Cloud vs Squall

Originally posted by MrSleepy
squall would win cuz look at what he has to go trew to to save time he has to fight ultimecia and she has like 2mill hp when you add all the 4 fights at the end together. then he was trained not just given geneticly enhanced a lil.
i can beat ff7 in like 3 days but ff8 is just so dam crazy it took me 5 days.
cloud is a lil emo just look at him the way he acts and looks.
squall is a loner cuz the closest thing to a sister and family he knew left him at a young age and never told him why that ****s people up most of the time. in a 1 on 1 fight squall wins

sry for puting gameplay stuff in here

Ok.
Cloud is MUCH stronger than Squall.
Stop bringing out the stupid numbers. Its just like how CoD boosted their points per kill- its just because more points=happier players

You guys say advent children is "unrealistic" thats 100% true, this is a FANTASY.
If you cant use advent children as an example then use CRISIS CORE: FFVII

If ANY of you have played that game, then you would understand why the power of SOLDIER is greater than SeeD.

Just because Cloud WAS an infantry man, doesnt mean he will suck for the rest of his life. He can improve just like anyone else.
I know Cloud never made SOLDIER and I know Sephiroth was just toying with Cloud, but it doesnt matter. Clouds body was changed so he would be just like someone in SOLDIER.

Cloud went through a TON more crap than Squall.
His Father dies
then his brothers
he does not achieve his dream of getting into SOLDIER
then his mother dies
Sephiroth slaughters everyone in his hometown, WHILE HE WAS THERE
tifa nearly dies
He gets captured and is tested on for 4 years
The tests almost completely erase his memory
His absolute best friend dies while trying to keep HIM alive (Cloud is the reason for Zacks death)
After he joins avalanche, everyone but Barret and Tifa die.
Aerith a girl he likes is killed (he almost did it himself)
Cloud becomes Sephiroths puppet
Then Cloud goes through a mental meltdown in which he goes through all the crap in his life ALL OVER AGAIN.
----------------------------
Look at the power of Soldier, then SeeD. SeeD is inferior in every way.

And Screw the "experience" argument. Just because Squall trained his whole life, doesnt make him the best. Examples of people who are weak no matter what:
Vegeta- no matter how hard he tries, he will never beat Goku.
Real life example?
- My friend who has been in martial arts since 4 has never beaten me in a fight.

So experience means nothing in here. All of clouds experience came from the tests.

@GrieverSquall- you're a loser
Its funny because you try to sound smart, but... You're not.
Your argument us TRASH.
I've read all 22 pages of this crappy debate, and it looks like you just can't accept the truth. I created an account just to show you up.
Lol, your spelling mistakes and improper verb tenses make you seem even more stupid.
You lose. 😉

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
Ok.
Cloud is MUCH stronger than Squall.
Stop bringing out the stupid numbers. Its just like how CoD boosted their points per kill- its just because more points=happier players

You guys say advent children is "unrealistic" thats 100% true, this is a FANTASY.
If you cant use advent children as an example then use CRISIS CORE: FFVII

If ANY of you have played that game, then you would understand why the power of SOLDIER is greater than SeeD.

Just because Cloud WAS an infantry man, doesnt mean he will suck for the rest of his life. He can improve just like anyone else.
I know Cloud never made SOLDIER and I know Sephiroth was just toying with Cloud, but it doesnt matter. Clouds body was changed so he would be just like someone in SOLDIER.

Cloud went through a TON more crap than Squall.
His Father dies
then his brothers
he does not achieve his dream of getting into SOLDIER
then his mother dies
Sephiroth slaughters everyone in his hometown, WHILE HE WAS THERE
tifa nearly dies
He gets captured and is tested on for 4 years
The tests almost completely erase his memory
His absolute best friend dies while trying to keep HIM alive (Cloud is the reason for Zacks death)
After he joins avalanche, everyone but Barret and Tifa die.
Aerith a girl he likes is killed (he almost did it himself)
Cloud becomes Sephiroths puppet
Then Cloud goes through a mental meltdown in which he goes through all the crap in his life ALL OVER AGAIN.
----------------------------
Look at the power of Soldier, then SeeD. SeeD is inferior in every way.

