How the hill is wolverine going to defeat Midnighter..... MD is faster stronger and waayyyy smarter the logan.. logan best weapon is his healing facter that it....... what the is this bullshit ablout Namor beating Apollo that.... does any one know how freaking powerful the AU are shit read a comic first.... ok now that.
Originally posted by supremthor
The Midnighter automatically analyses every situation he is in as a combat scenario, his computerised senses instantaneously checking out multiple battle strategies until he has located the best one to win the fight at minimal effort.
enhanced sense, such as x-ray and thermal vision, super-strength and reflexes. Cybernetic augmentation allows him to calculate over a million possible combat scenarios in a second. Super-enhanced immune system.To aid him in the actual fight he has heightened reflexes and strength, and a superb knowledge of most forms of combat.
In addition Midnighter has superhuman durability, and is designed with a number of redundant systems (it was recently revealed that he even has a "back-up heart"😉.
hey, what's this ^%$# doing in a wolverine v namor thread??
😆
This is.... Retarded.
If everytime a Cl100 character hit someone they should go flying evne guys like Hulk and thing who only way a fraction of the other's max lifitn strnetgh. They don't it doesnt meant heir holding back it would just be a pain in the ass to draw btu because it happens to wolverine he is holding back?
This is crazy.
Originally posted by jinzin
so you've never picked up any awkward boxes that weren't heavy? 🤨and he wasn't struggling on either account.. that's entirely speculation based on one inditinguishable noise and it can't be proven either way... when namor started swing he wasn't having issues on either occasion so.... i fail to see how he "struggled" but that's just me...
He was struggling on the second one "uhhn". He's lifted heavier and more awkward things without having any troubles before. Here. Few examples:
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/4655/hulk1998p266qo.jpg
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2738/namorvsarmy9og.gif
http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/7325/namorfeat393lr.gif
The whole second fight portrayed Namor as a weak pacifist idiot, who didn't seem to be bothered at all by a death of Atlantean (A fact that you can't put aside) who was hurt by a simple claw slash (when he's taken three days of torture while dehydrated without uttering a word, fought with a gaping hole in his chest and joking on the same time etc.) who couldn't dodge Logan's claw slash, despite dodging faster, more difficult and harder things in past (actually he was just standing there as Wolverine was running towards him, more bad writing).
And, since he was hovering and talking peacefully to Wolverine AFTER he had killed his friend and advisor, and not being a flurry of fists (like he has done about every enemy who has insulted him or done something else...Wolverine did MUCCCCCHHH worse then that) he was holding back.
The whole fight was so badly written that it makes grown men cry.
As for your ridicolous point that somehow grabbing an object means that you can't defeat an opponent with your fists...
I guess that must mean that Namor can't beat a bunch of tanks without grabbing an object and hitting them:
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/663/namorspeedfeat440mz.gif
Or defeat an normal Atlantean warlord:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5035/namorspeedfeat574pj.gif
Or bunch of his palace guards:
http://i1.tinypic.com/mj4n5t.gif
Or few ships:
http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/2333/namorfeat1056gr.gif
Or Captain America:
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor31vu.gif
Or Daredevil And Spider-Man:
http://img327.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorddspidey71tx.gif
I guess he possibly couldn't defeat this dude here either:
http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/9951/turninggun8tc.gif
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He was struggling on the second one "uhhn". He's lifted heavier and more awkward things without having any troubles before. Here. Few examples:
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/4655/hulk1998p266qo.jpg
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2738/namorvsarmy9og.gif
http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/7325/namorfeat393lr.gif[/url]
i don't think something as ambiguous as uhhn is a sign of struggling.. again when he swung the thing he had no problems whatsoever....
