Midnighter vs Wolverine

Originally posted by leonidas
you seem to be insisting that wolvie's durability is an issue. he has proven quite conclusively to be enormously resistant to injury. his strength level is independent of his durability so i'm not sure i see your comparison dc. and don't forget -- recently even THOR has been ko'd by a bullet!

as for the 'realistic hits'. there is an undeniable conflict there. perhaps wolverine instinctively rolls with hits? perhaps his adamantium is absorbing some of the shock and his healing does the rest? spidey deals with similar issues. as does batman. as do most street levellers when they fight cl100 opponents. it just doesn't make sense to ignore what is on panel time and time again. as a result we are forced to try and fashion some all-encompassing explanation to explain it.

yahman's right about one thing -- it's a comic book. the only evidence in that sens eis what we see consistently in comics. explain it however you'd like. it doesn't change what has happened time and time again.

😄

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Sorry mate, i cant find it, you'll have to post it again. 🙂

Woops your bad then..............

Originally posted by leonidas
😄

Hmmmmmm .... One thing heh ? 🙁 🙂

'Woops your bad then..............'

Ok, you are now officially on my FLAMING list .... 😉

you seem to be insisting that wolvie's durability is an issue. he has proven quite conclusively to be enormously resistant to injury. his strength level is independent of his durability so i'm not sure i see your comparison dc. and don't forget -- recently even THOR has been ko'd by a bullet!

Thor being knocked out by a bullet is pretty crappy writing, though. And what about his durability? Sure, he can survive one blow because he can heal from it.

as for the 'realistic hits'. there is an undeniable conflict there. perhaps wolverine instinctively rolls with hits? perhaps his adamantium is absorbing some of the shock and his healing does the rest? spidey deals with similar issues. as does batman. as do most street levellers when they fight cl100 opponents. it just doesn't make sense to ignore what is on panel time and time again. as a result we are forced to try and fashion some all-encompassing explanation to explain it.

Or perhaps characters only hit Wolverine with full force when he flies? Hit A = Wolverine doesn't fly and suffers less injuries. Hit B = Wolverine flies. Common sense tells us that the Hit B was more powerful...now apply that sense here...

Hit A = Namor hits thing that weighs 500 pounds, moving it one feet backwards. Hit B = Namor hits thing that weights ten thousand tons and topples it, moving it about 100 feet backwards.

Again, common sense tells us that Hit B is far more powerful hit. Another thing that tells that are sound effects, artistic depiction, etc...

Now here are two pictures. Using the simple examples shown above, try to depict which hit had more force behind it?

Hit A OR Hit B?

yahman's right about one thing -- it's a comic book. the only evidence in that sens eis what we see consistently in comics. explain it however you'd like. it doesn't change what has happened time and time again.

What has happened is Wolverine taking punches from characters clearly not punching him with full strength. I accept that.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Thor being knocked out by a bullet is pretty crappy writing, though. And what about his durability? Sure, he can survive one blow because he can heal from it.

Or perhaps characters only hit Wolverine with full force when he flies? Hit A = Wolverine doesn't fly and suffers less injuries. Hit B = Wolverine flies. Common sense tells us that the Hit B was more powerful...now apply that sense here...

Hit A = Namor hits thing that weighs 500 pounds, moving it one feet backwards. Hit B = Namor hits thing that weights ten thousand tons and topples it, moving it about 100 feet backwards.

Again, common sense tells us that Hit B is far more powerful hit. Another thing that tells that are sound effects, artistic depiction, etc...

Now here are two pictures. Using the simple examples shown above, try to depict which hit had more force behind it?

Hit A OR Hit B?

What has happened is Wolverine taking punches from characters clearly not punching him with full strength. I accept that.

Ok .... but he can still take the punches, wether he flies or not. 🙂

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Ok .... but he can still take the punches, wether he flies or not. 🙂

Sure if Namor punches him one time and leaves him there to heal (Class 100 usually do, for some odd reason)...

