Vong Slayer Vs Marka Ragnos

And Vader? Sidious? I don't even understand how you can call them DLOTS.. Who crowned them? Who crowned Bane?

So, I guess Lucas is wrong, the entire EU is wrong -- since they were never formally baptized by Ragnos.

Where does it say Marka Ragnos has to "crown" them for them to be DLOTS?

Did he "crown" Revan? Did he circumsize Malak? No. Did he baptize x, y, and z Sith Lords? No.

Just goes to show you that Ragnos isn't the presiding factor over every Sith Lord, and there's no need for him to make a Special Guest appearence in order for someone to become a DLOTS.

Yeah, that would get really old, really fast...Lucas calls them Sith, good enough for much. In fact, Palpatine was, by far the greatest Sith Lord who ever lived.

Again, he is the greatest of the dark lords

Subjective. It's generally accepted that Palpatine (and Vader I guess) is the "greatest"

the most powerful of the most powerful

I agree. But it's arguable.

the one who had the final answer to crowning Exar Kun.

So? Who the hell else was alive as a ghost to crown him?

The true nature of the sith, the ancient sith empire, and the concept of DLOTS died with Exar Kun.

What nature? Betrayal? Evil? The Dark Side? I remember seeing those later. And again, just because it's from the "Ancient Sith Empire" doesn't make it more 'sith' than anything else. The new Sith empire was stated to be "greater" (not more powerful, mind you) than the old one. And Bane's Order is easily the greatest Sith order.

Why? Oh yeah, they took over the galaxy. Whereas Ragnos had... 1/10th of that?

After that came about the new sith obviously who were completely different than the original concept, and less powerful.

How were they different?

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
So, I guess Lucas is wrong, the entire EU is wrong -- since they were never formally baptized by Ragnos.

Where does it say Marka Ragnos has to "crown" them for them to be DLOTS?

Did he "crown" Revan? Did he circumsize Malak? No. Did he baptize x, y, and z Sith Lords? No.

Just goes to show you that Ragnos isn't the presiding factor over every Sith Lord, and there's no need for him to make a Special Guest appearence in order for someone to become a DLOTS.

Revan wasn't a DLOTS...Stop putting words into my mouth.. Ragnos crowned Exar Kun, what does that tell you? IF you said absolutely nothing, then you're ignorant. The nature of the sith and the concept of DLOTS were entirely different once the new sith came about. Not to mention Bane didn't know about Ragnos, nor did Vader, since neither one of them were ever known to be on Korriban. And Veneficius, your unfounded assumptions are always a joy to this forum.

Vader's been on Korriban, so has Bane. Eother way, you're wrong: The comics, the source materials, Lucas...calls them Sith.

Originally posted by tdtd
Revan wasn't a DLOTS...Stop putting words into my mouth.. Ragnos crowned Exar Kun, what does that tell you? IF you said absolutely nothing, then you're ignorant. The nature of the sith and the concept of DLOTS were entirely different once the new sith came about. Not to mention Bane didn't know about Ragnos, nor did Vader, since neither one of them were ever known to be on Korriban. And Veneficius, your unfounded assumptions are always a joy to this forum.

Originally posted by Razielim
[b]Again, he is the greatest of the dark lords

Subjective. It's generally accepted that Palpatine (and Vader I guess) is the "greatest"

the most powerful of the most powerful

I agree. But it's arguable.

the one who had the final answer to crowning Exar Kun.

So? Who the hell else was alive as a ghost to crown him?

The true nature of the sith, the ancient sith empire, and the concept of DLOTS died with Exar Kun.

What nature? Betrayal? Evil? The Dark Side? I remember seeing those later. And again, just because it's from the "Ancient Sith Empire" doesn't make it more 'sith' than anything else. The new Sith empire was stated to be "greater" (not more powerful, mind you) than the old one. And Bane's Order is easily the greatest Sith order.

Why? Oh yeah, they took over the galaxy. Whereas Ragnos had... 1/10th of that?

After that came about the new sith obviously who were completely different than the original concept, and less powerful.

