Originally posted by StyleTime
No you don't see them fend off multiple attackers anywhere but the movies. You're basing nearly everything you say off of some fantasy.You said it doesn't deserve "mixed". I told you just a few fighters who have vastly different fighting styles. I assure you there's far more, and MMA allows [B]ANY
hand to hand style to compete. It deserves to be called mixed. Let go of your bias.[/B]
Oh I acknowledge that there is more than one style in MMA; just not very many. You only see a few; it seriously lacks good variety.
Originally posted by StyleTime
Half nelson...🤨 Actually, the wrestler would probably just drop the guy on his neck and be on to the next. Not to mention, a kung fu stylist could get a beer bottle broken over his head too. Everyone is at the same disadvantage as far as style is concerned. However, you can't deal with multiple opponents if you can handle one.
As the wrestler is busy grappling one opponent, the others gang up on him like a pack of wolves.
Wrestling isn't very mobile like that.
Originally posted by StyleTime
I'm saying exactly what I said. Typically, kung fu places train with pulled hits, way to many pads on, or you just kick around at the air doing forms.
No dude, we conact train. I have no clue where you learned that.
Leaving with bruised up limbs is typical.
Originally posted by StyleTime
Listen for a second. If Fighter A beats Fighter B 3 times in a row. You'd say Fighter A is better. If kung fu consitently loses to other styles, why should it be any different? Since no kung fu fighter has ever won anything, you have no ground to stand on.1. Tito Ortiz isn't good. (Shoot I'd want him to lose to a kung fu guy)
2. Stop judging MMA by some mid level fighters in UFC.
3. No a kung fu master wouldn't.If you think kung fu is so great. It isn't hard to prove it. Go find a kickboxing, MMA, kyokushin karate or any full contact gym and tell them you think you can compete. I'm sure they'll happily find someone your size to show you the flaws of kung fu. Oh and bring some friend who one of your "multiple opponents" kung fu styles and have him or her fight several people from a gym like the the ones I listed. He should win since kung fu pwns multiple people right?
1.Tito is a typical MMA fighter and a suitable representative.
2. Since when is he mid level?
3. Yes he would. "Master" isn't just some fancy or abrtitrary word; it means something.
I spar regularly at a Taekwondo dojang. And your use of the word "flaws" is in fact flawed. There are many different styles and they all have different strangths/weaknesses. As an example, praying mantis and leopard are worlds apart. How vast is your kung fu knowledge?
Originally posted by Frigid Soul
Oh I acknowledge that there is more than one style in MMA; just not very many. You only see a few; it seriously lacks good variety.
I assure you kung fu had several chances to prove itself and it fell short pretty much every time. If you want to prove me wrong, then use proof. Stop just saying that kung fu CAN do this. Until we see this, kung fu will remain on a low rung on the metaphorical martial arts ladder.
Originally posted by Frigid Soul
As the wrestler is busy grappling one opponent, the others gang up on him like a pack of wolves.Wrestling isn't very mobile like that.
Originally posted by Frigid Soul
No dude, we conact train. I have no clue where you learned that.Leaving with bruised up limbs is typical.
Originally posted by Frigid Soul
1.Tito is a typical MMA fighter and a suitable representative.
2. Since when is he mid level?
3. Yes he would. "Master" isn't just some fancy or abrtitrary word; it means something.
Originally posted by Frigid Soul
I spar regularly at a Taekwondo dojang. And your use of the word "flaws" is in fact flawed. There are many different styles and they all have different strangths/weaknesses. As an example, praying mantis and leopard are worlds apart. How vast is your kung fu knowledge?
Originally posted by Frigid Soul
And your use of the word "flaws" is in fact flawed.
"A weakness in something immaterial".
I means seriously, you went and used the word the exact same way I did, but said I was wrong. Nice. Now, let's get back to the actual debate here. Someone usually resorts to stuff like what you posted when they realize they are wrong and have no valid proof.
P.S. I said try sparring at a kickboxing, MMA, or kyokushin karate gym.
Originally posted by M.T. STYLE
Muay Thai is by far the best martial arts. the roundhouse kicks(muay thai) has broke more human bones than any type of kicks.
Originally posted by bogen
Learn to research , Muay thai is great sure but tea kwon do kicks would well kick the shit outa them.
And and tea kwon do expert can crank out 1500 pounds of force with a spinng back kick.
Originally posted by M.T. STYLE
Muay Thai is by far the best martial arts. the roundhouse kicks(muay thai) has broke more human bones than any type of kicks.