And Screw the "experience" argument. Just because Squall trained his whole life, doesnt make him the best. Examples of people who are weak no matter what:
Vegeta- no matter how hard he tries, he will never beat Goku.
Real life example?
- My friend who has been in martial arts since 4 has never beaten me in a fight.

So experience means nothing in here. All of clouds experience came from the tests.

@GrieverSquall- you're a loser
Its funny because you try to sound smart, but... You're not.
Your argument us TRASH.
I've read all 22 pages of this crappy debate, and it looks like you just can't accept the truth. I created an account just to show you up.
Lol, your spelling mistakes and improper verb tenses make you seem even more stupid.
You lose. 😉

You've obviously a Cloud fan, and it's nice to see you standing up for your favorite character. However...

Real life examples are an odd decision to put into what you yourself state is a fantasy setting. Just because your friend in martial arts can't beat you doesn't mean someone trained from teenage years to adulthood couldn't either.

The comments towards GrieverSquall are rude at least and flaming at best. While it is noticed, it is not encouraged, so I'm afraid I'll have to report it. Please be aware of how your words sound to others next time.

And if you continue with your insulting posts there FFVII Zach, it will result in a quick permanent ban. Feel free to debate, but do so respectfully. Because creating an account "just to show someone up" isn't a great start, to say the least.

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
Ok.
Cloud is MUCH stronger than Squall.
Stop bringing out the stupid numbers. Its just like how CoD boosted their points per kill- its just because more points=happier players

You guys say advent children is "unrealistic" thats 100% true, this is a FANTASY.
If you cant use advent children as an example then use CRISIS CORE: FFVII

If ANY of you have played that game, then you would understand why the power of SOLDIER is greater than SeeD.

Just because Cloud WAS an infantry man, doesnt mean he will suck for the rest of his life. He can improve just like anyone else.
I know Cloud never made SOLDIER and I know Sephiroth was just toying with Cloud, but it doesnt matter. Clouds body was changed so he would be just like someone in SOLDIER.

Cloud went through a TON more crap than Squall.
His Father dies
then his brothers
he does not achieve his dream of getting into SOLDIER
then his mother dies
Sephiroth slaughters everyone in his hometown, WHILE HE WAS THERE
tifa nearly dies
He gets captured and is tested on for 4 years
The tests almost completely erase his memory
His absolute best friend dies while trying to keep HIM alive (Cloud is the reason for Zacks death)
After he joins avalanche, everyone but Barret and Tifa die.
Aerith a girl he likes is killed (he almost did it himself)
Cloud becomes Sephiroths puppet
Then Cloud goes through a mental meltdown in which he goes through all the crap in his life ALL OVER AGAIN.
----------------------------
Look at the power of Soldier, then SeeD. SeeD is inferior in every way.

And Screw the "experience" argument. Just because Squall trained his whole life, doesnt make him the best. Examples of people who are weak no matter what:
Vegeta- no matter how hard he tries, he will never beat Goku.
Real life example?
- My friend who has been in martial arts since 4 has never beaten me in a fight.

So experience means nothing in here. All of clouds experience came from the tests.

@GrieverSquall- you're a loser
Its funny because you try to sound smart, but... You're not.
Your argument us TRASH.
I've read all 22 pages of this crappy debate, and it looks like you just can't accept the truth. I created an account just to show you up.
Lol, your spelling mistakes and improper verb tenses make you seem even more stupid.
You lose. 😉

I'm still waiting on an example from someone on what SOLDIER can do that SeeD can not.

Vegeta never even lost a fight to Goku in the first place 😐

Originally posted by Heythere,Honey
^^^ The post of the day.

