Cloud vs Squall

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Or just 1 second, considering the guy was about to fire his machine gun and Squall's intent was to save Zell's head. So yep, it was pretty fast. Pause the scene, he's already from above te prison's center, there's no escape. 🙂 And like Indridcold said, for that jump you need incredibly amount of physiscal strength, and from what I see Squall didn't break a sweat to do so. 😄 Without mentioning that the blue aura is even faster than Squall's slash, which could mean is petty damn fast.

Oh and what Tifa does in FFVII? 😕

Anyways just to piggyback on what your saying Squall nuts are clearly above the gaurds head and he's on the decline lol He obviously jumped from a long way away and frankly if Tac wants to assume "it's not THAT far away" he's in denial.

Oh and btw....Goku>Gohan (except maybe for the cell games) lol 😛

Originally posted by IndridCold
Sorry for double posting so much guys, trying to get back into the swing of things.

Anyways just to piggyback on what your saying Squall nuts are clearly above the gaurds head and he's on the decline lol He obviously jumped from a long way away and frankly if Tac wants to assume "it's not THAT far away" he's in denial.

Oh and btw....Goku>Gohan (except maybe for the cell games) lol 😛

Agreed. 🙂

EDIT: Oh! And reading through your post, Indrid, let's remember SeeDs are the ONLY ones capable in defeating Sorceresses in the world, Squall's by far da best SeeD ever, that automatically makes him the strongest warrior in the world.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Agreed. 🙂

EDIT: Oh! And reading through your post, Indrid, let's remember SeeDs are the ONLY ones capable in defeating Sorceresses in the world, Squall's by far da best SeeD ever, that automatically makes him the strongest warrior in the world.

Going off that it WOULDN"T MATTER how strong anyone else was because 'SeeD>everyone else.' After all, and like you said, SeeD's are the only ones powerful enough to take down Ultemecia. That kind of takes "everyone else" other than Squall's fellow SeeD's out of the equation.

And there's really no arguing that he was the most powerful SeeD. Ultemecia practically hand picks him as the one she was waiting for, the one destined to face her. Squall Succeeded where other SeeD's failed and died. Not just SeeD's in his own world but others as well, practically SeeD's from other freakin dimensions. He's not just the strongest in the world. He's practically the strongest in the entire universe. Cloud eat your heart out right? That feat alone completely annihilates any feat Cloud has ever done in my book hands down. Cloud CANNOT touch that.

Not to mention that, if GF's do give Squall superhuman ability, Cloud would have absolutely NO leg to stand on given the fact that most would agree Squall has arguably better technique with his weapon.
Super human abilities+better technique>a Super human.
Now I'm not saying Cloud can't use his weapon. I'm sure he can. I'm just saying Squall can do it better given his more extensive training with it.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Okay, but Sephiroth didn't retaliated in AC, Cloud had time to do so... Cloud was much stronger, and he couldn't, that means, he can't toss any men, he could toss a dying Sephiroth, and for PIS 😐

That's called PIS, then. Yep, a VERY weak character, suddenly, because he gets just angered, he becomes the most powerful in the universe, ask Gohan, lol. As for Cloud, he was a ShinRa infantryman, thus a 'blue guy'. Although Gohan gets awesome, Cloud doesn't, as I already pointed out, he was lucky.

Then it's a ret-con, dunno. I said I'm not getting into Last Order, just wanted to point that out, which apparently it isn't unimportant.

Well, even if you deny it, still sounds a bit contradictory, but whatever. Cloud is enhanced with Jenova Cells, thus super-human, Squall on the other hand, has his own GF enhancements, thus super-human. Now, we don't really HAVE to see something on screen, you don't need to see something to know something. As I said, you don't need any enhancements to lift a big sword, at all.

Special attacks usually are more powerful than just normal slashes, Cloud's skills are also stronger than one of his normal slashes, it's logic. They are quick slashes because Squall IS quick. Squall demolishes giant monsters with it, you need strength to do so.

Yeah, but like you said we can take some things from them. 🙂

Or just 1 second, considering the guy was about to fire his machine gun and Squall's intent was to save Zell's head. So yep, it was pretty fast. Pause the scene, he's already from above te prison's center, there's no escape. 🙂 And like Indridcold said, for that jump you need incredibly amount of physiscal strength, and from what I see Squall didn't break a sweat to do so. 😄 Without mentioning that the blue aura is even faster than Squall's slash, which could mean is petty damn fast.

Oh and what Tifa does in FFVII? 😕

1. Sephiroth didn't retaliate because Cloud didn't try to do it. If he had, he would have. Cloud isn't an idiot. He knows Sephiroth isn't going to sit back and watch him lift him up and toss him.

2. Yeah, but he was obviously better than an average blue man, since blue men can't do what he did. It took a traumatic experience for Cloud to perform what he was fully capable of performing. Again, not uncommon.

