Resident Evil 5

Originally posted by DarkC
Just for the record, my favourite RE games were 1 and 4. More four, really.

One's just a great classic, remade on GCN, four takes in a wild new direction.

Wasn't Barry integral in Wesker's efforts to terminate the evidence of Umbrella's delving into biological weaponry and experimentation, at the Spencer Mansion, and whose actions released Tyrant in the first place?

I was under the impression that he was blackmailed by Wesker (that actually had turned out to be a bluff) that his family was under watch by Umbrella soldiers and would shoot them unless Barry complied and helped him.

Yeah he was, but that wasn't making Barry a main character in any of the games or stories, just reason for him to appear a traitor. That role too could have been filled by Jill, and Jill's role by Barry. The roles weren't written specifically for them as Chris's was. Barry, however, always did seem like they WANTED to write something for him, so maybe he'll become a main guy.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Which is precisely why many people consider her a main character, because she was there - among other reasons - to cash in on Lara Croft's existence.

People considering her sprite to be sexually attractive does not give her the rights to being a main character.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
main character...but she was in RE1, she was the main character in RE 3...doesn't that give her props?

She was in RE 1 as nothing more than an extra difficulty and female sprite (As female heroines became common at that time.). She didn't add anything to the story, nor was she part of it in anyway that made it her own. It was Chris's game. Barry had a bigger part than her, he played a part in the story, Jill was just a secondary, easier means to play through it.

She was the main character in 3, but not a main character in the story. 3 was not a game that added ANYTHING to the story. It simply showed you "This was happening while this was, and while we're at it, here, play as Jill so it doesn't seem entirely disconnected.". If you removed 3, nothing would suffer, and if you put anybody in 3 BESIDES Jill, neither would that game.

3 was the tale of a survivor, the survivor just happened to be Jill Valentine for familiarity purposes. She's very well liked for SOME reason (Perhaps cos she's easier and a woman.), and as a result, people do not wish to face facts and say "Ok, she's not a main character.".

If they MAKE her one, fine, but she isn't crucial to the story.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
She was in RE 1 as nothing more than an extra difficulty and female sprite (As female heroines became common at that time.). She didn't add anything to the story, nor was she part of it in anyway that made it her own. It was Chris's game. Barry had a bigger part than her, he played a part in the story, Jill was just a secondary, easier means to play through it.

She was the main character in 3, but not a main character in the story. 3 was not a game that added ANYTHING to the story. It simply showed you "This was happening while this was, and while we're at it, here, play as Jill so it doesn't seem entirely disconnected.". If you removed 3, nothing would suffer, and if you put anybody in 3 BESIDES Jill, neither would that game.

3 was the tale of a survivor, the survivor just happened to be Jill Valentine for familiarity purposes. She's very well liked for SOME reason (Perhaps cos she's easier and a woman.), and as a result, people do not wish to face facts and say "Ok, she's not a main character.".

If they MAKE her one, fine, but she isn't crucial to the story.

-AC

As long as people can separate their attraction to her with the idea that she is a main character, it's all good.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
well, she still looks good while kicking ass.

It isn't any body's fault except his own that he thinks women can't be main characters, and because they don't look ugly he feels the need to carry on like this. We sure don't see him carrying on about how the female users at gamefaqs love Leon and Steve. Meanwhile a lot of guys who play games can agree female characters like Jill, and Lara Croft are quite bad ass, and don't feel the need to talk down about a character who's most realistic feature is a voice-over actress.

Originally posted by JToTheP
It isn't any body's fault except his own that he thinks women can't be main characters, and because they don't look ugly he feels the need to carry on like this. We sure don't see him carrying on about how the female users at gamefaqs love Leon and Steve. Meanwhile a lot of guys who play games can agree female characters like Jill, and Lara Croft are quite bad ass, and don't feel the need to talk down about a character who's most realistic feature is a voice-over actress.

Originally posted by DarkC
It's nothing to do the looks or her abilities, J; I personally know the Resident Evil plot somewhat well, having read the novels (despite the fact that they are non-canon essentially) and I agree with AC's assessment. Neither in-game nor in the novels does she hold or make any significant contribution towards the overall plot. While she's definitely a cool character and attractive, she's not a vital factor to the story.

I know the story well myself, I have the Archives book, I know vaguely from Survivor 1, and Dead Aim take place in the story as well. I myself want many of the plot holes filled. I just don't see how you two can say she isn't essential when Wesker makes it so bluntly clear that he would love to kill Barry, Jill, and Chris himself. I suppose that isn't contribution at all if you're not too busy playing cut-scene superhero like Leon, or Chris in 5. I just don't see how you and him could say 3 isn't of importance when the city was DESTROYED at the end, and Jill killed Nemesis.