That was some pretty great logic there, hate to argue with that guy.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
I'm still waiting on an example from someone on what SOLDIER can do that SeeD can not.

This is an SeeD.
YouTube video

This is SOLDIER.
YouTube video

So what can SOLDIER do that SeeD can't?
Hm...everything really.
SOLDIERS have supersonic reaction time and great agility. Not to mention superhuman strength ao a very nice degree seeing as they can use something the size of the Buster Swrod fast enough to deflect machinegun fire.

And this was a 2nd Class SOLDIER Zack.

SeeD are nothing more than kids playing at soldier. Hehe, more like kids playing at SOLDIER amirite.

Cloud kills Squall in about the time it takes Squall to blink.

Cloud has all the superior feats in every single area.

So assaulting a beach held by an army of gun wielding troops with no kiddy SeeD losses and fighting a time controlling sorceress who could react and cast spells before an un-noticed shot was able to hit her definately doesn't count as speed skills. Before Crisis Core/Advent Cloud had nothing but feats like that as well to prove his speed... aside from the sorceress.

I'm positive no one in SeeD is strong, they only manage to beat large durable and powerful enemies/GFs with relatively no strength and Zell manages to split the ground with relatively little strength as well or stop a train or punch open a metal door. Another example! Cloud's best strength feat from what I remember in FF7 before Advent was carrying the sword, which he even still managed to stab Sephiroth with before the enhancements. Depending on which of the 3+ flashbacks you watch on Sephiroth's defeat.

So you have a feat from Squall in FFVIII showing he has reaction times on par with Cloud?

Well if none of those count for anything, especially assaulting military encampmets/bases or taking on a sorceress with equal/possibly better reaction speed, considering she cast a spell to stop an unforeseen bullet. Nope.

I'm sure other than Advent there are none of Cloud as well? I don't think CGI animations are going to be the only proof in the speed cause before Crisis Core or Advent what did Cloud really have? And now apparently with no CGI proof Cloud is capable of speed blitzing everything in FF?

Well in crisis core, attacks like "Jump" show that its not just cgi where cloud or Zack can do these amazing things.

Cloud is almost like a copy of Zack, he may not be as good, but his abilities are similar to Zacks.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
Well if none of those count for anything, especially assaulting military encampmets/bases or taking on a sorceress with equal/possibly better reaction speed, considering she cast a spell to stop an unforeseen bullet. Nope.

I'm sure other than Advent there are none of Cloud as well? I don't think CGI animations are going to be the only proof in the speed cause before Crisis Core or Advent what did Cloud really have? And now apparently with no CGI proof Cloud is capable of speed blitzing everything in FF?

For tasks like that, A regular SOLDIER 2nd, or 3rd class is put in. Its that easy for them too. Go on youtube and watch someone play Crisis core. Then you will see the power of SOLDIER. No cutscenes are needed

Type in "Crisis Core: C03S04 Zack vs Robot" into youtube
Click on the first video. Then you will see.

No one in SeeD is able to do that.

Zack wasn't even trying.

He isn't even at his prime yet. His power continues to grow. It grows a lot more after he gets the Buster Sword too.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
You've obviously a Cloud fan, and it's nice to see you standing up for your favorite character. However...

Real life examples are an odd decision to put into what you yourself state is a fantasy setting. Just because your friend in martial arts can't beat you doesn't mean someone trained from teenage years to adulthood couldn't either.

The comments towards GrieverSquall are rude at least and flaming at best. While it is noticed, it is not encouraged, so I'm afraid I'll have to report it. Please be aware of how your words sound to others next time.

Sorry. If I could edit my post right now, I would.

Everyone slips up now and then, just don't let it become a trend or else you'll quickly find yourself no longer a member here. I'll likely be rejoining this particular debate soon, for Squall's side. He's my favorite. 😛

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
If ANY of you have played that game, then you would understand why the power of SOLDIER is greater than SeeD.