3. It's a spin off screwing things up.

4. No, it sure doesn't. Did you miss the whole paragraph about how it's NOT contradictory or what?

5. You need strength to swing a sword, sure. You don't need SUPER strength AT ALL. I'm sorry, the fact that Squall swings a sword doesn't make him super strong. No matter how to try to justify it, it just doesn't work that way. You need to be strong to swing a sword, sure. Not super strong.

6. Yeah, and "Squall has super strength" is not something we can take from Renzokuken.

7. Why does the fact that Squall is saving Zell suddenly mean that his jump must have been fast? That makes no sense. Squall could have seen Zell was in trouble right after the dude knocked him in the head, or whatever he did. There was plenty of time between then and Squall's entrance to start a perfectly normal speed jump.

8. Tifa fights off giant monsters too. With her FISTS. Squall has a SWORD. So if Tifa doesn't need to be super human to kill stuff with her FISTS, Squall CERTAINLY doesn't need to be when using a SWORD.

Originally posted by IndridCold
That 'WAS' a pretty big jump...

Anyways If all the other characters in the FF world are doing things I'm seeing Cloud do, it really brings into question what a damn superhuman in a damn final fantasy game is. If I see Tifa and Squall doing "superhuman stunts" that are all so "common" as you put it, in the final fantasy world what does that make Cloud? a Supersuperhuman?? Obviously those non-superhumans (Tifa, Barret, Cait Sith etc.) were around at the end of Final fantasy 7 fighting Sephiroth just as much as Cloud was. ITS COMPLETLY FEASIBLE TO ASSUME CLOUD IS NOT UNTOUCHABLE BY A NON-SUPERHUMAN. Especially when it comes to Squall...In fact, we had a perfectly good arguement against jonova cells..... and it was GF's... but it's as if you just waived that arguement off because you don't know the mechanics behind it. And I must admit neither do I, but what I do know is that SeeD's simply put, beat ass when they have them. Without GF's "common people" don't beat ass in FF8. It's pretty logical there are probably some superhuman capabilty behind GF's yes??

In fact I challenge you. That jump Squall did in the youtube video is probably more impressive than anything I saw Cloud do in FF7, outside of the combat system. If you can prove me wrong, please, go ahead and make me eat my words.

Yes, actually. That makes Cloud a super human from a world where humans already have the potential to be pretty super. So... I guess you could call it a super super human.

GFs give the users something. It isn't really clear what they do for them, but I don't see any reason to think they gave Squall super strength.

Cloud doesn't do anything outside of battle, and if he does I can't remember and am certainly not going through the whole game again looking for it.

Originally posted by TacDavey
1. Sephiroth didn't retaliate because Cloud didn't try to do it. If he had, he would have. Cloud isn't an idiot. He knows Sephiroth isn't going to sit back and watch him lift him up and toss him.

2. Yeah, but he was obviously better than an average blue man, since blue men can't do what he did. It took a traumatic experience for Cloud to perform what he was fully capable of performing. Again, not uncommon.

3. It's a spin off screwing things up.

4. No, it sure doesn't. Did you miss the whole paragraph about how it's NOT contradictory or what?

Lmao, that makes a lot of sense. He had, he was impaled, he could, he didn't, guess what, he can't. He can't throw any men. He just can't.

What's an 'average blue man'? Elaborate. Guess what, there were like... hundred better than Cloud, you know, the ones that did something Cloud didn't, the ones that perfomed in fighting skill, ability, etc, etc, unlike Cloud who underperformed in everything. Well, it's ''common'' in a fantasy world (I will use your argument from now on). And PIS. 🙂

Maybe, maybe not.

No I didn't miss it. 😐
It's not like you can state what is acceptable or not, I can do it by myself, lol.

Originally posted by TacDavey
5. You need strength to swing a sword, sure. You don't need SUPER strength AT ALL. I'm sorry, the fact that Squall swings a sword doesn't make him super strong. No matter how to try to justify it, it just doesn't work that way. You need to be strong to swing a sword, sure. Not super strong.

6. Yeah, and "Squall has super strength" is not something we can take from Renzokuken.

7. Why does the fact that Squall is saving Zell suddenly mean that his jump must have been fast? That makes no sense. Squall could have seen Zell was in trouble right after the dude knocked him in the head, or whatever he did. There was plenty of time between then and Squall's entrance to start a perfectly normal speed jump.

8. Tifa fights off giant monsters too. With her FISTS. Squall has a SWORD. So if Tifa doesn't need to be super human to kill stuff with her FISTS, Squall CERTAINLY doesn't need to be when using a SWORD.

And Cloud swinging his either, as such, you don't need Jenova Cells to do so. Never mind the fact I didn't said Squall swinging a sword makes him super-human, GF does. You are indeed misquoting everything. When did I said Renzokuken makes Squall strong? Squall IS strong, Renzokuken makes him stronger.

Simple, when someone is usually... In danger, you would act quick.
I think the guy shoots Zell, it sounds more like a shot. I lol'd at the 'nomal speed' rant, though.