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
The whole second fight portrayed Namor as a weak pacifist idiot, who didn't seem to be bothered at all by a death of Atlantean (A fact that you can't put aside) who was hurt by a simple claw slash (when he's taken three days of torture while dehydrated without uttering a word, fought with a gaping hole in his chest and joking on the same time etc.) who couldn't dodge Logan's claw slash, despite dodging faster, more difficult and harder things in past (actually he was just standing there as Wolverine was running towards him, more bad writing).[/url]
he seemed pretty bothered when he was wailing away at wolverie for killing the guy he wasn't "peaceful" until he took the fight outside..
this inclination that namor doesn't feel pain with such things is almost lahfable.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And, since he was hovering and talking peacefully to Wolverine AFTER he had killed his friend and advisor, and not being a flurry of fists (like he has done about every enemy who has insulted him or done something else...Wolverine did MUCCCCCHHH worse then that) he was holding back.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
As for your ridicolous point that somehow grabbing an object means that you can't defeat an opponent with your fists...I guess that must mean that Namor can't beat a bunch of tanks without grabbing an object and hitting them:
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/663/namorspeedfeat440mz.gifOr defeat an normal Atlantean warlord:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5035/namorspeedfeat574pj.gifOr bunch of his palace guards:
http://i1.tinypic.com/mj4n5t.gifOr few ships:
http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/2333/namorfeat1056gr.gifOr Captain America:
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor31vu.gifOr Daredevil And Spider-Man:
http://img327.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorddspidey71tx.gifI guess he possibly couldn't defeat this dude here either:
http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/9951/turninggun8tc.gif
my point was that namor had to grab a weapon to fight wolverine.. not "an opponent" like it's a standard for namor... but wolverine.. cause that is a standard where wolvie's involved.. both time's namor tried to go toe to toe he got cut up... in any case you can't have your cake and eat it too in this situation.. you can either admit that he was fored to grabbing a weapon cause h2h wasn't working or you can admit he wasn't holding back cause in a majority of this pics when he's grabbing a weapon like that he's certainly not holding back.... you just killed your ridiculous argument by yourself... you didn't even need my help... lol...
the REAL points are simply this...
namor has never PROVEN he can take wolverine straight up in h2h.
namor has never said he was holding back on wolverine.
things namor's done in fights with wolverine imply (maybe not prove) he wasn't holding back.
arguments for characters sent flying are kind of moot where comics are concerned.
Originally posted by Warmonger
This is.... Retarded.If everytime a Cl100 character hit someone they should go flying evne guys like Hulk and thing who only way a fraction of the other's max lifitn strnetgh. They don't it doesnt meant heir holding back it would just be a pain in the ass to draw btu because it happens to wolverine he is holding back?
This is crazy.
I have said this a million times but no one listens
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I have said this a million times but no one listens
exactly.... this is why i don't think DC excuse for the battles is a good one....
again.. was supes holding back on dd in metropolis? no
was hulk holding back against onslaught? HELL no...
but they weren't sent flying.... they must have been taking it easy...
Originally posted by jinzin
exactly.... this is why i don't think DC excuse for the battles is a good one....again.. was supes holding back on dd in metropolis? no
was hulk holding back against onslaught? HELL no...
but they weren't sent flying.... they must have been taking it easy...
Exactly. Its not like it is a hard concept to grasp... is it?
Originally posted by jinzin
exactly.... this is why i don't think DC excuse for the battles is a good one....again.. was supes holding back on dd in metropolis? no
was hulk holding back against onslaught? HELL no...
but they weren't sent flying.... they must have been taking it easy...
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
The flying thing has been put aside. I admitted that some things must be sacrificed for the sake of the story.
Originally posted by jinzin
i don't think something as ambiguous as uhhn is a sign of struggling.. again when he swung the thing he had no problems whatsoever....
"Uhhn" is something you say when you are struggling. And seeing as a creature that is about hundred thousand times weaker then him was nearly struggling him to death prior the fight and he vouldn't get out of the hold, (he even held his throat after that) he was portrayed as weak idiot for the whole comic. Especially when U.S.Agent was able to hurt Wolverine more then him...
Originally posted by jinzin
he seemed pretty bothered when he was wailing away at wolverie for killing the guy he wasn't "peaceful" until he took the fight outside..
this inclination that namor doesn't feel pain with such things is almost lahfable.
"You murdered my advisor." - In calm face.
That sounds something that a angry Namor would say? 😂
Namor's characterization in that comic was crap, accept it.
Originally posted by jinzin
but he picked up a bat to hit wolverine to hold back? 😕
whether you like it or not DC there's no ratinal explanation that you can give to connect that fact with your opinion that he was holding back... nothing was even stated to suggest such, all you've got ae your opinions you can't proe it one way or the other...