Originally posted by Jim Reaper
Silva or Franklin tonight, any predictions? Not a big "Ace" fan, going with Silva by KO 1st or 2nd round.
Hyped about the the Pride event? I am ready for it but I must admit that the name is lame as hell. "Real Deal"!?? Who the hell names a fight event Real Deal?
Originally posted by StyleTime
Ok. This just brings us back to whole "what works" thing. The fighters eventually began using what actually wins fights. If you want to see a huge variety of styles, watch the very first UFCs. Seriously, they had ninjitsu, several styles of kung fu, various different karates, capoiera etc etc. Unfortunately, those styles conistently lost. That is why we see kickboxing/wrestling/boxing/MT/judo/etc now because that is what works.
Felix Lee Mitchell used kung fu. He lost to Frank Shamrock(Shootfighting)
Asbel Cancio used kung fu. He lost to Dave Beneteau (Judo).
David Levicki used kung fu. He lost to Johnny Rhodes (Karate)
Thaddeus Luster used kung fu. He lost to a Frank Hammaker (Sambo).I assure you kung fu had several chances to prove itself and it fell short pretty much every time. If you want to prove me wrong, then use proof. Stop just saying that kung fu CAN do this. Until we see this, kung fu will remain on a low rung on the metaphorical martial arts ladder.
Ok seriously, dropping someone on their head takes all of 2 seconds. I sparred wrestlers and I've seen what they can do as well as how fast they can do it. You seem to think it'll take them to hours to do anything. Don't forget that the average joe has no knowledge of grappling. It wouldn't take much effort for a wrestler to completely own an average dude. I've seen a 240 lb football player get his ass completely hand to him by a wrestler who weighed about 150.
Notice I said [B]typically
.
Does your gym have a website? Videos? I actually love to see how the sparring is. Believe it or not, I am all for traditional arts who train hardcore.1. That means you think it would take some kung fu MASTER to beat a sorry fighter. Not a good defense for kung fu eh?
2.You're right. Tito is lower than mid level. Chuck is mid level.
3.I wasn't arguing the definition. I said the master would lose.Cool. Incidently, I do Tae Kwon Do. Please, give me the name of the dojang or something. Most Tae Kwon Do dojangs train just like most kung fu places. They use point sparring, pulled attacks, and way too many forms. I have to spar with my friends from Muay Thai, wrestling, kickboxing, juijutsu, etc do get full contact.
I was going to leave this alone, but my use of the word is anything but improper. I don't know what dictionary you use but Webster says.
"A weakness in something immaterial".
I means seriously, you went and used the word the exact same way I did, but said I was wrong. Nice. Now, let's get back to the actual debate here. Someone usually resorts to stuff like what you posted when they realize they are wrong and have no valid proof.
P.S. I said try sparring at a kickboxing, MMA, or kyokushin karate gym. [/B]
I go to a local dojang here in Philly. It's an independant school and not affilliated with the ATA, ITA or any of that orinization crap. I don't take Taekwondo; I just go there to spar. As a kung fu practitioner, my kicks aren't nearly as powerful as the 'Taekwondoers', but when it comes to in-close hand fighting I almost always out do them. As you know, boxing (or for that matter using your hands) isn't exactly TKD's strongpoint.
I remember the early UFC's and how they had every imaginable fighting style and was truly mixed martial arts. After all the idea and purpose of UFC was to see how different styles fought eachother since most competitions were only same-style competitions. But you see, UFC isn't exactly an accurate depiction of how 2 different styles would fair against eachother. If you get into a barfight or a street-fight there's no ref, no rules against headbutting or lowblows, no makeshift weapons and your not barefoot while just wearing a tight pair of shorts. And in referrence to UFC's rules; using your nails for clawing and fishhooks is a fundemental in several kung fu styles such as leopard, tiger and praying mantis.
Originally posted by bogen
Learn to research , Muay thai is great sure but tea kwon do kicks would well kick the shit outa them.
And and tea kwon do expert can crank out 1500 pounds of force with a spinng back kick.
Absoutely. Tae Kwon Do kicks > Muay Thai kicks. TKD kicks are much faster and have more precision than MT kicks. Muay Thai kicks are roughly equivilent to what are refered to in Tae kwon do as "round kicks"; they lift the leg from the ground without chambering and depend on the dead weight of the shin to deliver the blow. Easy to block, and any drunk person can do it.
