useful than the source material. According to one of the authors, they're all on the same level and comics and books supercede nothing if LFL decides to change it. All are C-canon.
Highly exaggerated? Mace pretty much ignored what was complete and true emotional agitation from someone who was declaring how much he needed Palp.
Vader has nothing on Mace? Same Vader who squared off with eight jedi masters, slaughtered about twenty knights on Hapes, killed the Dark Woman and made the entirety of the royal guard look like chumps, the Vader whose younger form was a match for Count Dooku?
Obi was also Anakin's teacher, fighting with a cooler head and knew Anakin inside and out. He won because Anakin made a horrible error that he never would've made if his head was clear
My point exactly: When Anakin's in control, he tends to win.
Sorry it took me so long to write up a reply, Nai.
Originally posted by Borbarad
What ? He was Sidious personal advisior when Sidious was a Senator meaning until 32 BBY at max. And since he was born in 70 BBY he most likely took that position when he was more than 30 years old.
30 years old, perhaps, but he had maybe 15 years of training, as he wasn't trained from birth. I think he was 17 when he began his training, but I'm away from home, so I can't look it up.
Also note that Jorus progressed extremely rapidly. It took him two years with a Master to become a Jedi Knight.
Originally posted by Borbarad
And obviously he wasn't part of the Jedi Council so he isn't that special...
Also notice that the main contact of the Jedi Council to the Supreme Chancelor was Mace himself, not Jorus.
Since when have only special Jedi been part of the Jedi Council? What about Luminara, Sora, Depa, Vos, Echuu, ect. All very powerful, yet not on the Council.
Originally posted by Borbarad
You simply ignore the effects of Dark Side use. Sidious was able to keep an entire planet population (Byss) under control and this is the guy who Dooku thought would get destroyed by a Dark Side Yoda.
Oh, so suddenly Dooku was talking not about ROTS Sidious, but DE Sidious. Just the guy with a brand new body and 25 years of experince over his former self.
And if the effects of the are so great, then why wouldn't Dooku totally pwn Mace now that he is on the Darkside, since even when he was on the lightside he was slightly better then him. Dooku's statement is shaky at best.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Did you watch ESB ? 😛
Yes. I wasn't talking about ESB though.
Originally posted by Borbarad
He did cut off Sidious hand in a lightsaber fight but he had help from Leia at this point (probably using a basic version of battle meditation). And Luke in the first NJO book still had 15 years of training advantage compared to his DE self, not even mentioning his actual combat experience (fights against former students, the Calista trilogy, the Black Fleet crisis) and his additional knowledge gaining.
Even if we take out the extra experince from those fifteen years, he was still strong enough to defeat DE Sidious in lightsaber combat with out help, as I will explain below.
"Battle meditation was a manifestation of the Force which instilled in the meditator's allies a greater morale in battle and reduced the enemy's will to fight. Using the Force, one could coordinate entire fleets of ships, allowing them to perform at maximum efficiency, acting as one to counter every enemy move quickly and effectively. "
I don't see how battle meditation helped coordinate Luke when he was fighting alone, so it did nothing in that area. Furthermore, Sidious has been waiting for several years to get his revenge on Luke since Luke fuked up his Empire. I doubt Leia's level of battle meditation would have ANY affect on Sidious. I don't see how Leia helped him.
Originally posted by Borbarad
The simple fact that Mace had 5 times the training time and a more formal training compared to Luke, not even talking about far more battle experience when it came to the "jedi way" of fighting (force use, lightsaber combat).
Did it help him that much? Does that automatically mean that Mace is better then Luke? Look at Exar Kun and Yoda. Exar is more powerful then Yoda, yet Yoda has more then ten times the experince and training.
Originally posted by Borbarad
First Luke did that after the DE comics (Black Fleet trilogy - 16 ABY) and he manipulated the force directly creating a sort of "loop" in it. The amount of actual force energy needed to do that is unknown since it's based on an entire different philosophy of force used compare to the one the Jedi have.
Luke must be pretty capable if he was able to make such great strides in efficient force usuage in such a little time. I don't think Luke was able to make a new force version that is better then the one that the entire Jedi Order refined for 25,000 years after maybe 20 years of learning.