WHEN did I said Tifa WAS super-human? No, no... do not misquote things, stop, seriously. STOP. You said look at what Tifa does, I have answered... in game I don't see anything, or you was refering to AC? If that's so, Tifa had problems fighting some shadow monsters, I don't think she can demolish giant creatures without the help of Cloud and Barret, or, her entire team. Bahamut-Sin says hi 🙂

And... Just in a side note, the only Tifa-feat I saw in FFVII was her and Scarlet playing some bitching-slap game. 😆

Originally posted by IndridCold
Makes sense to me. And it is also a good against Tac's argument that he loves to use. The one where he says because Squall is really strong doesn't mean there isn't someone out there that is stronger. I'm sure you know the one I'm talking about lol

Going off that it WOULDN"T MATTER how strong anyone else was because 'SeeD>everyone else.' After all, and like you said, SeeD's are the only ones powerful enough to take down Ultemecia. That kind of takes "everyone else" other than Squall's fellow SeeD's out of the equation.

And there's really no arguing that he was the most powerful SeeD. Ultemecia practically hand picks him as the one she was waiting for, the one destined to face her. Squall Succeeded where other SeeD's failed and died. Not just SeeD's in his own world but others as well, practically SeeD's from other freakin dimensions. He's not just the strongest in the world. He's practically the strongest in the entire universe. Cloud eat your heart out right? That feat alone completely annihilates any feat Cloud has ever done in my book hands down. Cloud CANNOT touch that.

Not to mention that, if GF's do give Squall superhuman ability, Cloud would have absolutely NO leg to stand on given the fact that most would agree Squall has arguably better technique with his weapon.
Super human abilities+better technique>a Super human.
Now I'm not saying Cloud can't use his weapon. I'm sure he can. I'm just saying Squall can do it better given his more extensive training with it.

Oh I missed your post, Indrid, yep indeed, I agree with this.

To be honest Cloud hasn't shown NOTHING in FFVII, on the other hand Squall did, with poor graphics and limitations, but he did. If he have to argue only on feats seen on screen then Squall wins, hands down. If Cloud performs the way he perfoms in AC, imagine Squall. And... yeah, GFs grants you with super-human abilities.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Lmao, that makes a lot of sense. He had, he was impaled, he could, he didn't, guess what, he can't. He can't throw any men. He just can't.

What's an 'average blue man'? Elaborate. Guess what, there were like... hundred better than Cloud, you know, the ones that did something Cloud didn't, the ones that perfomed in fighting skill, ability, etc, etc, unlike Cloud who underperformed in everything. Well, it's ''common'' in a fantasy world (I will use your argument from now on). And PIS. 🙂

Maybe, maybe not.

No I didn't miss it. 😐
It's not like you can state what is acceptable or not, I can do it by myself, lol.

And Cloud swinging his either, as such, you don't need Jenova Cells to do so. Never mind the fact I didn't said Squall swinging a sword makes him super-human, GF does. You are indeed misquoting everything. When did I said Renzokuken makes Squall strong? Squall IS strong, Renzokuken makes him stronger.

Simple, when someone is usually... In danger, you would act quick.
I think the guy shoots Zell, it sounds more like a shot. I lol'd at the 'nomal speed' rant, though.

WHEN did I said Tifa WAS super-human? No, no... do not misquote things, stop, seriously. STOP. You said look at what Tifa does, I have answered... in game I don't see anything, or you was refering to AC? If that's so, Tifa had problems fighting some shadow monsters, I don't think she can demolish giant creatures without the help of Cloud and Barret, or, her entire team. Bahamut-Sin says hi 🙂

And... Just in a side note, the only Tifa-feat I saw in FFVII was her and Scarlet playing some bitching-slap game. 😆

1. Actually, it DOES make sense. He was able to do it the first time because Sephiroth COULDN'T retaliate. He was too weak. The second time Sephiroth was perfectly fine. So Cloud would have been unable to do what he did the first time, because Sephiroth could easily stop him. That's why he didn't do it. Aside from the developers not wanting to get repetitious in how Cloud deals with Sephiroth as well. Let's not forget it's a movie we are talking about. Even if Cloud COULD have done it, the developers wouldn't have had him because that would just be repeating what they already did.

2. Yeah, they did better than Cloud when he was a weak nothing. It took him loosing his home town to fix that.

3. But you just said "It still seems contradictory" when I just got through explaining why it wasn't. If you understood why it wasn't contradictory, you wouldn't be saying it was contradictory, would you? So tell me why my explanation why it isn't contradictory is wrong, even though most people could easily see that WITHOUT need of explanation, or admit it isn't contradictory. One or the other.

4. You said you needed strength to perform Renzokuken and defeat giant monsters. That IS what you said. Technically you never said Super Strength (Though I think you did earlier but I'm not going all the way back to look), however I assumed that's what you meant since that is what we were talking about. Either that or you were just making an unrelated comment that had nothing to do with the debate. Especially since I never said, nor hold to the idea, that Squall isn't strong.

5. Yeah, so he might react quick, but he didn't physically get faster. He isn't super speeding through that jump. It's completely normal speed.