Multiple times in short time?
http://img423.imageshack.us/img423/4242/wolverinehits88qa.gif
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3192/wolverinehits10qj.gif

❌

it's possible. it just doesn't make any more real sense than any other posited notion. that means what: that anytime someone ISN'T sent flying by a punch thrown by a cl100 that the cl100 was holding back? ANY character's weight (MOST characters weight . . .) is insignificant compared to what a cl100 can move or the force they can apply. they should spend all their time chasing after each other after every punch. it's not a matter of durability, but of mass. thor punches hulk he should end up miles away every time, unless hulk's holding back.

i don't know dc. just doesn't work for me. 🙁

Originally posted by leonidas
it's possible. it just doesn't make any more real sense than any other posited notion. that means what: that anytime someone ISN'T sent flying by a punch thrown by a cl100 that the cl100 was holding back? ANY character's weight (MOST characters weight . . .) is insignificant compared to what a cl100 can move or the force they can apply. they should spend all their time chasing after each other after every punch. it's not a matter of durability, but of mass. thor punches hulk he should end up miles away every time, unless hulk's holding back.

i don't know dc. just doesn't work for me. 🙁

Assuming that every punch from Namor does the same damage as Spider-Man or Daredevil in Versus fights doesn't work for me. ❌

Like I said, I can accept that they are not sent back. I can't accept that they do the same damage as a character hundreds of thousands times weaker.

Originally posted by leonidas
it's possible. it just doesn't make any more real sense than any other posited notion. that means what: that anytime someone ISN'T sent flying by a punch thrown by a cl100 that the cl100 was holding back? ANY character's weight (MOST characters weight . . .) is insignificant compared to what a cl100 can move or the force they can apply. they should spend all their time chasing after each other after every punch. it's not a matter of durability, but of mass. thor punches hulk he should end up miles away every time, unless hulk's holding back.

i don't know dc. just doesn't work for me. 🙁

Agreed .... D.C. mate, you've prooved me wrong with that pic. But in the majority of cases my original point suffices.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
But Regis was a Telepath, he pretty much used Midknighters power against him. Its like a the other chess player, hacking into that Chess computer. I don't really see it as Jobbing, just good writing. I don't mind it when a superior character beats one of my favourites, I certainly don't consider it Jobbing. 😕

Forgot he was a telepath. 👆

Originally posted by leonidas

yahman's right about one thing -- it's a comic book. the only evidence in that sens eis what we see consistently in comics. explain it however you'd like. it doesn't change what has happened time and time again.

exactly...

this is ridiculous trying to pass off that class 100's hold back on wolverine.. ESPECIALLY the hulk...

when hulk says "HULK SMASH LITTLE MAN!"
we can grasp a few facts from this, first, hulk isn't concerned with logan's well-being, and that hulk probably wants wolverine gone as soon as possible... but he still fails to KO logan on most occasions... if logan can cansistantly stand up from a beast like hulk intent on "smashing him" I can't see how anyone can argue that wolverine can't take full on class 100 punches....

similarly... wendigo doesn't hold back on wolverine
nor did sasquatch when he was possessed.

how we can continue to argue about wolverine's ability to take full on punches from class 100's is clearly beyond me at this point.. these consistant excuses that DC keeps bringing up are nothing more than that, excuses... wolverine's done it in the past against characters NOT HOLDING BACK, and he's done it on a (too) fairly consistant basis to pass it off as a fluke, and he'll probably do it again...

sorry DC namor showedd no indications of holding back.. like it or not.. you can come up with as many excuses as you'd like.. doesn't change the fact that namor picked up a weapon on both occasions to hit logan with.. pretty decent indication of NOT hold back IMO.. and it makes more sense that's consistant with FACTS than the crap you're spewing...

Originally posted by jinzin
exactly...

this is ridiculous trying to pass off that class 100's hold back on wolverine.. ESPECIALLY the hulk...

when hulk says "HULK SMASH LITTLE MAN!"
we can grasp a few facts from this, first, hulk isn't concerned with logan's well-being, and that hulk probably wants wolverine gone as soon as possible... but he still fails to KO logan on most occasions... if logan can cansistantly stand up from a beast like hulk intent on "smashing him" I can't see how anyone can argue that wolverine can't take full on class 100 punches....

similarly... wendigo doesn't hold back on wolverine
nor did sasquatch when he was possessed.

how we can continue to argue about wolverine's ability to take full on punches from class 100's is clearly beyond me at this point.. these consistant excuses that DC keeps bringing up are nothing more than that, excuses... wolverine's done it in the past against characters NOT HOLDING BACK, and he's done it on a (too) fairly consistant basis to pass it off as a fluke, and he'll probably do it again...

sorry DC namor showedd no indications of holding back.. like it or not.. you can come up with as many excuses as you'd like.. doesn't change the fact that namor picked up a weapon on both occasions to hit logan with.. pretty decent indication of NOT hold back IMO.. and it makes more sense that's consistant with FACTS than the crap you're spewing...