How were they different? [/B]

Lets see, if I recall correctly they were on Korriban, which was the final resting place of all the DLOTS from the past, so what makes you think it was just Ragnos? Either way it says a lot if he had the final word on the one who was supposed to bring the second coming of the Golden Age. The True empire was the Ancient Sith empire. The New sith dealt with stealth, they had no concept of their origins.. And yes, I meant the most powerful not greatest, obviously Bane's order was greater because Sidious was part of it and he conquered the galaxy whereas Ragnos didn't expand because in his time, the sith weren't powerful enough to defeat the Republic.. And yes, the new sith were greater, but they were not as powerful as the ancient sith, they did however have greater numbers, and the concept of stealth helped after the rule of two was created.

No concept of their origins? Which is why they did a much better job in conquering the galaxy?

New Sith>The old. Once more, Lucas and the EU call them Sith, proof enough

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Vader's been on Korriban, so has Bane. Eother way, you're wrong: The comics, the source materials, Lucas...calls them Sith.

What does that have to do with anything lightsnake? Prove Vader was on Korriban, prove Bane was on Korriban.. Yea, either way I'm wrong, aka "I don't have shit to prove besides my lack of SW Knowledge".

Why was Revan any different from Kun or Sadow? Only thing I can think of is Sith alchemy.

They were all Dark Lords of the Sith.

Ragnos, Sadow, Kressh, Exar Kun, Revan, Malak, Nihilus, Kaan, (? I'm missing one), Bane, Palpatine, Vader.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No concept of their origins? Which is why they did a much better job in conquering the galaxy?

We're discussing power, not greatness. They achieved more but in terms of power, nothing even remotely suggets they compared to the ancient sith, who started it all.

New Sith>The old.

1. Bane of the Sith, Bane goes to Onderon, and is later stated to have visited Korriban with Zannah.

2. It's been mentioned Palpatine often spoent time on Korriban, and took Vader with him there...Vader even had a throne crafted besides the Ancients

Revan was a DLOTS? Nihilus was a DLOTS? Malak was a DLOTS? Are you insane? Aside from Wikipedia, nothing ever suggests Revan was anything but a sith lord, and Nihilus/Malak were certainly NOT DLOTS

Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. Bane of the Sith, Bane goes to Onderon, and is later stated to have visited Korriban with Zannah.

I know Palpatine has been on Korriban, it's where his spirit was guided to after he was thrown down the shaft. Where does it show Bane visiting Korriban, or Vader? I don't believe any of the new sith had any concept of the ancient sith, except for Palpatine.

2. It's been mentioned Palpatine often spoent time on Korriban, and took Vader with him there...Vader even had a throne crafted besides the Ancients

CERTAINLY not that Revan was the leader of all the Sith at that time and is referred to as DLOTS, along with Chronology. And no, nothing suggest they were stronger...except Palp having their own training and knowing all the aspects and powers they did?

He's right; the Ancient Sith invited Vader to sit at Korriban. They wouldn't have a chair prepared if they don't even know about him.

And it kinda shows his greatness there.

It's mentioned in KOTOR in several places. Bastila and I think Dorak call Revan the DLOTS and they call Malak the same. If I muster the energy I'll go check.

Originally posted by tdtd
Revan was a DLOTS? Nihilus was a DLOTS? Malak was a DLOTS? Are you insane? Aside from Wikipedia, nothing ever suggests Revan was anything but a sith lord, and Nihilus/Malak were certainly NOT DLOTS

You DO realize of course that everyone referred to Revan as the Dark Lord?

And wrong again! Darth Ruin started the New Sith with what he had from the Ancient Empire, holocrons included. It was stated Vader's been to Korriban and Bane expressed his intentions to go there.

Show me evidence jackass, something other than Wikipedia, and I HAVE played KOTOR where Revan was mentioned as a Sith Lord.. Quit while you're behind...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And wrong again! Darth Ruin started the New Sith with what he had from the Ancient Empire, holocrons included. It was stated Vader's been to Korriban and Bane expressed his intentions to go there.

Sources? Come on lightsnake, not supershadow.