6. I never said you DID say Tifa was a super human. I'm saying you don't need to be super human to kill monsters. Tifa does it with her fists, completely un-super human. So Squall killing things with a SWORD isn't super human either, since Tifa isn't and she's unarmed.

How's Tifa not "super-human"?

You don't see 5'4 human females in today's world grabbing and throwing people to the ground, landing vertically up against the wall and doing all of those crazy sorts. It's ridiculous to say they aren't super-human.

Tifa may fight with only her fist, however she indeed is super-human in terms of feats, no way does she split a church pew apart with a simply back fist without some sort of super-human feat behind it.

Again, I'm inclined to believe that this fight would be very equal.

Tifa's still a peak human to me. The superhuman bonus is apparent to alot of regular humans in Final Fantasy games. Tifa's AC feats don't really convince me.

I still don't know why people won't just call this one even.

Originally posted by TacDavey
1. Actually, it DOES make sense. He was able to do it the first time because Sephiroth COULDN'T retaliate. He was too weak. The second time Sephiroth was perfectly fine. So Cloud would have been unable to do what he did the first time, because Sephiroth could easily stop him. That's why he didn't do it. Aside from the developers not wanting to get repetitious in how Cloud deals with Sephiroth as well. Let's not forget it's a movie we are talking about. Even if Cloud COULD have done it, the developers wouldn't have had him because that would just be repeating what they already did.

2. Yeah, they did better than Cloud when he was a weak nothing. It took him loosing his home town to fix that.

3. But you just said "It still seems contradictory" when I just got through explaining why it wasn't. If you understood why it wasn't contradictory, you wouldn't be saying it was contradictory, would you? So tell me why my explanation why it isn't contradictory is wrong, even though most people could easily see that WITHOUT need of explanation, or admit it isn't contradictory. One or the other.

1. Except Sephiroth DIDN'T retaliated in AC, as for Cloud... he had time, he tried to hold the Masamune without any success, he couldn't retaliate, which means, he can't throw any men in a fight. Face it, Cloud was much stronger, he couldn't, he can't. I'm glad you admit Sephiroth's condition IS important after all, and taking words from your previous posts, you implied Cloud could do it also for PIS, since, according to you, he was 'angered'. 😐

2. Lmao. Not really, just because my brother gets killed doesn't mean I will turn powerful. That makes absolutely no sense. They did better because they were better.

3. You said 'if I see someone lifting a big object then that's having super-strength', then you said 'if someone don't lift a heavy object doesn't mean they don't have super-strength', the difference is that you can tell if someone does. But if someone doesn't, then doesn't mean they can't, that's basically what you said, RIGHT? And you know what the word 'seems' means, right? It gave me the IMPRESSION that it still was 'contradictory', I didn't said 'that IS still contradictory'. Besides, at what paragraph are you replying to...? Who cares about 'most people'? Maybe other people gets your points, maybe other people doesn't get your points, who cares?

Originally posted by TacDavey
4. You said you needed strength to perform Renzokuken and defeat giant monsters. That IS what you said. Technically you never said Super Strength (Though I think you did earlier but I'm not going all the way back to look), however I assumed that's what you meant since that is what we were talking about. Either that or you were just making an unrelated comment that had nothing to do with the debate. Especially since I never said, nor hold to the idea, that Squall isn't strong.

5. Yeah, so he might react quick, but he didn't physically get faster. He isn't super speeding through that jump. It's completely normal speed.

6. I never said you DID say Tifa was a super human. I'm saying you don't need to be super human to kill monsters. Tifa does it with her fists, completely un-super human. So Squall killing things with a SWORD isn't super human either, since Tifa isn't and she's unarmed.

4. I said that to demolish giant monsters, you need super-strength, NOT that in order to use Renzokuken you need super-strength. I said that special attacks are usually stronger than normal attacks, that's just how things works, you know? That's the way it is.

5. He can react and move super-quick. Squall's agility is awesome, as seen in that video. To perform such jump, you, in fact, need A LOT of physical strength. Like Indrid just pointed out, Squall is in decline, usually when you're in decline, you are jumping from another side, not to mention he's from above the guard's head and the prison's center, which proves it. I know you don't like Squall, but you are going to have to deal with this. Oh, and If I remember correctly, even no one in AC could jump that long AND fast in just about a second.

6. But you implied it, since you touched the 'super-human' stuff when NO ONE has said something related to it. It depends what kind of monsters, if those are just some bugs, then yes. Considering that Zell effortlessly punched a train's floor making it to shake causing errors in its system, what Tifa does in FFVII is literally garbage, since... She does nothing at all. 😐

Oh, and:

Effortlessly making a train shake by a punch >> Breaking an already broken chair by a punch. 🍺

Originally posted by TacDavey
Yes, actually. That makes Cloud a super human from a world where humans already have the potential to be pretty super. So... I guess you could call it a super super human.

Originally posted by TacDavey
GFs give the users something. It isn't really clear what they do for them, but I don't see any reason to think they gave Squall super strength.