Originally posted by JToTheP
I know the story well myself, I have the Archives book, I know vaguely from Survivor 1, and Dead Aim take place in the story as well. I myself want many of the plot holes filled. I just don't see how you two can say she isn't essential when Wesker makes it so bluntly clear that he would love to kill Barry, Jill, and Chris himself. I suppose that isn't contribution at all if you're not too busy playing cut-scene superhero like Leon, or Chris in 5. I just don't see how you and him could say 3 isn't of importance when the city was DESTROYED at the end, and Jill killed Nemesis.

Leon's contribution in four to the plot was central, it was he who uncovered the Plaga and he who was tasked with rescuing Ashley and disinfecting them both. This is an instance where the game-wise main character is a plot-wise main character also. Chris's exact contribution to the plot for five remains a mystery, but he's central to the plot as well.

You seem to also be forgetting that the Nemesis wasn't the only one of its kind, it was just another Tyrant, albeit a powerful one and it sure as hell didn't have a real part of the overall plot; one Tyrant seeker was sent to kill STARS, that's the one Jill encounters, and one sent to recover tissue samples from T-Virus inhabitants. Remember, it was not because of Jill at all that the city got blown up, Umbrella was going to nuke the city to smithereens whether she was there or not, she just happened to manage to escape.

Originally posted by JToTheP
It isn't any body's fault except his own that he thinks women can't be main characters, and because they don't look ugly he feels the need to carry on like this. We sure don't see him carrying on about how the female users at gamefaqs love Leon and Steve. Meanwhile a lot of guys who play games can agree female characters like Jill, and Lara Croft are quite bad ass, and don't feel the need to talk down about a character who's most realistic feature is a voice-over actress.

I will now ask you for a quote as to where I said women cannot be main characters. As far as I know, I said Jill is not a main character in RE, and as far as I have seen, you have provided zero reasoning that proves anything close to the contrary, J. What do you hope to achieve by making such unfounded claims about me like that? Why can you not just read my posts, read what I'm saying without bearing a grudge and then reply civilly? I'm not trying to sound arrogant or confrontational but it honestly seems that as soon as someone comes along that debunks your words, you get antsy and defensive.

Lara Croft was not a great character, but I love the games. Why should I be obligated to say a female is "main" if she's not? Joanna Dark is a main character and a GOOD character, it should have nothing to do with whether one is male or female. Jill, in my opinion, has no depth, even more so as she's not part of the story really. Lara Croft was hailed as this feminist boost when all she amounted to was a female sprite doing things a male would have done. Ada is a great character, she is the one who, if you want to be specific, actually has the most feminine aura.

Anyway, Lara was the main character in those games and comparing her to Jill is ridiculous. Jill is not a main character in the grand scheme of things as it relates to Resident Evil's main story, at least not yet. If you are going to continue disagreeing with my points, then I will civilly ask you to come with proof, because right now I have all the proof and you have nothing more than "Well we like her, and she was in a game.".

You pass off Chris fighting Wesker and appearing many times as the reason, well...why wouldn't it be? It's not Jill because Capcom didn't want Jill, they wanted Chris, because he's a main character. There's a reason Jill hasn't been seen since 3, and I suspect the reason she's even IN Umbrella Chronicles is because of fan demand, but if Capcom make her a main character, I won't argue. Right now, she isn't one.

Originally posted by JToTheP
I just don't see how you and him could say 3 isn't of importance when the city was DESTROYED at the end, and Jill killed Nemesis.

Because it isn't, that's how. What did it add to the story? You tell me, and us, what it added to the saga, and what would be removed if 3 didn't exist or Jill wasn't in it.

The answer to both is; nothing. I have proven that with many scenarios and much reasoning, backed up by examples. You haven't given anything, so you can't expect anybody to side with you.

Resident Evil 3 was nothing more than the story of a survivor who wanted to escape Raccoon City and as an added "coolness", it was happening around the same time as 2, and had a really hyped villain. None of these add anything to the story. The game itself was called Resident Evil 3: Nemesis, it was just a means to fill the void while they prepared new games. Nothing happened in that game that added anything, do you not see that? Saying "WOW THE CITY GOT DESTROYED! JILL KILLED NEMESIS!", isn't backing. Being big events and big events inherent to a story are two different things.

