Cloud vs Squall

Started by GrieverSquall41 pages

Originally posted by TacDavey
1. He wasn't trying to pull himself up the blade and throw Sephiroth off a cliff.

2. Because he could.

1. He was trying to get off the stab with his strength.

2. Due to his hometown? PIS.

Originally posted by TacDavey
4.

5. We have NO IDEA when Squall showed up. You can't claim that we do.

You implied Cloud was weaker than the guard. Thus, the guard must be stronger than Sephiroth. PIS? What? I think the fact that Cloud kills three of them is enough evidence to logically say he is stronger than ONE of them. Not to mention the fact that they are weaker than even the lowest level Soldier, and Cloud is on level with Soldier first class.

The stupidity in the plot is the fact that he didn't kill the guard. The developers wanted to add more to the game than just bust in and destroy everything. They also wanted to throw in some humor and a little side quest to get in.

4.

What giant monsters...? She had notorious problems fighting some shadow monsters and she couldn't even hurt Bahamut-Sin. Lolwut?

5. Squall wasn't even there, he was in another room. The logical conclusion is he showed up in time, when the guard is about to fire his machine gun. 😐

Apparently you thought I implied that... a guy is stronger than Sephiroth... Oh, My, God. No, I didn't. That wasn't even a guard, it was a random guy, just like you. I don't really think Cloud KILLS them, but I do really think he could have tricked and passed through a 'normal guy' without dressing as a woman, if he didn't, then it's PIS, or, it is because he couldn't, which means he isn't so fast to do so, or he isn't so smart to do so, or he isn't brave enough. And don't make me laugh, he claims to be a SOLDIER 1st Class 'cause he has Zack's memories.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
1. He was trying to get off the stab with his strength.

2. Due to his hometown? PIS.

4.

5. Squall wasn't even there, he was in another room. The logical conclusion is he showed up in time, when the guard is about to fire his machine gun. 😐

Apparently you thought I implied that... a guy is stronger than Sephiroth... Oh, My, God. No, I didn't. That wasn't even a guard, it was a random guy, just like you. I don't really think Cloud KILLS them, but I do really think he could have tricked and passed through a 'normal guy' without dressing as a woman, if he didn't, then it's PIS, or, it is because he couldn't, which means he isn't so fast to do so, or he isn't so smart to do so, or he isn't brave enough. And don't make me laugh, he claims to be a SOLDIER 1st Class 'cause he has Zack's memories.

1. Not really. He wasn't doing much of anything. He was just kinda hanging there. He made no move of any kind one way or the other.

2. Because he always could, it just took his hometown for him to realize it.

4.

Originally posted by TacDavey
She's a part of the FF7 team, or did you forget? She was right next to Cloud through the game, which consisted of fighting several big scary monsters.

5. He showed up some time before we see him, yes we know that. How long before then we don't know.

Okay, then we are clear. Had Cloud wanted to use force to get past the guard he could have just as easily as Squall could have.

Cloud is at least as strong as Zack, and I would argue stronger. Thus, he's on par with Soldier First class.

Originally posted by TacDavey
1. Not really. He wasn't doing much of anything. He was just kinda hanging there. He made no move of any kind one way or the other.

2. Because he always could, it just took his hometown for him to realize it.

1. Yep, really... He certainly was trying to get off the attack, with no success.

2. Always? HMMM. Just because his hometown?! PIS.

Originally posted by TacDavey
4.

5. He showed up some time before we see him, yes we know that. How long before then we don't know.

Okay, then we are clear. Had Cloud wanted to use force to get past the guard he could have just as easily as Squall could have.

Cloud is at least as strong as Zack, and I would argue stronger. Thus, he's on par with Soldier First class.

4. Tac, why you keep putting the same? 🤨 I aready responded to this:

Originally posted by TacDavey
Tifa fights with the rest of the team through all the monsters you see in FF7. She kills big monsters with her bare hands.

Remember...? And then you replied with this one, which is the same, but with different words:

Originally posted by TacDavey
She's a part of the FF7 team, or did you forget? She was right next to Cloud through the game, which consisted of fighting several big scary monsters.

