Ok, being armed doesn't only prevent being robbed(how many stores have defended themselves from armed robbers because they had a gun under the counter), but also women being raped, home invasions, etc.
It's too easy now to get a gun illegally, making it more illegal will not do anything except make it easier for those with illegal guns to invade people's homes, rob stores, etc.
Besides, how many americans WOULDN'T riot if guns were banned? I bet the whole state of texas starts a revolt.
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Err, no, how do you figure it's the contrary?? If getting a gun illegally is illegal in the first place...adding another law to make them more illegal is going to do what? Nothing. The criminal will still have a way to get an illegal gun. Yet, the normal citizen is restriced to having no gun to protect themselves.How many robbers do you think would be deterred by the thought of being shot by a regular citizen? "Hmm, do i try to take this guy's $50, knowing there is a higher possibility that this guy will shoot me in the face?" Or what about rapists who can't rape a woman because she can shoot his balls off? No, that wouldn't deter a criminal at all 🙄
You can try and argue logic from subjective situations all you like.
But here are the hard facts.
If you combine the populations of Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, you get roughly the same population as the US.
In the year 2000, thouse countries combined had 112 gun deaths. The US had 32000.
The US gun death rate is actually 300 times that in comparably civilised countries. THREE HUNDRED TIMES. This is not a minor issue. It is slaughter.
Everyone is looking at the US, a country that likes to pride its civilised nature, and saying "Are you mad? Why the heck can you not keep your gun issue under control? What is wrong wit you people?"
The average London doctor wills see less gun injuries in his life time than the average New York Doctor will in in one week.
There is a mass amount of death beung dealt over there that is staggeringly out of propotion from any prevention of crime. It is very, VERY clear to all observers that your gun culture is cuasing crime, not prventing it. An armed citizenry does NOT prevent any significant amount of crime. It does, however, makes criminals much more likely to be armed themselves, and it does make it way easier for people to snap one day and commit gun crime.
We ALL have illegal guns around, you know. Each of our countries. We all have similar ethnic and gang-related tensions. Our general crime rates are very similar- it is not as if these other countries are more sophisticated places to live in other ways. It is ONLY the guns. They are the difference. Just look at the situation. Muggings- similar. Rapings- similar. Burglary- similar. Gun death- oh, 300 times higher in the US? Assault- similar. And so on.
You cannot run away from this truth for much longer. The gun issue in your country MUST be addressed.
So what is it going to be? Do you want to accept that Americans are just more murderous than any other people? Or do you finally want to conceed what everyone has known for years and years, that your open policy for gun ownership fuels a mentality where, illegal or otherwise, people get shot in your country all the damn time?
Like I say, this is a black mark on the States. It is something that makes other countries look at you and consider you uncivilised. It is a dark heart beating at your centre, and if the UN wants to codify a widely held opinion on that matter, then you are just going to have to lump it.
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Ok, being armed doesn't only prevent being robbed(how many stores have defended themselves from armed robbers because they had a gun under the counter), but also women being raped, home invasions, etc.It's too easy now to get a gun illegally, making it more illegal will not do anything except make it easier for those with illegal guns to invade people's homes, rob stores, etc.
Does it always though? If the figures we get here from the US are correct being extremely liberal when it comes to gun ownership does not appear to have have had a huge impact in reducing crime - rape, murder. In fact quite the opposite, especially when it comes to gun related injury and fatality, criminal and noncriminal, intentional or not.
Now there are some nations that have quite open gun laws that have relatively few problems, and there are those that have a lot. I think you have it here -
Besides, how many americans WOULDN'T riot if guns were banned? I bet the whole state of texas starts a revolt.
It is very much a cultural thing. Australia, for example, had far laxer gun laws a few years ago then now. Something bad happened that made the government rethink this - it was agreed the common person didn't really have need of guns, there were no real statistics which supported the claim they reduced crime or victimisation - laws were introduced and a by back of the now illegal guns initiated. Now, it was quite successful, and it did have a good effect on crime figures, and with sufficient policing of the law overall it was, and continues to be, a statistically sound move. Of course there are still illegal guns around. Still a black market. But the problem of guns is vastly reduced.
Of course gun culture was not so nearly ingrained here, and there are still avenues available for those who need to use guns. I don't think it would be wise for the UN, or really even work, to try to promote a global ban on guns at this point in time. However I am all for tougher gun laws, restriction of certain types of guns and so forth. The UN would be better of promoting tougher global gun laws then a total ban. Or maybe to try to improve gun culture - to educate, which is the first and most important step on the path of change.
And well said Ushgarak, you stated that perfectly.
The trick would be to stop the manufacturing of guns, not banning ownership. Yet, what arms manufacturing companies would stop completely? None
"If the figures we get here from the US are correct being extremely liberal when it comes to gun ownership does not appear to have have had a huge impact in reducing crime - rape, murder. In fact quite the opposite, especially when it comes to gun related injury and fatality, criminal and noncriminal, intentional or not."