Originally posted by Borbarad
He did fight Vader two times (three if you include SotME) and Sidious two times. Then you have him facing Luuke, Joruus and Mara Jade and that is what with lightsaber combat / confronting force users (in the time of DE).
Mace confronted Dooku, Grievous, Depa, Kar Vastor, Quinlan Vos, 3 of Dooku's Dark Acolytes and Sidious. Not to mention that he used to duel with Yoda and Dooku as both have bested him.
Firstly, Mace fought the Dark Acolytes from the cockpit of a tank, not with a lightsaber. Kar Vastor was not lightsaber to lightsaber either. And he never even really tried against Depa, meaning he couldn't have become much better. The same is true for Vos. If you sword fight with someone who knows barely anything about sword fighting, you aren't going to become as strong as if you only fought sword fighters who are really good.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Yes...I'm perfectly sure that Luke has a superior strength compared to the guy who could compete with Kar Vastor in unarmed combat, hammered through durasteel battle droids with his bare hands and was trained in melee combat (armed and unarmed) for his entire life. I really doubt it.
Are the CW cartoons suddenly canon? I don't think so. If Mace was strong enough to punch through durasteel droids, why did so many Jedi die on Geonosis? He could have killed them all by himself if he fought like he did in CW cartoons. The answer is that he can't. Mace canonly cannot punch through durasteel droids.
As for Kar, I seem to remember Kar beating the living crap out of him. I don't call that comparing with Kar Vastor in unarmed combat. I call that getting defeated by Kar Vastor in unarmed combat.
Luke has demonstrated to be extremely capable physically in ROTJ and before.
As I stated earlier, Luke OVERPOWERED Vader in a saber lock. You know, the big metal guy who can lift a fully grown man over his head with his weak hand as his good hand had just been cut off while being electrocuted with a lethal amount of energy and having his oxygen supply go out. I would not be surprised if Vader is stronger then Kar.
Even before ROTJ, Luke defeated Guri in unarmed combat. She was a HRD with "superhuman strength".
...At the end of this interrogation, when her captors moved to remove the metal bonds they had trapped her with, she burst them herself in a dramatic show of superhuman strength.
Luke defeated her unarmed, before ROTJ, while in Xizor's Palace (her turf).
Something leads me to believe Luke would defeat him in both armed and unarmed combat.
One thing to add, Glentract. You can't compare Exar Kun and Yoda.. In fact you can't compare a sith and a Jedi, considering Yoda, as a Jedi, had a limit to what he could study or do, as all Jedi. The Sith on the other hand had no limits to what they could study or do, so that's not a good comparison. I could just as easily say that a dark side Yoda, with 900 years of dark side/light side knowledge, could skull**** any SW character..
Originally posted by Lightsnake
And considering Yoda's inferiority to Kun is in question, a bad comparison. And when Mace could look at the seismic tank and use the force alone to bring the thing down..
Firstly, the cartoons aren't canon. Second, Exar being better then Yoda really isn't in question, just take a look at some of IKC's proof from a while back.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yoda has been described as the 'the most powerful foe the darkness had ever known.' I don't think Kun's the strongest the darkness have ever had to offer
So Yoda is stronger then DN Luke? Good job proving that load of bull. The quote could easily have mean that Yoda was the strongest foe the Darkside had ever know not by his own strength, but by the strength of the hundreds of students he trained. You don't have to powerful to be someone's strongest foe.
Originally posted by tdtd
I'm saying it's not a good comparison because a good Sith>a good Jedi anyday.. You can compare them sure but it's not an even ground because you have an ideal based on restraint and limits and then you have an ideal based on no restraints, ergo limitless knowledge, power, and potential.
I don't see that as an valid argument. Fights aren't fair.
Originally posted by tdtd
I'm saying it's not a good comparison because a good Sith>a good Jedi anyday.. You can compare them sure but it's not an even ground because you have an ideal based on restraint and limits and then you have an ideal based on no restraints, ergo limitless knowledge, power, and potential.
I have always found the Jedi ideals weak, and pretty much a crutch on the Jedi because they hold them back, without being able to reach their potential. Yoda being as powerful as he was with all of these constraints speaks volumes about his power. I'm not saying he's stronger than Kun, because he's not. But as we recall, the new Jedi Ideals started by Luke seem to be the best ones. There's no light side, there's no dark side, blah blah blah, no constraints...