Originally posted by Frigid Soul
I go to a local dojang here in Philly. It's an independant school and not affilliated with the ATA, ITA or any of that orinization crap. I don't take Taekwondo; I just go there to spar. As a kung fu practitioner, my kicks aren't nearly as powerful as the 'Taekwondoers', but when it comes to in-close hand fighting I almost always out do them. As you know, boxing (or for that matter using your hands) isn't exactly TKD's strongpoint.I remember the early UFC's and how they had every imaginable fighting style and was truly mixed martial arts. After all the idea and purpose of UFC was to see how different styles fought eachother since most competitions were only same-style competitions. But you see, UFC isn't exactly an accurate depiction of how 2 different styles would fair against eachother. If you get into a barfight or a street-fight there's no ref, no rules against headbutting or lowblows, no makeshift weapons and your not barefoot while just wearing a tight pair of shorts. And in referrence to UFC's rules; using your nails for clawing and fishhooks is a fundemental in several kung fu styles such as leopard, tiger and praying mantis.
Absoutely. Tae Kwon Do kicks > Muay Thai kicks. TKD kicks are much faster and have more precision than MT kicks. Muay Thai kicks are roughly equivilent to what are refered to in Tae kwon do as "round kicks"; they lift the leg from the ground without chambering and depend on the dead weight of the shin to deliver the blow. Easy to block, and any drunk person can do it.
Actually, the early tournaments did allow headbutts, etc. The UFC eventually had to put more rules in because the government was banning the sport in so many areas. Also, why would they allow weapons in a hand-to-hand tournament? As for the nails thing, there other tournament than the UFC. Several Vale Tudo competition allow basically anything but you'd have to be in Australia and Brazil. Coincidentally, taijutsu(hand-to-hand ninjutsu) tends to see more victories in less rules but generally the dominant styles are the same.
As for the "mixed" part. The fighters now realize that you can't really win with just one style, so they take elements from several different styles by crosstraining. The reason many fighters today look the same is because most fighters are trying to apply the best mix of styles. These styles generally tend to be the simple, yet effective ones.
Muay Thai kicks aren't that easy to block due their penetrating power. As I said I do Tae Kwon Do and I've seen plenty of Tae Kwon Do jin outkicked by Muay Thai fighters. Granted, a Tae Kwon Do jin who trains as hardcore and as often as a Muay Thai fighter should be able to do better kicks, but don't automatically assume that to be true.
FrigidSoul, I highly recommend you look to something other than UFC. The fighters aren't great(save for a few) and it shouldn't the one tournament you judge MMA by. Try checking out K-1 Heroes or watching more Pride sometime. There is an entire world full of fighters out there. The UFC represents such a small portion of these fighters. I honestly feel your opinion would be changed if you'd watch some other fight circuits. Here is a video of Kid Yamamoto vs Miyata. The knockout is about 3 seconds into the first round literally and with a technique you aren't going to see in the UFC. Seriously, try some other tournaments before you just write off MMA like that. Hell, I love MMA and I don't really even watch UFC anymore. It just can't get me hyped like other tournaments with better fighters can.
Anyway, enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isIQJcsICQ8
P.S. Watch the replay at the end. The move looks so much cooler in slow-mo.
Originally posted by bogen
Learn to research , Muay thai is great sure but tea kwon do kicks would well kick the shit outa them.
And and tea kwon do expert can crank out 1500 pounds of force with a spinng back kick.
Well this is just one example, but my 1st opponent was a TKD guy, and I won in 22 seconds... I train Muay Thai by the way.
Originally posted by StyleTimeDidn't have any predictions but apparently Silva won in the first.
Hyped about the the Pride event? I am ready for it but I must admit that the name is lame as hell. "Real Deal"!?? Who the hell names a fight event Real Deal?
Franklin was destroyed dude...Silva rearranged his nose for him, nasty.
Yeah, "Real Deal," is a awesome card, should be good. Big fight for Belfort, a win against Hendo would be huge.
as a kid i've trained in Judo, JiuJitsu, and Tae Kwon Do.
i have always considered Tae Kwon Do a way of relaxing the mind, and becoming more flexible. I have never considered it a way of fighting. In my opinion, it is somewhat simplistic, but somewhat still effective.
I prefer Kickboxing/Muay Thai in all aspects, but that's just my preference.
Originally posted by -hh-
there is no such thing as a "best martial arts", every technique is different and provides ways of defeating the opponent or simply defending yourself.
That's precisely what I'm saying.
Originally posted by M.T. STYLE
Tai kwon do fighter vs muay thai fighter = muay thai fighter wins with ease
Depends on the fighters. And you're obviously biased.
Originally posted by StyleTime
As for the nails thing, there other tournament than the UFC.
But using nails is a fundamental in several kung fu styles, and the rules are basically denying them of one of their strengths. That's like not letting a Muay Thai fighter use kicks.