Alternate method of attack... On the first fight, he picked up the bat AFTER three pages of peaceful dodging and defending, and I said that during that point, he finally got tired of defending. On the second fight, he was shown to be peaceful the whole time.
And seeing as he was talking peacefully AFTER and PRIOR to batting Logan away with that girder, it looked like that was just an attempt to hit Wolverine back to his senses/take him away from the rest of the group...
Originally posted by jinzin
my point was that namor had to grab a weapon to fight wolverine.. not "an opponent" like it's a standard for namor... but wolverine.. cause that is a standard where wolvie's involved.. both time's namor tried to go toe to toe he got cut up... in any case you can't have your cake and eat it too in this situation.. you can either admit that he was fored to grabbing a weapon cause h2h wasn't working or you can admit he wasn't holding back cause in a majority of this pics when he's grabbing a weapon like that he's certainly not holding back.... you just killed your ridiculous argument by yourself... you didn't even need my help... lol...
And every time he has gone h2h with Wolverine, he has fought
peacefully.
Originally posted by jinzin
the REAL points are simply this...namor has never PROVEN he can take wolverine straight up in h2h.
namor has never said he was holding back on wolverine.
things namor's done in fights with wolverine imply (maybe not prove) he wasn't holding back.
arguments for characters sent flying are kind of moot where comics are concerned.
Real points are this. Namor has never fought Wolverine h2h without holding back. In first fight, he wasn't on agressive stance except on the last page. For the first three pages, he was clearly holding back:
Never really attacking Wolverine agressively. Only keeping Wolverine away. Never really punching him (except when he was forced to on the first page), only blocking and dodging.
On the second fight, he was fighting and talking peacefully every time when going h2h with Wolverine.
Namor has also never really utilized his speed/skills against fights with Wolverine either.
So, like I have said before, all Wolverine has shown is to be able to slash Namor who is fighting peacefully/defensively.
Just the fact that his punches were not doing any mmore damage then Daredevil/Captain America/Mr. X/Spider-Man etc. should be enough to show that he was holding back. Majorly.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
"Uhhn" is something you say when you are struggling. And seeing as a creature that is about hundred thousand times weaker then him was nearly struggling him to death prior the fight and he vouldn't get out of the hold, (he even held his throat after that) he was portrayed as weak idiot for the whole comic. Especially when U.S.Agent was able to hurt Wolverine more then him...
and uhhn is also comparible to a noise made when you're about to swing or swinging a baseball bat.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
"You murdered my advisor." - In calm face.
That sounds something that a angry Namor would say? 😂[/B][/QUOTE]
he said it sternly; justification for the punches he was landing on wolverine... again.. not really peaceful...
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Namor's characterization in that comic was crap, accept it.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Alternate method of attack... On the first fight, he picked up the bat AFTER three pages of peaceful dodging and defending,
again.. that wasn't peaceful....
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
and I said that during that point, he finally got tired of defending. On the second fight, he was shown to be peaceful the whole time.
Originally posted by DarkCrawleror an attempt to hit logan without getting scewred up close..... like what happened when he tried to fight wolverine up close.
And seeing as he was talking peacefully AFTER and PRIOR to batting Logan away with that girder, it looked like that was just an attempt to hit Wolverine back to his senses/take him away from the rest of the group...
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And every time he has gone h2h with Wolverine, he has fought
peacefully. [B]
but peacful? ❌
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B]Real points are this. Namor has never fought Wolverine h2h without holding back. [B]
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B]In first fight, he wasn't on agressive stance except on the last page. [B]
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B] For the first three pages, he was clearly holding back:[B]
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B] Never really attacking Wolverine agressively. Only keeping Wolverine away. Never really punching him (except when he was forced to on the first page), only blocking and dodging. [B]
he caught a glancing blow in the first fight and had to resort to rolling with it jumping to wolverine's back as wolverine lunged at him...
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B]On the second fight, he was fighting and talking peacefully every time when going h2h with Wolverine. [B]
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B]Namor has also never really utilized his speed/skills against fights with Wolverine either.
Originally posted by DarkCrawlersorry not when the same effect takes place in brick fights.. everyone else understand this point about comics why can't you? and you just said that you were past the sent flying thing.. pffft.. guess not.