Although you base that off of nothing more than from Advent Children and the new CG technology Square-Enix has presented, not from the original game.

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
Just because Cloud WAS an infantry man, doesnt mean he will suck for the rest of his life. He can improve just like anyone else.
I know Cloud never made SOLDIER and I know Sephiroth was just toying with Cloud, but it doesnt matter. Clouds body was changed so he would be just like someone in SOLDIER.

This, however, becomes relevant in the moment we are comparing Cloud to a person who was already an Elite and a master of a weapon at the same age. Cloud was just some of those blue guys.

Elite > Infantry.

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
Cloud went through a TON more crap than Squall.
His Father dies
then his brothers
he does not achieve his dream of getting into SOLDIER
then his mother dies
Sephiroth slaughters everyone in his hometown, WHILE HE WAS THERE
tifa nearly dies
He gets captured and is tested on for 4 years
The tests almost completely erase his memory
His absolute best friend dies while trying to keep HIM alive (Cloud is the reason for Zacks death)
After he joins avalanche, everyone but Barret and Tifa die.
Aerith a girl he likes is killed (he almost did it himself)
Cloud becomes Sephiroths puppet
Then Cloud goes through a mental meltdown in which he goes through all the crap in his life ALL OVER AGAIN.

That has nothing to do about who would win and about actual skill in battle. Irrelevant.

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
Look at the power of Soldier, then SeeD. SeeD is inferior in every way.

And Screw the "experience" argument. Just because Squall trained his whole life, doesnt make him the best. Examples of people who are weak no matter what:
Vegeta- no matter how hard he tries, he will never beat Goku.
Real life example?
- My friend who has been in martial arts since 4 has never beaten me in a fight.

I want your evidence now.

Just because he trained all of his life doesn't make him the best? Does that makes him stronger, more experienced, powerful, mentally stronger than another person who hasn't proper training? Yes, it does. The rest of your paragraphs are already refuted by SpadeKing and Xanatosforever. Plus, your "arguments" are suspiciously very similar to Pyron Kinght's, so is more of the same.

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
So experience means nothing in here. All of clouds experience came from the tests.

It does means a lot, actually. Cloud just got some cells and Mako from it, nothing more. Let's thank Zack, without him Cloud would be a nobody.

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
@GrieverSquall- you're a loser
Its funny because you try to sound smart, but... You're not.
Your argument us TRASH.
I've read all 22 pages of this crappy debate, and it looks like you just can't accept the truth. I created an account just to show you up.
Lol, your spelling mistakes and improper verb tenses make you seem even more stupid.
You lose. wink

Ad Hominem. Fallacy.

If you have a problem with me, send me a personal message, as far as I know, I don't know you, or maybe I do? Thanks.

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
Well in crisis core, attacks like "Jump" show that its not just cgi where cloud or Zack can do these amazing things.

Cloud is almost like a copy of Zack, he may not be as good, but his abilities are similar to Zacks.

If you really wanted to add in the gameplay attacks, a SeeD could run around the Earth in 4 seconds just to WTFpunch you.

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
For tasks like that, A regular SOLDIER 2nd, or 3rd class is put in. Its that easy for them too. Go on youtube and watch someone play Crisis core. Then you will see the power of SOLDIER. No cutscenes are needed

That was just considered a field test for the "kids" in SeeD, so a test for 13-18 yr old kids is a mission for a SOLDIER? 😐

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Although you base that off of nothing more than from Advent Children and the new CG technology Square-Enix has presented, not from the original game.

This, however, becomes relevant in the moment we are comparing Cloud to a person who was already an Elite and a master of a weapon at the same age. Cloud was just some of those blue guys.

Elite > Infantry.

That has nothing to do about who would win and about actual skill in battle. Irrelevant.

I want your evidence now.

Just because he trained all of his life doesn't make him the best? Does that makes him stronger, more experienced, powerful, mentally stronger than another person who hasn't proper training? Yes, it does. The rest of your paragraphs are already refuted by SpadeKing and Xanatosforever. Plus, your "arguments" are suspiciously very similar to Pyron Kinght's, so is more of the same.

