Cloud vs Squall

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Well, Indrid beat me to the punch, but yeah, that SeeD that fell over some rocks? She's one of the candidates that fought off an entire invasion. Good job with the low showing, PK.

Squall's still better. 313

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Squall's still better. 313

Originally posted by IndridCold
First and foremost yes SOLDIER do have great reaction time and great agility along with the superhuman aspects of them. But what makes them "superhuman" in their game (FF7), doesnt necessarily or wouldnt necessarily make them great in FF8. Characters in FF8 don't need "jevova cells" to operate at a superhuman level in their game at all. I would argue that Jenova cells for FF7 characters put them on par with those in FF8. Squall doesn't need jenova cells to fight a far worse tyrant than Sephiroth, that person being Ultimecia.

Most FF7 people at that point would just argue thats not true because SOLDIER>SEED. Like this guy for example...

Completly False. This person is OBVIOUSLY biased. I can give several examples of why SeeD's are just as powerful as SOLDIER but one sticks out more than any other. 8 SeeD initiates were sent to Dollet to quell an entire Galbadian invasion, by themselves. I think thats a task worthy of any SOLDIER. I think it should be kept in mind that they wern't even full fledged SeeD's at that point. Case in point it could be a strong indicator of how strong a full fledged SeeD can be, let alone Squall, the most powerful of them all.

It's perfectly feasible that Squall could have went in by himself and fought off an entire army. Again that is worthy of SOLDIER. Zack fought an army, Sephiroth probably could fight an army, Cloud could probably fight an army and its logical that Squall could as well, given the example above.

Some of your points are very argueable. Like being captured and tested on for 4 years. It's not like thats dragging Cloud down or anything, he can barely remember that. His memory was erased? I would think that would be more beneficial to his mental psyche and don't see how that would be deterimental to Cloud as a whole. After he joined avalanche and everyone died except him barret and tifa? I doubt he had any emotional attachment to those that died, it wasn't anyone significant to him. But anyways, you obviously arent educated on Squall very much.
Let me give you points to Squall that are relevant to what you put for Cloud above:

-Squall's father might as well be dead, he was never in his life (Even tho Laguna is his father ^^, never revealed in the game though)
-Squall's mother died before he can even remember
-The only person he has any emotional attachment to is ripped from him at a very young age. (Elone) (10 or so)
-Rinoa almost dies drifting in space
-Rinoa tells Squall to let her die (get executed) after finding out she is a sorceress. (He didnt take that well at all)
-Squall gets impaled directly in the chest, gets captured and then is tortured.

The list could go on but I'll end it there. Good day sir.

You've obviously never played Crisis Core or FFVII.

In Crisis Core, Zack and Angeal Took down Wutai completely. Zack did it mainly on his own. This was only a test for him to become a 1st class.

And that invasion you are talking about in FFVIII looks like it had a ton more people than just 8. There were way too many ships to just carry 8 SeeDs. And Squall and his friends were just infiltrating that place. It obviously wasn't easy if they sent "the masters" of the gun blade.

Looks like you're morw biased as I am

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
In Crisis Core, Zack and Angeal Took down Wutai completely. Zack did it mainly on his own. This was only a test for him to become a 1st class.

Let me guess something... Zack fought by himself all the whole game... 🤪

Originally posted by FFVII Zack Fair
And that invasion you are talking about in FFVIII looks like it had a ton more people than just 8. There were way too many ships to just carry 8 SeeDs. And Squall and his friends were just infiltrating that place. It obviously wasn't easy if they sent "the masters" of the gun blade.

There are only 7 ships, and only the SeeD candidates must fight and take out the Galbadian Army, the students. SeeDs like Quistis, Xu and others aren't allowed to fight. It's a test, just a military school test, take out a whole army, and they weren't even SeeDs at that point.

It seems you don't know anything about Squall.

G-Soldier Scan reveals they are strong, they uses Magic, but they are nowhere near as strong as any SeeD member.

I'm quite positive everyone who has played the FF series has played FFVII. Now I'm quite sure you haven't played FF8.