Because the places with highest crime rates, New York, L.A., Chicago etc are full of citizens who don't want to own guns(they're full of 'liberals'😉, but a whole bunch of criminals who do. Crime rates in cities or towns with a higher volume of legally owned guns are actually lower. So it does work.
Also, a ban on guns disarms the police force. the NYPD is larger than many country's armies, yet criminals with illegal guns still outnumber them. Take away their guns and they'd be useless. There was a 2 month stretch where 8 police officers were shot and half of them died. and that's when they're armed. Imagine if they tried having billy clubs instead.
Switzerland's gun ownership laws are successful against crime because everyone owns a gun, not a third of the population.
How is the crime rate (Not gun crime, I'm so tired of hearing people seperate crime and gun crime... there is no root difference), of those countries Ushgarak mentioned combined? Greater or lower than the U.S.?
If you look at Canada, it is double the crime rate of the U.S. Guns obviously contribute to crime, but they also help prevent it. Of course, people only like to see the bad and never really look at the good... including me.
Also, a ban on guns disarms the police force. the NYPD is larger than many country's armies, yet criminals with illegal guns still outnumber them. Take away their guns and they'd be useless. There was a 2 month stretch where 8 police officers were shot and half of them died. and that's when they're armed. Imagine if they tried having billy clubs instead.
It'd be pointless to have a police force where they die every ten minutes.
Originally posted by Bardock42ok 😕
What about this: A good amount of you Americans are freaking Psychopaths...
Though we can get a permit to carry one in our pockets.....you don't have to pull it out to shoot someone who is pointing one at you....All ya got to do is keep your hands in your pockets and fiddle around a little bit........ 😉
Though I do own a hand gun, I've never used it. I do however carry a knife......There's just something about that that I like.......I've always done so.... 😗
Originally posted by debbiejo
ok 😕Though we can get a permit to carry one in our pockets.....you don't have to pull it out to shoot someone who is pointing one at you....All ya got to do is keep your hands in your pockets and fiddle around a little bit........ 😉
Though I do own a hand gun, I've never used it. I do however carry a knife......There's just something about that that I like.......I've always done so....
Great, I never carried a gun or a knife...and I am still alive....go me.
Originally posted by Bardock42It doesn't matter. If someone really wanted a gun, they'll get one, even if they were banned. That would leave the criminals armed, and the innocent public unarmed.....IF the criminals know that a person might have a gun, they'll think twice..
Obviously not...you know why we don't? CAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ****ING GUNS.
Originally posted by NineCoronas
❌ Drug crime is higher in LA, Detroit, or Chicago than gun crime. Sorry mate, but blaming the world's problems on guns doesn't work.
Drug Crime doesn't hurt innocent bystanders though.
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
That may have been the most ignorant statement about ghettos that I have ever seen.Congratulations.
It wasn't a comment about ghettos it was a comment about dangerous places.
Dangerous Places because of guns to be more correct.
Originally posted by debbiejo
It doesn't matter. If someone really wanted a gun, they'll get one, even if they were banned. That would leave the criminals armed, and the innocent public unarmed.....IF the criminals know that a person might have a gun, they'll think twice..
Why doesn't it happen here? Why? Any reason?
Originally posted by Bardock42
Drug Crime doesn't hurt innocent bystanders though.
Of course it does. Crack heads rob and steal to pay for another fix all the time.
It wasn't a comment about ghettos it was a comment about dangerous places.
Dangerous Places because of guns to be more correct.
Dangerous places because of poverty. But you were close. Almost. Sort of. Not really.
Why doesn't it happen here? Why? Any reason? [/B]
Becauuse you dont have a constitution that says it's ok to own a gun to protect yourself on both an individual and on the level of public revolution.
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Of course it does. Crack heads rob and steal to pay for another fix all the time.Dangerous places because of poverty. But you were close. Almost. Sort of. Not really.
Becauuse you dont have a constitution that says it's ok to own a gun to protect yourself on both an individual and on the level of public revolution.
That is not drug crimes though, that is stealing and robbing.
How would driving through such a neighbourhood be dangerous if....they wouldn't have guns?
Well if that is the answer, thank God we don't. I personally enjoy living.
UK police didn't carry guns long before the gun ban came in.
The gun ban didn't apply to police. They simply don't carry them by policy.
So that link is ridiculous.
So meanwhile, does anyone want to address the important issue? WHY does America have such a ludicrous gun crime rate?
I mean, do you actiually want us to think it is because you are all more psychotic by nature? And if that were so, why aren't your knife crime rates any higher?
Again, the ONLY difference of note is the gun crime rate!