Originally posted by JustFrame
How's Tifa not "super-human"?

You don't see 5'4 human females in today's world grabbing and throwing people to the ground, landing vertically up against the wall and doing all of those crazy sorts. It's ridiculous to say they aren't super-human.

Tifa may fight with only her fist, however she indeed is super-human in terms of feats, no way does she split a church pew apart with a simply back fist without some sort of super-human feat behind it.

Again, I'm inclined to believe that this fight would be very equal.

We covered this many pages ago. Tifa is only considered super human if you compare her to us. People in the real world. Fantasy characters can do what she does without being super human.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
1. Except Sephiroth DIDN'T retaliated in AC, as for Cloud... he had time, he tried to hold the Masamune without any success, he couldn't retaliate, which means, he can't throw any men in a fight. Face it, Cloud was much stronger, he couldn't, he can't. I'm glad you admit Sephiroth's condition IS important after all, and taking words from your previous posts, you implied Cloud could do it also for PIS, since, according to you, he was 'angered'. 😐

2. Lmao. Not really, just because my brother gets killed doesn't mean I will turn powerful. That makes absolutely no sense. They did better because they were better.

3. You said 'if I see someone lifting a big object then that's having super-strength', then you said 'if someone don't lift a heavy object doesn't mean they don't have super-strength', the difference is that you can tell if someone does. But if someone doesn't, then doesn't mean they can't, that's basically what you said, RIGHT? And you know what the word 'seems' means, right? It gave me the IMPRESSION that it still was 'contradictory', I didn't said 'that IS still contradictory'. Besides, at what paragraph are you replying to...? Who cares about 'most people'? Maybe other people gets your points, maybe other people doesn't get your points, who cares?

4. I said that to demolish giant monsters, you need super-strength, NOT that in order to use Renzokuken you need super-strength. I said that special attacks are usually stronger than normal attacks, that's just how things works, you know? That's the way it is.

5. He can react and move super-quick. Squall's agility is awesome, as seen in that video. To perform such jump, you, in fact, need A LOT of physical strength. Like Indrid just pointed out, Squall is in decline, usually when you're in decline, you are jumping from another side, not to mention he's from above the guard's head and the prison's center, which proves it. I know you don't like Squall, but you are going to have to deal with this. Oh, and If I remember correctly, even no one in AC could jump that long AND fast in just about a second.

6. But you implied it, since you touched the 'super-human' stuff when NO ONE has said something related to it. It depends what kind of monsters, if those are just some bugs, then yes. Considering that Zell effortlessly punched a train's floor making it to shake causing errors in its system, what Tifa does in FFVII is literally garbage, since... She does nothing at all. 😐

Oh, and:

Effortlessly making a train shake by a punch >> Breaking an already broken chair by a punch. 🍺

1. I know. Sephiroth didn't retaliate because Cloud didn't try to do it. He never tried pulling himself up the sword and throwing Sephiroth. So Sephiroth never retaliated against something Cloud never tried to do. However, he would have had Cloud tried. And again, the developers aren't going to have Cloud do the same thing twice.

2. In fantasy settings it happens all the time. It takes a traumatic experience to awaken people's true abilities or whatever. The point is, Cloud did it. Which means he can do it, because he did it. If he couldn't do it, he wouldn't have done it. Period.

3. Good, then you see the two are not at all contradictory.

4. Demolish - kill, what's the difference? Tifa kills giant monsters without being super human.

5. Why do you keep insisting he moved super quick? He wasn't moving fast in that scene at all. That was a normal speed jump. We have no idea when he started the jump. You realize that the time he comes on screen is not the time it took him to complete the jump, right? That was the end of his jump. He probably started the jump back when Zell first got hit.

6. What? Bugs? No, Tifa fights with the rest of the team through all the monsters you see in FF7. Why are we now talking about Zell vs Tifa? Who cares if she doesn't punch trains in FF7? She kills big monsters with her bare hands.

Originally posted by IndridCold
Aren't we kinda boarding the edge of ridiculous here? meh....no matter.

Not really. A super human is someone with above human capabilities. If humans in the fantasy world can do things like Tifa, then a super human from that world can do even more.

Originally posted by IndridCold
GF's are for the most part exclusive to SeeD's. SeeD's are the only ones considered powerful enough to defeat the sorceress. Isn't it logical to assume that GF's grant SeeD's special ability and prowess compared to other standard humans? If they do, that by definition, may make them superhuman. Isn't that faily logical?

They might be considered super human, but that doesn't mean they have super strength. Also, I think the benefits they gain differ depending on what GF they have equipped.

Originally posted by TacDavey
1. I know. Sephiroth didn't retaliate because Cloud didn't try to do it. He never tried pulling himself up the sword and throwing Sephiroth. So Sephiroth never retaliated against something Cloud never tried to do. However, he would have had Cloud tried. And again, the developers aren't going to have Cloud do the same thing twice.