5 ships, at least 2 watching from afar to grade. There were only 8 participants in the attack. Then at graduation there were only 5 SeeD candidates there, Seifer was already told he failed and 2 others hid in a house when the machine was chasing Squall. The teachers definately didn't follow behind them to grade them.

No the mission was to stop the Galbadian invasion which was specifically stated in the game and infiltration would be attacking a base un-noticed, trust me they noticed them.

No Zack and Angeal did not take down Wutai completely. They merely finished the last battle of the war considering the hero of the war was Sephiroth and not Zack and Angeal they definately didn't take them down alone, all they did is scrape up the leftovers.

No they sent 2 students who needed to pass the exam to become SeeDs, it didn't matter if they knew how to use the gun blade and according to Laguna there were more than likely a lot of people who could use it though definately not many with Seifer's and Squall's skill with it.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
There are only 7 ships, and only the SeeD candidates must fight and take out the Galbadian Army, the students. SeeDs like Quistis, Xu and others aren't allowed to fight. It's a test, just a military school test, take out a whole army, and they weren't even SeeDs at that point.

I counted 5

I can't believe this is still going. I thought for sure this thing was dead. Someone has some powerful voodoo to reawaken these old bones...

Originally posted by SpadeKing
it didn't matter if they knew how to use the gun blade and according to Laguna there were more than likely a lot of people who could use it though definately not many with Seifer's and Squall's skill with it.

I counted 5

No, Squall is the only Gunblade specialist, thus he's a master of his own blade. Seifer has skill with it but not as much as Squall does.

According to Laguna there are a lot of people who uses the Gunblade? What are you talking about? When Laguna used a Gunblade was just for a film, when a Ruby Dragon appeared he fought him with his Machine Gun. He was a Galbadian Soldier skilled with Machine Guns. G-Soldiers does not use Gunblades.

YouTube video

0:12

I counted 7 ships.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Well, Indrid beat me to the punch, but yeah, that SeeD that fell over some rocks? She's one of the candidates that fought off an entire invasion. Good job with the low showing, PK.

That just shows the invasion was incompetent, stupid and worthless.

Also to the earlier poster, the only reason Squall is superhuman is because of the GFs. So...singling out Cloud is only usperhuman because of the Jenova Cells is pretty stupid.

I'll also say again. Cloud has superhuman reaction times in the supersonic range. He has durability in the skyscraper range if you notice how Sephiroth (who, at his weakest, could cut through the Junon Cannon like nothing) was slashing him and knocking him through buildings.

Tell me, when has Squall shown supersonic reaction times? When did she show he could be could withstand being knocked through steel by a Class 40+ character and still be able to fight?
That's right, never.

Cloud is superior in every area according to the facts.

SeeD are nothing more than children playing SOLDIER. And even a 2nd Class SOLDIER could solo most of the FFVIII party.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
That just shows the invasion was incompetent, stupid and worthless.

Prove it. 🙂

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Also to the earlier poster, the only reason Squall is superhuman is because of the GFs. So...singling out Cloud is only usperhuman because of the Jenova Cells is pretty stupid.

Cloud is super-human due of the Jenova Cells and Mako procedure.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
I'll also say again. Cloud has superhuman reaction times in the supersonic range. He has durability in the skyscraper range if you notice how Sephiroth (who, at his weakest, could cut through the Junon Cannon like nothing) was slashing him and knocking him through buildings.

Are you basing that off the original game? I don't recall any of that.

On top of that, Squall has more showings than Cloud precisely in their original games. If Cloud is so strong and can move at super-sonic speed, then why he dressed up as a woman to get pass through some weak security guards to save Tifa?

You can't show Cloud's dominance over all the rest of the Final Fantasy characters because they doesn't have a movie.
Is stated by the developers that they weren't worried about realism in the film. Now go and say Cloud can basically fly. Lmao.