So respond to my point, or concede. You won't get another reply besides this one (which responds to both of your posts):

What giant monsters...? She had notorious problems fighting some shadow monsters and she couldn't even hurt Bahamut-Sin. Lolwut?
😛

Notice I didn't repeated myself, I'm just putting something you didn't respond yet. If not, look at older posts and see by yourself.

5. Considering he wasn't even there, yep, Squall must have showed up when the guard was ready to fire at Zell.

So you agree it was PIS? Then you agree on point 2 as well. If not, Cloud wouldn't have done it as Squall, Squall's by far faster. 🙂

I would argue he isn't on par with Genesis (who was in fact on par with Sephiroth) let alone Zack, who has beaten Genesis by himself. And a stronger and trained Sephiroth beat Zack, let alone Cloud who can't even beat an holding back Sephiroth. 🙂

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
1. Yep, really... He certainly was trying to get off the attack, with no success.

2. Always? HMMM. Just because his hometown?! PIS.

4. Tac, why you keep putting the same? 🤨 I aready responded to this:

Remember...? And then you replied with this one, which is the same, but with different words:

So respond to my point, or concede. You won't get another reply besides this one (which responds to both of your posts):

😛

Notice I didn't repeated myself, I'm just putting something you didn't respond yet. If not, look at older posts and see by yourself.

5. Considering he wasn't even there, yep, Squall must have showed up when the guard was ready to fire at Zell.

So you agree it was PIS? Then you agree on point 2 as well. If not, Cloud wouldn't have done it as Squall, Squall's by far faster. 🙂

I would argue he isn't on par with Genesis (who was in fact on par with Sephiroth) let alone Zack, who has beaten Genesis by himself. And a stronger and trained Sephiroth beat Zack, let alone Cloud who can't even beat an holding back Sephiroth. 🙂

1. No he wasn't. He was just hanging there. He wasn't flailing his legs, or anything.

2. His home town allowed him to realize his full potential, or whatever. It's pretty simple really. If the developers had wanted Cloud to not be able to do that, they wouldn't have had him do it. They had him do it, thus they obviously wanted Cloud to be able to do it.

4. No, my point responds to that. Tifa goes with Cloud in FF7. The team fights big monsters in FF7. Thus, Tifa has fought big monsters in FF7. If they had her have trouble in AC it was either because the monsters where stronger than the others (which I doubt), she had lost some of her abilities, or, in the change from game to movie, there are inconsistencies that the developers disregarded. My bet is on the last one.

5. Or before hand, and didn't jump until he noticed Zell was in trouble. You can't make the claim you know when Squall showed up or started that jump, because you don't. End of story. He comes in off screen from an unspecified location. You have no idea how long he had been there or when he started the jump. All you see is the end of the jump. That's it. You cannot make claims like that with no evidence.

It was the developers having some fun and making the game more interesting. Not the same as point 2.

Why would you argue he isn't on par with Genesis?

Reading this thread really makes you wonder why humanity is allowed to exist.

Cloud kills Squall before Squall blinks. End of.

Also Zack, Genesis and Sephiroth could all beat Squall before he blinked as well.

Any proof to back any of those up?

So far all the proof for Cloud has been, disregard FF7 and use spin-offs because his FF7 spin-offs apparently make Cloud 5000x better cause he didn't do none of that stuff in the original FF7 which means unless no other FF gets spinoff movies or games that allow them to move faster then they automatically suck compared to everything in FF7.

With this logic, Cloud pretty much solos every thing in the FF verse that isn't in FF7.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
Any proof to back any of those up?

So far all the proof for Cloud has been, disregard FF7 and use spin-offs because his FF7 spin-offs apparently make Cloud 5000x better cause he didn't do none of that stuff in the original FF7 which means unless no other FF gets spinoff movies or games that allow them to move faster then they automatically suck compared to everything in FF7.

With this logic, Cloud pretty much solos every thing in the FF verse that isn't in FF7.

I'm pretty much the only one here arguing for Cloud, and I haven't used AC at all.

Squall kills Cloud and then has sex with Tifa but then Rinoa finds out and kills Squall in his sleep and Rinoa goes after Tifa and Tifa ruthlessly beats the s*** out of Rinoa and rapes her before snapping her neck in two. Then Mario jumps out and shows Tifa was a mushroom can really do. But Peach finds out but who cares; she was already kidnapped by Bowser and taken away while Mario humped Tifa.