Resident Evil 0 was inherent to a story. Stuff happened in that game that added to the saga, things we didn't know before that change the way we look at the actual goings on. 3 did nothing but say "Look, Jill, remember her? Yeah, she's stuck in the city and is trying to get out, all the while bad stuff happens.".

You like Jill, fine, but that doesn't make her a main character. I've put forward, many times, all the reasons and evidence for my claims, so now it's your turn to do the same, and if you won't then you should concede the argument.

-AC

Originally posted by DarkC
It's nothing to do the looks or her abilities, J; I personally know the Resident Evil plot somewhat well, having read the novels (despite the fact that they are non-canon essentially) and I agree with AC's assessment. Neither in-game nor in the novels does she hold or make any significant contribution towards the overall plot. While she's definitely a cool character and attractive, she's not a vital factor to the story.

I like Jill.

Way more interesting than Claire IMO.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
the games I am kinda familiar with. I have played a few, but do not know the story too well. The novels, however, I have read, and I do remember thinking "Hey, where the hell is Jill?"

You could say the same about the other characters Capcom refuses to reference any longer. The last reference about Billy is in RE2 for N64 in the EX file where it says something like he escaped and went into hiding. The non-canon novels (or so Capcom doesn't say they are at least)have Rebecca teaming up with other people to fight Umbrella. Carlos isn't heard from again, despite anyone thinking that 3 doesn't mean anything.

Like I tell my friends, I'd just like something, like the ending of 3, with the photograph stories, SOMETHING about the other characters.

would one classify Carlos as a main character?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
would one classify Carlos as a main character?

No, I suppose not since he was only in THREE afterall. I suppose Nicholai probably would just dismiss him as nothing when he sided with Jill, but again, that's 3.

Carlos? A main character? Why don't we just start saying Tofu is integral to the plot as well? Maybe the dying cop in the police station. How about anybody in any R.E, ever?

I love how my post was dodged because it contained facts, but let's try again.

Originally posted by JToTheP
You could say the same about the other characters Capcom refuses to reference any longer. The last reference about Billy is in RE2 for N64 in the EX file where it says something like he escaped and went into hiding. The non-canon novels (or so Capcom doesn't say they are at least)have Rebecca teaming up with other people to fight Umbrella. Carlos isn't heard from again, despite anyone thinking that 3 doesn't mean anything.

Like I tell my friends, I'd just like something, like the ending of 3, with the photograph stories, SOMETHING about the other characters.

They're non-canon novels for a reason. Has it actually come to a point of rabid denial where you're insinuating that Capcom might be wrong? Why are you being so blind to the FACT that 3 does not have any impact on the story, J? What are you seeing that everyone else isn't?

I love that game, I think it's excellent, but it's not adding anything to the story, and neither is Jill by being in it, or in one for that matter. So please, show me what is causing you to hold such beliefs.

Originally posted by JToTheP
No, I suppose not since he was only in THREE afterall. I suppose Nicholai probably would just dismiss him as nothing when he sided with Jill, but again, that's 3.

Yes, that is exactly right, but not "Because it's 3.", as if we all hate the game. Because 3 FACTUALLY does not add anything to the story. None of the characters in it added anything, they were just there.

So either provide evidence to the facts and evidence or please stop moaning that your argument is in ruins, it's rather ignorant. This all boils down to you having master's apprentice syndrome. You have a fascination with anyone who isn't a main character and because YOU'D like them to have huge parts, you are suggesting they do, somehow. Everything that has ever happened in the games so far contradicts you, but then...a real fan of the whole series would know that.

My best guess is that you've not clicked with the story.

Hey, remember when Jill actually had relatives in Resident Evil? Me neither. Chris does, maybe cos he's a main character.

-AC

Wow. He completely avoided responded to your post and you're still jumping down his throat. Whether he's wrong or not and agrees with you really doesn't matter. It seem's he's moved on from the discussion between the 2 of you and so should you.

Anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

If you have nothing to say regarding the games, then say nothing at all. He's not moved on from the discussion, he replies to anybody who isn't me because he knows he cannot counter my argument, so I'm civilly asking him to back himself up if he's going to continue at all.

Nothing wrong with it. I'm keeping this discussion as on topic as possible and your attempted-modding isn't helping. If you wish to discuss R.E, we're all here, if not, don't comment.

-AC

You're telling me to SAY NOTHING and I'm Modding? Hypocrite.

I'm trying to keep the piece b/c I see where this is going...where it always goes with you. You just seem very hostile. If he doesn't want to speak to you and wants to speak to others about it, he should have the right to without any nit picking from you.

Anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

You can just cut the love in this room with a knife. lovehug