By that logic many of the FF characters could react to bullets, since many of them fought and fight soldiers with, Rifles, Pistols, lasers, Machine Guns and futurictic vehicles of military combat all the time.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Tell me, when has Squall shown supersonic reaction times? When did she show he could be could withstand being knocked through steel by a Class 40+ character and still be able to fight?
That's right, never.

Read above.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
SeeD are nothing more than children playing SOLDIER. And even a 2nd Class SOLDIER could solo most of the FFVIII party.

Prove it. 🙂

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
No, Squall is the only Gunblade specialist, thus he's a master of his own blade. Seifer has skill with it but not as much as Squall does.

According to Laguna there are a lot of people who uses the Gunblade? What are you talking about? When Laguna used a Gunblade was just for a film, when a Ruby Dragon appeared he fought him with his Machine Gun. He was a Galbadian Soldier skilled with Machine Guns. G-Soldiers does not use Gunblades.

YouTube video

0:12

I counted 7 ships.

I mean Laguna said he had not used a gunblade since his military training, which I was guessing a lot of people have used it before.

Zack was making it sound like the fact they even had gunblades made them unstoppable. The fact that they could even fight well with it in their verse is apparently credit enough to their skills if they're no other gunblade fighters despite it being used in military training.

I didn't remember that part from the game where they showed all 7 ships. I only had the part where they were about to land memorized.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
That just shows the invasion was incompetent, stupid and worthless.

Also to the earlier poster, the only reason Squall is superhuman is because of the GFs. So...singling out Cloud is only usperhuman because of the Jenova Cells is pretty stupid.

I'll also say again. Cloud has superhuman reaction times in the supersonic range. He has durability in the skyscraper range if you notice how Sephiroth (who, at his weakest, could cut through the Junon Cannon like nothing) was slashing him and knocking him through buildings.

Tell me, when has Squall shown supersonic reaction times? When did she show he could be could withstand being knocked through steel by a Class 40+ character and still be able to fight?
That's right, never.

Cloud is superior in every area according to the facts.

SeeD are nothing more than children playing SOLDIER. And even a 2nd Class SOLDIER could solo most of the FFVIII party.

Once again with the same logic that would make Cloud capable of destroying anyone in FF, I'm quite positive you think he would speedblitz NeoExdeath, God Kefka, or Trance Kuja (etc...) into an oblivion alone as well right?

Ok so tell me this if we limited Cloud to nothing more than the original FF7 what has he done to prove any of those feats?

When has Cloud shown that he alone could fight someone good that would take him seriously?

Originally posted by SpadeKing
I mean Laguna said he had not used a gunblade since his military training, which I was guessing a lot of people have used it before.

Zack was making it sound like the fact they even had gunblades made them unstoppable. The fact that they could even fight well with it in their verse is apparently credit enough to their skills if they're no other gunblade fighters despite it being used in military training.

I don't remember him saying that. Even so, no one is a Gunblade specialist, but Squall. And the G-Soldiers do NOT use Gunblades. Balamb Garden does. Laguna used it in that film, but it was for a film.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I don't remember him saying that. Even so, no one is a Gunblade specialist, but Squall. And the G-Soldiers do NOT use Gunblades. Balamb Garden does. Laguna used it in that film, but it was for a film.

YouTube video

Couldn't find a shorter video but he refers to using it in training around 9:42-9:46.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
Couldn't find a shorter video but he refers to using it in training around 9:42-9:46.

SpadeKing, I'm sorry, but you are just incorrect. The one who is talking in those black line is SQUALL. He does not remember that type of Gunblade (That's the type of Gunblade Seifer uses) since training, HIS training in Balamb Garden.

Laguna does NOT used nor use Gunblades, once again, Galbadian Soldiers does NOT use Gunblades.

That is definitely not something Squall would say.

Besides in all of the flashbacks Squall's and everyone else's thoughts appears as Grey text to seperate it from Laguna's kiros' and ward's white text. I can pull up all the flashback videos for that as well. 😐

Originally posted by SpadeKing
That is definitely not something Squall would say.