2. In fantasy settings it happens all the time. It takes a traumatic experience to awaken people's true abilities or whatever. The point is, Cloud did it. Which means he can do it, because he did it. If he couldn't do it, he wouldn't have done it. Period.

3. Good, then you see the two are not at all contradictory.

1. Lol'd. Cloud tried grabbing the Masamune without any success in moving it, so I dunno what pipe have you been smoking there. Watch ACC. Therefore, look, Cloud can't throw any men in a fight, it's simple. Men can throw Cloud while having him impaled. 🙂

2. Plot Induced Stupidity A.K.A. PIS. 😐
Cloud just did it by numerous and advantageous circumstances. Cloud sucked, you do realize that, am I right?

3. Dunno what you tried to imply by that, though.

Originally posted by TacDavey
4. Demolish - kill, what's the difference? Tifa kills giant monsters without being super human.

5. Why do you keep insisting he moved super quick? He wasn't moving fast in that scene at all. That was a normal speed jump. We have no idea when he started the jump. You realize that the time he comes on screen is not the time it took him to complete the jump, right? That was the end of his jump. He probably started the jump back when Zell first got hit.

6. What? Bugs? No, Tifa fights with the rest of the team through all the monsters you see in FF7. Why are we now talking about Zell vs Tifa? Who cares if she doesn't punch trains in FF7? She kills big monsters with her bare hands.

4. Ask Elvoret if 'demolish' and 'kill' is the same thing. What giant monsters...? She had notorious problems fighting some shadow monsters and she couldn't even hurt BS. Lolwut? Period. 😐

5. Because he moved super-quick, it was a super-quick jump, his landing was super-quick and his slash was super-quick. Why do YOU insist he isn't moving fast at all? Squall wasn't even there when Zell was being shot by hundred of guards. It's the same, it was just in a freaking second. Soz, evidence is on screen. Deal with it. 😐

6. No she doesn't. Name me one of those giant monsters that she 'supposedly' kills? She showed her abiliy at a solo fighter with Scarlet, remember? I would like to see that fight with AC graphics....... droolio Also, read above. 🙂

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
1. Lol'd. Cloud tried grabbing the Masamune without any success in moving it, so I dunno what pipe have you been smoking there. Watch ACC. Therefore, look, Cloud can't throw any men in a fight, it's simple. Men can throw Cloud while having him impaled. 🙂

2. Plot Induced Stupidity A.K.A. PIS. 😐
Cloud just did it by numerous and advantageous circumstances. Cloud sucked, you do realize that, am I right?

3. Dunno what you tried to imply by that, though.

4. Ask Elvoret if 'demolish' and 'kill' is the same thing. What giant monsters...? She had notorious problems fighting some shadow monsters and she couldn't even hurt BS. Lolwut? Period. 😐

5. Because he moved super-quick, it was a super-quick jump, his landing was super-quick and his slash was super-quick. Why do YOU insist he isn't moving fast at all? Squall wasn't even there when Zell was being shot by hundred of guards. It's the same, it was just in a freaking second. Soz, evidence is on screen. Deal with it. 😐

6. No she doesn't. Name me one of those giant monsters that she 'supposedly' kills? She showed her abiliy at a solo fighter with Scarlet, remember? I would like to see that fight with AC graphics....... droolio Also, read above. 🙂

1. Cloud grabbed the sword, but he didn't try pulling himself up the blade. He wasn't trying to do what he did in the reactor. Deal with it.

2. PIS is a stupid excuse for people who have no counter argument to try and rid the opposing character of feats.

3. I wasn't implying anything. I made two comments. Neither of which contradicted the other. You said they were contradictory and I showed that they weren't.

4. She's a part of the FF7 team, or did you forget? She was right next to Cloud through the game, which consisted of fighting several big scary monsters.

5. Yeah, it was, like, a second AT THE END OF THE JUMP. What we see in that scene isn't his full jump you know. It's just him finishing it. The actual jump took longer than the few seconds we see it on screen. There was no super speed involved, the evidence is on the screen. Deal with it.

6. Read above.

Originally posted by TacDavey
1. Cloud grabbed the sword, but he didn't try pulling himself up the blade. He wasn't trying to do what he did in the reactor. Deal with it.

2. PIS is a stupid excuse for people who have no counter argument to try and rid the opposing character of feats.

3. I wasn't implying anything. I made two comments. Neither of which contradicted the other. You said they were contradictory and I showed that they weren't.

1. Actually, he grabbed the Masamune in the attempt of getting rid of it, look also at his legs, he's trying to get off the stab. Undeniable.

2. Cloud did what he did in the reactor for reasons SpadeKing and I have posted. You brought his hometown and 'traumatic experiences' to justify it, well, that is called PIS, it isn't any excuse. 😬

3. I've already answered this point. Get over it.

Originally posted by TacDavey
4. She's a part of the FF7 team, or did you forget? She was right next to Cloud through the game, which consisted of fighting several big scary monsters.