Never said that he can't take them...🤨

I have always said that he can take them AS LONG AS HE'S GIVEN TIME TO HEAL. If not, his healing factor is overloaded and he goes down.

And I guess that hovering peacefully in the air, not even getting in real fisticuffs in first three pages or trying to tie someone with a rope is Namor fighting fully powered to you. That's okay. You have funny way of seeing things, I've noticed it.

But Namor holds back on weaker people. That is a fact.

Iron Man = His equal = Not holding back:

Wolverine = Far from his equal = Holding back:

Want to see more of this kind of comparisions?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Never said that he can't take them...🤨

I have always said that he can take them AS LONG AS HE'S GIVEN TIME TO HEAL. If not, his healing factor is overloaded and he goes down.

And I guess that hovering peacefully in the air, not even getting in real fisticuffs in first three pages or trying to tie someone with a rope is Namor fighting fully powered to you. That's okay. You have funny way of seeing things, I've noticed it.

But Namor holds back on weaker people. That is a fact.

you implied it by your argument for wolverine's not flying equating to characters holding back on him.. if you hadn't implied such this thread wouldn't have entered a discussion like this.

and namor hovering really doesn't mean a whole lot.. he thought wolverine was down.. wolverine "looked" down.. problem was.. wolverine wasn't down.. ❌
as for the rope? tie him up? I don't see that... 🤨 I see namor trying to throw wolverine who's on the other end.. and it's a vine not a rope...

looks like you're the one with a funny way of seeing things.. but whateva...

again your examples are kinda bunk...

doomsday and superman don't send eathother accross continents when they were brawling blow for blow in metropolis.. the must have been holding back..

savage hulk and onslaught weren't sending eachother miles into the air with their blows.. man those guys were taking it easy... pffft..

but dc, i could easily post a bunch of scans where namor is fighting someone very close to his equal or better where they do NOT go flying. not sure what the comparison really proves as there are many many examples that might contradict it. 🙁

I don't care how many examples he has.. the fact that two of the most widely significant hit for hit brawls had 4 of both dc and marvel's physically strongest characters NOT flying miles kinda sends his whole argument into the toilet as far as I'm concerned.

Originally posted by jinzin
you implied it by your argument for wolverine's not flying equating to characters holding back on him.. if you hadn't implied such this thread wouldn't have entered a discussion like this.

Flying isn't the only thing. The concussion force isn't nearly as hard as some punches Namor has made. Example:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30815313047.gif&s=x11

He's holding back on Wolverine.

Originally posted by jinzin
and namor hovering really doesn't mean a whole lot.. he thought wolverine was down.. wolverine "looked" down.. problem was.. wolverine wasn't down.. ❌

Hovering AND TALKING TO HIM PEACEFULLY, AFTER he had risen up, AND AFTER he had KILLED HIS ADVISOR.

You seem to miss lot of parts. Also there is the whole struggling with the girder thing ("unhh!"😉

Originally posted by jinzin
as for the rope? tie him up? I don't see that... 🤨 I see namor trying to throw wolverine who's on the other end.. and it's a vine not a rope...

Yeah, he's trying to throw him away, my mistake. But, for some reason, he's simply trying to keep Wolverine away for the first three pages, evading him...moving him with rope...going defensive...oh yeah, what's the another word for that? Right. Holding back.

Originally posted by jinzin
looks like you're the one with a funny way of seeing things.. but whateva...

❌

Originally posted by jinzin
I don't care how many examples he has.. the fact that two of the most widely significant hit for hit brawls had 4 of both dc and marvel's physically strongest characters NOT flying miles kinda sends his whole argument into the toilet as far as I'm concerned.

😬

Originally posted by leonidas
but dc, i could easily post a bunch of scans where namor is fighting someone very close to his equal or better where they do NOT go flying. not sure what the comparison really proves as there are many many examples that might contradict it. 🙁

And like I have said for the rest few pages, flying is not the only thing that can show the force of the punch. 🙁

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And like I have said for the rest few pages, flying is not the only thing that can show the force of the punch. 🙁

but your other factors are not always present either. but for clarity, what ARE the other factors that show the force of a punch? i know you mentioned concussive force (manifest as shockwaves, perhaps?) and maybe collateral damage. is there something i missed?