Originally posted by TacDavey
I'm pretty much the only one here arguing for Cloud, and I haven't used AC at all.

Then I want to know where the idea of Cloud being stronger and faster comes from, unless you used the other games.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Squall kills Cloud and then has sex with Tifa but then Rinoa finds out and kills Squall in his sleep and Rinoa goes after Tifa and Tifa ruthlessly beats the s*** out of Rinoa and rapes her before snapping her neck in two. Then Mario jumps out and shows Tifa was a mushroom can really do. But Peach finds out but who cares; she was already kidnapped by Bowser and taken away while Mario humped Tifa.

Never though about it that way 😐

Originally posted by SpadeKing
Then I want to know where the idea of Cloud being stronger and faster comes from, unless you used the other games.

Cloud being stronger comes from what he uses as a weapon coupled with how he wields it. I asked for some sign that Squall possessed above average strength as well, but as of yet, no one has offered any.

I'm not sure I ever said Cloud was faster. But he certainly isn't slow.

A sword that is more than likely 16-17 lbs.? One that no one has stated as heavy, except the fans who think it is 100+ or made of some super dense metal? It is just impressive with his swordsmanship with the sword for its size and design, not strength.

Originally posted by TacDavey
1. No he wasn't. He was just hanging there. He wasn't flailing his legs, or anything.

2. His home town allowed him to realize his full potential, or whatever. It's pretty simple really. If the developers had wanted Cloud to not be able to do that, they wouldn't have had him do it. They had him do it, thus they obviously wanted Cloud to be able to do it.

He wasn't just grabbing the Masamune to get off the stab, he was also trying to retaliate while Sephiroth was lifting him. Yes, also shaking his legs. And that's still ignoring the fact that Cloud didn't do anything at all, simply because he couldn't, rather than 'he hasn't tried'.

So Cloud couldn't pass through a guy, he didn't, thus he can't... No, wait, that's PIS, just like his hometown 'miraculously' allowing him to retaliate and Sephiroth not killing him when he easily could. Never mind the fact that he could have put his hand off the sword when was being lifted and Cloud would have fallen inside the Reactor... 😬

Originally posted by TacDavey
4. No, my point responds to that. Tifa goes with Cloud in FF7. The team fights big monsters in FF7. Thus, Tifa has fought big monsters in FF7. If they had her have trouble in AC it was either because the monsters where stronger than the others (which I doubt), she had lost some of her abilities, or, in the change from game to movie, there are inconsistencies that the developers disregarded. My bet is on the last one.

5. Or before hand, and didn't jump until he noticed Zell was in trouble. You can't make the claim you know when Squall showed up or started that jump, because you don't. End of story. He comes in off screen from an unspecified location. You have no idea how long he had been there or when he started the jump. All you see is the end of the jump. That's it. You cannot make claims like that with no evidence.

It was the developers having some fun and making the game more interesting. Not the same as point 2.

Why would you argue he isn't on par with Genesis?

A group of 9 people with Materia, Summons and weaponry does that... and it depends on HOW they fought each of those monsters. I don't recall Tifa punching giant monsters to death, do you? Nor demolishing them to the ground with her fists. She may hurt some monsters wolves, or some smaller ones, but that's it. As far as FFVII is concerned, Tifa has zero feats (If you disregard AC which is actually the only thing we know about her after all). Your point?

Huh? Sir, Stop weird stuff. Squall wasn't there yet when Zell was escaping from the G-Soldiers and guards, he was in another room with Quistis and Selphie. The logical conclusion is that he showed up in time, 1 second later and Zell would have been shot. It's a logical reasoning. Deal with it.

I loled. It's PIS, plot hole, or plot point, call it whatever you like, it's just as ridiculous as point 2 and it applies to both. Just by a 'funny' scene they ignored logic and everything else and made Cloud dress as a woman when he could have punched a guy in the face. Just as Tifa and Scarlet scene, Tifa could have punched Scarlet in the face, RIGHT? But she didn't. Yeah, Squall would have passed through that shitty hotel in seconds, much faster than Cloud could even imagine. Cloud isn't as fast as Squall. And stop talking about every developer from every game as you would know everything from them.