It does means a lot, actually. Cloud just got some cells and Mako from it, nothing more. Let's thank Zack, without him Cloud would be a nobody.

Ad Hominem. Fallacy.

If you have a problem with me, send me a personal message, as far as I know, I don't know you, or maybe I do? Thanks.

I can't really give you a proper reply from my phone, but I'll explain why I said some of those things

-
The reason why I talked about Cloud's life was because you kept on talking about how Squall went through "worst shit" than cloud

That was a few pages back.

I don't talk like anyone you have ever spoken to because I've never ever spoken to you before.
I don't know who pyromaniac or whatever is

I don't really know why I insulted you. Just some of the things you said were laughable (to me) I don't know why.
I'm sorry for that. Really I am.
BTW- I don't really like Cloud, I like Zack, he's the best 🙂

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
The reason why I talked about Cloud's life was because you kept on talking about how Squall went through "worst shit" than cloud

That was a few pages back.

Point me out where.

I remember saying Squall went through more shit than SEIFER, not Cloud. And even so, I wasn't talking about Squall's life, I was making references on the battles he had.

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
I don't really know why I insulted you. Just some of the things you said were laughable (to me) I don't know why.
I'm sorry for that. Really I am.
BTW- I don't really like Cloud, I like Zack, he's the best 🙂

Oh really...? Guess,what, I don't know either.
But whatever... Forget it.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
This is an SeeD.
YouTube video

This is SOLDIER.
YouTube video

So what can SOLDIER do that SeeD can't?
Hm...everything really.
SOLDIERS have supersonic reaction time and great agility. Not to mention superhuman strength ao a very nice degree seeing as they can use something the size of the Buster Swrod fast enough to deflect machinegun fire.

And this was a 2nd Class SOLDIER Zack.

SeeD are nothing more than kids playing at soldier. Hehe, more like kids playing at SOLDIER amirite.

Cloud kills Squall in about the time it takes Squall to blink.

Cloud has all the superior feats in every single area.

Most FF7 people at that point would just argue thats not true because SOLDIER>SEED. Like this guy for example...

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
Look at the power of Soldier, then SeeD. SeeD is inferior in every way.

It's perfectly feasible that Squall could have went in by himself and fought off an entire army. Again that is worthy of SOLDIER. Zack fought an army, Sephiroth probably could fight an army, Cloud could probably fight an army and its logical that Squall could as well, given the example above.

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
Cloud went through a TON more crap than Squall.
His Father dies
then his brothers
he does not achieve his dream of getting into SOLDIER
then his mother dies
Sephiroth slaughters everyone in his hometown, WHILE HE WAS THERE
tifa nearly dies
He gets captured and is tested on for 4 years
The tests almost completely erase his memory
His absolute best friend dies while trying to keep HIM alive (Cloud is the reason for Zacks death)
After he joins avalanche, everyone but Barret and Tifa die.
Aerith a girl he likes is killed (he almost did it himself)
Cloud becomes Sephiroths puppet
Then Cloud goes through a mental meltdown in which he goes through all the crap in his life ALL OVER AGAIN.

-Squall's father might as well be dead, he was never in his life (Even tho Laguna is his father ^^, never revealed in the game though)
-Squall's mother died before he can even remember
-The only person he has any emotional attachment to is ripped from him at a very young age. (Elone) (10 or so)
-Rinoa almost dies drifting in space
-Rinoa tells Squall to let her die (get executed) after finding out she is a sorceress. (He didnt take that well at all)
-Squall gets impaled directly in the chest, gets captured and then is tortured.

The list could go on but I'll end it there. Good day sir.

Well, Indrid beat me to the punch, but yeah, that SeeD that fell over some rocks? She's one of the candidates that fought off an entire invasion. Good job with the low showing, PK.