Besides in all of the flashbacks Squall's and everyone else's thoughts appears as Grey text to seperate it from Laguna's kiros' and ward's white text. I can pull up all the flashback videos for that as well. no expression

Why not? Squall is known to have trained with Gunblades, he wouldn't remember well how to use a Gunblade similar to Seifer's, let's recall both are different type of Gunblades.

That's something Laguna wouldn't say. Unless Laguna is a SeeD cadet? Or was a student? He is a G-Soldier, Gardens didn't existed as far as I know. Galbadian soldiers does not use Gunblades, not even in the present of the game, not even the SeeDs from Galbadia.

True, they appear as grey text, I was wrong. Although my point still stands. What's your point, may I know?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Why not? Squall is known to have trained with Gunblades, he wouldn't remember well how to use a Gunblade similar to Seifer's, let's recall both are different type of Gunblades.

That's something Laguna wouldn't say. Unless Laguna is a SeeD cadet? Or was a student? He is a G-Soldier, Gardens didn't existed as far as I know. Galbadian soldiers does not use Gunblades, not even in the present of the game, not even the SeeDs from Galbadia.

True, they appear as grey text, I was wrong. Although my point still stands. What's your point, may I know?

Originally posted by SpadeKing
Zack was making it sound like the fact they even had gunblades made them unstoppable. The fact that they could even fight well with it in their verse is apparently credit enough to their skills if they're no other gunblade fighters despite it being used in military training

It was probably a part of training like how some police/military give training in weapons that aren't usually standard equipment for soldiers in certain jobs, just for them to get a feel.

Regardless the only two people known in that world capable of fighting well with it is Squall and Seifer.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
Zack was making it sound like the fact they even had gunblades made them unstoppable. The fact that they could even fight well with it in their verse is apparently credit enough to their skills if they're no other gunblade fighters despite it being used in military training.

It was probably a part of training like how some police/military give training in weapons that aren't usually standard equipment for soldiers in certain jobs, just for them to get a feel.

Regardless the only two people known in that world capable of fighting well with it is Squall and Seifer.

Oh.

But there's nothing to support that claim, not even a hint. However, we have Balamb Garden, which students apparently trains with Gunblades, yet none of them is a specialist, unlike Squall, or Seifer, who is also very skilled with it. The game never reveals the Gunblade's true origins. But Gunblades seems a rarity among warriors, Zell wanted to see Squall's Gunblade, so that speaks about that he never saw one before despite in being in the Garden.

Look at the Galbadian Soldiers in the D-District Prison, they are surprised by the Gunblade, one of them says: "Look at this... SeeD weapons..." Then the other says: "Is this what they call a Gunblade"?

So I disagree, not many people have trained nor trains with Gunblades.

Yeah, Squall is a master swordsman.

True confusing then as to how Laguna ever got to try out a gunblade at his academy. Probably did away with it in training if they ever did use it cause apparently no one else knows how to use it well.

I wouldn't exactly say that it speaks that he never saw one before, I would think Seifer probably eventually pulled out his gunblade on him in the hallways 😐

But the way Zell asked he probably hasn't seen one.

Though that reminds me I might go bring the Zell and Tifa fight back up.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
True confusing then as to how Laguna ever got to try out a gunblade at his academy. Probably did away with it in training if they ever did use it cause apparently no one else knows how to use it well.

I wouldn't exactly say that it speaks that he never saw one before, I would think Seifer probably eventually pulled out his gunblade on him in the hallways 😐

But the way Zell asked he probably hasn't seen one.

Though that reminds me I might go bring the Zell and Tifa fight back up.

Wait a second, Laguna never mentioned something about an academy, if we take that line as Laguna's, then he said from training, but I don't think from Galbadia military, since Galbadia does not use them. The Gunblade's origins are a complete mistery... That's why it sounds more as an Squall's line... 😬 It can be an inconsistency...

Besides, the Gunblade Laguna wields during that film is the same type of Gunblade Seifer uses, very similar to a pistol. I'd say Squall's model is unique.

What I meant is that Zell knew about Gunblades but he never saw one before, so that's why he have that expectant attitude towards Squall.