Because Genesis was on par with Pre-Nibelheim Sephiroth. Is stated. Cloud can't even beat an holding back Seph. And using Zack to justify Cloud 'cause he has no feats in his game is really pathetic, if I recall correctly Zack outside Crisis Core has zero feats as well.

hmmm if Squall can pack hundreds of black holes in his pocket...what can Cloud do?

I wasn't a joke.

Squall can contain, in multiples of a hundred each, black holes, three stars, cottages, windmills, dark matter, and other crazy shit.

This makes him massively FTL, high class 100, and more durable than a planet.

NemeBro said this in another thread

Originally posted by SpadeKing
A sword that is more than likely 16-17 lbs.? One that no one has stated as heavy, except the fans who think it is 100+ or made of some super dense metal? It is just impressive with his swordsmanship with the sword for its size and design, not strength.

It's made of metal and about the size of a man. You go try swinging that thing around with one hand. The "light metal" theory only holds up if there is something in game that suggests it. There isn't, however.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
He wasn't just grabbing the Masamune to get off the stab, he was also trying to retaliate while Sephiroth was lifting him. Yes, also shaking his legs. And that's still ignoring the fact that Cloud didn't do anything at all, simply because he couldn't, rather than 'he hasn't tried'.

So Cloud couldn't pass through a guy, he didn't, thus he can't... No, wait, that's PIS, just like his hometown 'miraculously' allowing him to retaliate and Sephiroth not killing him when he easily could. Never mind the fact that he could have put his hand off the sword when was being lifted and Cloud would have fallen inside the Reactor... 😬

A group of 9 people with Materia, Summons and weaponry does that... and it depends on HOW they fought each of those monsters. I don't recall Tifa punching giant monsters to death, do you? Nor demolishing them to the ground with her fists. She may hurt some monsters wolves, or some smaller ones, but that's it. As far as FFVII is concerned, Tifa has zero feats (If you disregard AC which is actually the only thing we know about her after all). Your point?

Huh? Sir, Stop weird stuff. Squall wasn't there yet when Zell was escaping from the G-Soldiers and guards, he was in another room with Quistis and Selphie. The logical conclusion is that he showed up in time, 1 second later and Zell would have been shot. It's a logical reasoning. Deal with it.

I loled. It's PIS, plot hole, or plot point, call it whatever you like, it's just as ridiculous as point 2 and it applies to both. Just by a 'funny' scene they ignored logic and everything else and made Cloud dress as a woman when he could have punched a guy in the face. Just as Tifa and Scarlet scene, Tifa could have punched Scarlet in the face, RIGHT? But she didn't. Yeah, Squall would have passed through that shitty hotel in seconds, much faster than Cloud could even imagine. Cloud isn't as fast as Squall. And stop talking about every developer from every game as you would know everything from them.

Because Genesis was on par with Pre-Nibelheim Sephiroth. Is stated. Cloud can't even beat an holding back Seph. And using Zack to justify Cloud 'cause he has no feats in his game is really pathetic, if I recall correctly Zack outside Crisis Core has zero feats as well.

1. No, he didn't try. He didn't try anything. Look at the video. He isn't even squirming. Besides, as I said before, he couldn't pull what he did back in the reactor because Sephiroth wouldn't let him. Not because he isn't able to.

2. No, Cloud COULD pass through him, but didn't, because it was a comedic scene.

3. And you can't say she DOESN'T take them out with her fists. That's the thing, we have no idea how the characters fight in the game because WE determine how they fight. All we know, is that Tifa fights with her fists, isn't super human, and kills big monsters. That's all we know.

4. He started in another room, and quickly started making his way back to Zell. We don't know when he got there.

5. How do you know Squall is faster than Cloud? You can't say that jump scene proves this, as we are still in the process of discussing it, and it has not proven anything yet. Also, I know good development when I see it. Having someone get out of a situation the same way twice is not good development.

6. Was he? Are you sure? Because Sephiroth smoked Zack with hardly lifting a finger. Zack beat Genesis, not only in his normal form, but his crazy monster form as well. Thus, logically, Sephiroth is far above Genesis.