5. Yeah, it was, like, a second AT THE END OF THE JUMP. What we see in that scene isn't his full jump you know. It's just him finishing it. The actual jump took longer than the few seconds we see it on screen. There was no super speed involved, the evidence is on the screen. Deal with it.

6. Read above.

4.

What giant monsters...? She had notorious problems fighting some shadow monsters and she couldn't even hurt BS. Lolwut?

5. The end of the jump was when Squall was on the floor, with the guard on the floor as well (lol). When Squall appears, it was like a fash, I had problems pausing the scene, it was less than a second, that's damn fast considering he crossed the entire room. Sir, get over it.

Your 'supah-supah-human' couldn't pass through a guy standing on a door, Squall passed through an armed guard in less than a second. Deal with it. 😱

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
1. Actually, he grabbed the Masamune in the attempt of getting rid of it, look also at his legs, he's trying to get off the stab. Undeniable.

2. Cloud did what he did in the reactor for reasons SpadeKing and I have posted. You brought his hometown and 'traumatic experiences' to justify it, well, that is called PIS, it isn't any excuse. 😬

3. I've already answered this point. Get over it.

4.

5. The end of the jump was when Squall was on the floor, with the guard on the floor as well (lol). When Squall appears, it was like a fash, I had problems pausing the scene, it was less than a second, that's damn fast considering he crossed the entire room. Sir, get over it.

Your 'supah-supah-human' couldn't pass through a guy standing on a door, Squall passed through an armed guard in less than a second. Deal with it. 😱

1. No he isn't. He's just hanging there. He is making no attempt to pull himself up the sword.

2. It iS an excuse. Cloud pulls an awesome feat, and you pass it off as PIS to try and get rid of it. The developers had Cloud perform it, so they must have wanted him to be able to do it, thus it's one of his feats.

3. You said "I don't know what you tried to imply by that". It's you who is continuing this point.

4.

Originally posted by TacDavey
She's a part of the FF7 team, or did you forget? She was right next to Cloud through the game, which consisted of fighting several big scary monsters.

5. You had problems pausing it? I didn't. I'm sorry, but those few seconds we see of the jump are just Squall coming out of the jump. They are not THE jump. THE jump took much longer. You are taking the last few seconds of that jump, and claiming it was super fast because it only took a few seconds. I can do the same. I can take the last .03 seconds of a car crossing the finish line of a race and claim it is super fast because that car just finished the race in .03 seconds. Never mind the rest of the time we don't see, which consisted of the car going around the track in a perfectly normal speed.

Squall didn't make that jump in .03 seconds. He made the jump in exactly the amount of time it SHOULD have taken to make a jump, and we only see .03 seconds of it.

Couldn't pass through a guy standing on a door? What are you talking about? Unless that guy you were talking about is stronger than Sephiroth, he could pass through him. He decided not to for other reasons.

Originally posted by TacDavey
1. No he isn't. He's just hanging there. He is making no attempt to pull himself up the sword.

2. It iS an excuse. Cloud pulls an awesome feat, and you pass it off as PIS to try and get rid of it. The developers had Cloud perform it, so they must have wanted him to be able to do it, thus it's one of his feats.

3. You said "I don't know what you tried to imply by that". It's you who is continuing this point.

1. He's trying to get off the stab. 😐

2. Nah, no excuses. We already explained why he did it. What you brought up afterwards is called PIS, I am not to blame. 😬

3. Eh... And you did answered that question? Yes? Then the one who is continuing is u. 🤨

Originally posted by TacDavey
4.

5. You had problems pausing it? I didn't. I'm sorry, but those few seconds we see of the jump are just Squall coming out of the jump. They are not THE jump. THE jump took much longer. You are taking the last few seconds of that jump, and claiming it was super fast because it only took a few seconds. I can do the same. I can take the last .03 seconds of a car crossing the finish line of a race and claim it is super fast because that car just finished the race in .03 seconds. Never mind the rest of the time we don't see, which consisted of the car going around the track in a perfectly normal speed.

Squall didn't make that jump in .03 seconds. He made the jump in exactly the amount of time it SHOULD have taken to make a jump, and we only see .03 seconds of it.

Couldn't pass through a guy standing on a door? What are you talking about? Unless that guy you were talking about is stronger than Sephiroth, he could pass through him. He decided not to for other reasons.

4.

What giant monsters...? She had notorious problems fighting some shadow monsters and she couldn't even hurt BS. Lolwut?

5. You mean thousandths, and yeah, the end of the jump was when Squall is already on the floor, not before. Nah, tch, do no misquote my post, I never said that was his entire jump, so, nope. We know he pretty much crossed the room, that was damn fast, that's the way it is. His entire jump lasted around 1 second, easily. And he didn't break a sweat. 🙂

Cloud's speed didn't help him, or he isn't so fast after all. He couldn't trick a normal guy standing on a door, nor even beat him with a punch... He had to dress as a woman to do so. On the other hand, Squall can pass through armed security guards without breaking a sweat. These are facts. 🙂

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
1. He's trying to get off the stab. 😐

2. Nah, no excuses. We already explained why he did it. What you brought up afterwards is called PIS, I am not to blame. 😬

3. Eh... And you did answered that question? Yes? Then the one who is continuing is u. 🤨

4.