Originally posted by XMr. WinterX
I wasn't a joke.

Squall can contain, in multiples of a hundred each, black holes, three stars, cottages, windmills, dark matter, and other crazy shit.

This makes him massively FTL, high class 100, and more durable than a planet.

NemeBro said this in another thread

No, I'm going to pass it off as a joke for your sake. Everyone knows that's a game mechanic and that Squall isn't really stuffing black holes or buildings in his pants.

Originally posted by TacDavey
1. No, he didn't try. He didn't try anything. Look at the video. He isn't even squirming. Besides, as I said before, he couldn't pull what he did back in the reactor because Sephiroth wouldn't let him. Not because he isn't able to.

2. No, Cloud COULD pass through him, but didn't, because it was a comedic scene.

3. And you can't say she DOESN'T take them out with her fists. That's the thing, we have no idea how the characters fight in the game because WE determine how they fight. All we know, is that Tifa fights with her fists, isn't super human, and kills big monsters. That's all we know.

I own the movie, but if you want to put the vid, do it. He's grabbing the Masamune and shaking his legs... Those are signs of him trying something, not waiting for Sephiroth to kill him. Unless you think Cloud is retard.

Plot point = PIS. Cloud, you and I could have break through that guy, not as fast as Squall would though.

Actually, I didn't said anything about her at all, you brought her up. I just say a group of 9 people with Materia, Summons and weaponry blow down giant monsters. But we can't determine anything from Tifa in the game... since she has zero feats.

Originally posted by TacDavey
4. He started in another room, and quickly started making his way back to Zell. We don't know when he got there.

5. How do you know Squall is faster than Cloud? You can't say that jump scene proves this, as we are still in the process of discussing it, and it has not proven anything yet. Also, I know good development when I see it. Having someone get out of a situation the same way twice is not good development.

6. Was he? Are you sure? Because Sephiroth smoked Zack with hardly lifting a finger. Zack beat Genesis, not only in his normal form, but his crazy monster form as well. Thus, logically, Sephiroth is far above Genesis.

That room is in another floor. Zell's floor was full of G-Soldiers and prison guards, Squall had to beat some asses before saving Zell (since he had to go to Zell's floor). Super-speed indeed, considering he went all by himself and without breaking a sweat. Deal with it.

It does proves everything I need, you're just in denial, or, unless you show me Cloud being as fast as Squall. Oh, then that proves Cloud scene in the Reactor was nothing more than PIS. 🙂

... Is stated. Sephiroth smoked Zack with hardly lifting a finger? That's Cloud, not Zack. I said Genesis was on par with Pre-Nibelheim Sephiroth. Do you have problems reading my posts...? 🤨

Originally posted by TacDavey
It's made of metal and about the size of a man. You go try swinging that thing around with one hand. The "light metal" theory only holds up if there is something in game that suggests it. There isn't, however.

As I said before no one has said it is heavy, it just looks heavy, there is an actual recreation of the sword made of steel and it only weighs 16 lbs.

The "heavy sword" theory would hold up if a grunt wasn't capable of jumping and slashing with it or if anyone said it was heavy.

My proof: A weak grunt was capable of wielding the sword with no problems including jumping with it and an actual rendition of the sword made as accurate as possible was made, weighing in at 16 lbs and the AC version weighing in at 17lbs also complete with the split swords (I'm buying it)

Your proof: It looks heavy and it is made of metal that can't possibly be light.

Buster Sword would definitely be heavy by sword standards. But seeing as swords weigh like 2-3 lbs on average even across a wide range of types, the buster sword being at most 20 lbs isn't surprising.

Unless it's stated that its made of some super dense metal, we shouldn't assume it weighs an extraordinary amount.

****

lol was hoping this thread would stop at 777 for FF humor. 😆

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I would argue he isn't on par with Genesis (who was in fact on par with Sephiroth)

Genesis isn't on par with Pre-Nib Sephiroth.

If you need proof:

A. Supernova.
B. Sephiroth is the perfect melding of Jenova and Human. (Genesis degrades, Sephiroth doesn't).

I am not sure what you are referring to in your other posts about it beings stated, would you care to elaborate?

Back on topic: Cloud wins due to retardation.