5. You mean thousandths, and yeah, the end of the jump was when Squall is already on the floor, not before. Nah, tch, do no misquote my post, I never said that was his entire jump, so, nope. We know he pretty much crossed the room, that was damn fast, that's the way it is. His entire jump lasted around 1 second, easily. And he didn't break a sweat. 🙂

Cloud's speed didn't help him, or he isn't so fast after all. He couldn't trick a normal guy standing on a door, nor even beat him with a punch... He had to dress as a woman to do so. On the other hand, Squall can pass through armed security guards without breaking a sweat. These are facts. 🙂

1. I don't see him making any move to do so at all. He CERTAINLY isn't trying to pull himself up the blade, which was originally the point.

2. PIS is an excuse.

3. Wrong. You made the "imply" comment. That provokes further discussion.

4.

Originally posted by TacDavey
She's a part of the FF7 team, or did you forget? She was right next to Cloud through the game, which consisted of fighting several big scary monsters.

5. See? How do you know his jump was around 1 second when you don't know when the jump started? Couple that with the fact that he's moving perfectly normal speed when we DO see him on screen, and you come to the logical conclusion that Squall performed a normal speed jump. No super speed.

That was to make the game more interesting. Tell me this. Do you think that guard could defeat Sephiroth? No. Also take into account the fact that Cloud takes out 3 of them a little later.

It was suppose to be a humorous plot point. We all know Cloud can take out any number of those guys.

Originally posted by TacDavey
1. I don't see him making any move to do so at all. He CERTAINLY isn't trying to pull himself up the blade, which was originally the point.

2. PIS is an excuse.

3. Wrong. You made the "imply" comment. That provokes further discussion.

1. He wasn't grabbing the Masamune with both hands, which doesn't means he wasn't trying to get off the stab.

2. You brought it up. We already explained why Cloud did, what he did.

3. You unnecessarily responded 'I wasn't implying'', and I responded 'I already responded'. You continued. 😐

Originally posted by TacDavey
4.

5. See? How do you know his jump was around 1 second when you don't know when the jump started? Couple that with the fact that he's moving perfectly normal speed when we DO see him on screen, and you come to the logical conclusion that Squall performed a normal speed jump. No super speed.

That was to make the game more interesting. Tell me this. Do you think that guard could defeat Sephiroth? No. Also take into account the fact that Cloud takes out 3 of them a little later.

It was suppose to be a humorous plot point. We all know Cloud can take out any number of those guys.

4.

She had notorious problems fighting some shadow monsters and she couldn't even hurt BS. Lolwut?

5. For istance, Squall wasn't even there when Zell was being pursued by hundred of soldiers and guards. He must have showed up when the guard shoots Zell, and then he jumped to save Zell's head, almost in time, and that's around just 1 second. Super-speed, bro.

No one has said the guard is stronger than Sephiroth, stop miquoting my posts. Then you bring a 'plot point' to justify your argument once again, (see point 2), that is called PIS.

Cloud had ways of passing through that guy, and he didn't, he couldn't because he isn't so fast, or he isn't smart enough. Or is PIS. 😬 Either way Squall could have done it with ease.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
1. He wasn't grabbing the Masamune with both hands, which doesn't means he wasn't trying to get off the stab.

2. You brought it up. We already explained why Cloud did, what he did.

3. You unnecessarily responded 'I wasn't implying'', and I responded 'I already responded'. You continued. 😐

4.

5. For istance, Squall wasn't even there when Zell was being pursued by hundred of soldiers and guards. He must have showed up when the guard shoots Zell, and then he jumped to save Zell's head, almost in time, and that's around just 1 second. Super-speed, bro.

No one has said the guard is stronger than Sephiroth, stop miquoting my posts. Then you bring a 'plot point' to justify your argument once again, (see point 2), that is called PIS.

Cloud had ways of passing through that guy, and he didn't, he couldn't because he isn't so fast, or he isn't smart enough. Or is PIS. 😬 Either way Squall could have done it with ease.

1. He wasn't trying to pull himself up the blade and throw Sephiroth off a cliff.

2. Because he could.

3. Okay okay okay. Screw point 3.

4.

Originally posted by TacDavey
She's a part of the FF7 team, or did you forget? She was right next to Cloud through the game, which consisted of fighting several big scary monsters.

5. We have NO IDEA when Squall showed up. You can't claim that we do.

You implied Cloud was weaker than the guard. Thus, the guard must be stronger than Sephiroth. PIS? What? I think the fact that Cloud kills three of them is enough evidence to logically say he is stronger than ONE of them. Not to mention the fact that they are weaker than even the lowest level Soldier, and Cloud is on level with Soldier first class.

The stupidity in the plot is the fact that he didn't kill the guard. The developers wanted to add more to the game than just bust in and destroy everything. They also wanted to throw in some humor and a little side quest to get in.