So, like I have said before, all Wolverine has shown is to be able to slash Namor who is fighting peacefully/defensively.
Just the fact that his punches were not doing any mmore damage then Daredevil/Captain America/Mr. X/Spider-Man etc. should be enough to show that he was holding back. Majorly.
Disregarding everything that I haven't read and with no real point I say this: Midnighter can behead people with a metal pole. Breaking through muscle, ligments, and bone with a blunt, though fairly slim, maybe an inch or so thick, light pole is pretty fly considering how hard it would be to cut a dude's head clean off with a sword.
Originally posted by jinzin
us agent didn't hurt him either.. but he did send him flying which was shaky after the aformentioned event.
U.S.A's punches were still effecting him more.
Originally posted by jinzin
and uhhn is also comparible to a noise made when you're about to swing or swinging a baseball bat.
Except that Namor swinging something that is 0.0005% of the weight he can lift isn't comparable to someone swinging baseball bat. And like I said before, he has swinged more difficult items without saying anything.
Originally posted by jinzin
he said it sternly; justification for the punches he was landing on wolverine... again.. not really peaceful...
Yeah, it's peaceful compared to other Namor portrayals. Especially when his advisor was murdered.
Originally posted by jinzin
maybe when you can accept the fact that you think namor was holding back is nothing more than bias opinion...
Not really, when I have proof of that.
Originally posted by jinzin
again.. that wasn't peaceful....
If Namor punches something one time (and even that was forced), and the rest is dodging/blocking/defending, it's peaceful.
Originally posted by jinzin
except with the punching logan and batting him away...
"You killed my advisor." "Why are you bothering us, X-Man?"
That is peaceful Namor.
Originally posted by jinzin
or an attempt to hit logan without getting scewred up close..... like what happened when he tried to fight wolverine up close.
More like what happened when he tried to fight Wolverine up close while holding back.
Originally posted by jinzin
enraged? no...but peacful? ❌
Defending and talking peacefully is peaceful, I am afraid.
Originally posted by jinzin
opinion.
Originally posted by jinzin
he got jumped and was put on the defensive throughout.. it couldn't really be helped...
Despite fighting more agressively in other times after he's been jumped? Actually, most of his times with other superheroes have been fights when he has been jumped...
Originally posted by jinzin
❌
✅
Originally posted by jinzin
because when he tries to fight agressively up close he gets cut up... how hard is that to understand?
He wouldn't if he wasn't holding back or using his full speed...is that so hard to understand?
Originally posted by jinzin
he was fighting peacfully.... with a weapon.. 🙄
Everytime he fought without one, he was peaceful.
Originally posted by jinzin
if you're talking about flight I've already admitted to that... but in h2h? he's tried.. he's been cut doing so...
Namor has never fought Wolverine with full speed. Namor with speed is something like this:
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/1905/namorspeedfeat339wr.gif
And he didn't even attempt to do something like that in their fight. Namor could easily duplicate this:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3192/wolverinehits10qj.gif
Originally posted by jinzin
sorry not when the same effect takes place in brick fights.. everyone else understand this point about comics why can't you? and you just said that you were past the sent flying thing.. pffft.. guess not.
Damage = sent flying?
And you only have one or two examples where someone of Namor's class punches him and nothing happens. And even those are during the time when he was Death...
99% the time Class 100 punches don't affect him like someone from Class 1 would. Namor was holding back.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Except that Namor swinging something that is 0.0005% of the weight he can lift isn't comparable to someone swinging baseball bat. And like I said before, he has swinged more difficult items without saying anything.
depends on how hard the guys swinging
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yeah, it's peaceful compared to other Namor portrayals. Especially when his advisor was murdered.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Not really, when I have proof of that..
nope... still just opinion..
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerthey sized eachother up and then went at it.. namor fought smarter than he did the second time around.. not peaceful...
If Namor punches something one time (and even that was forced), and the rest is dodging/blocking/defending, it's peaceful.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
"You killed my advisor." .
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
"Why are you bothering us, X-Man?".
Originally posted by DarkCrawler❌
That is peaceful Namor.
Originally posted by DarkCrawlermore like, still just opinion...
More like what happened when he tried to fight Wolverine up close while holding back.
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerand wailing on a guy and batting him with a steel girder is not...
Defending and talking peacefully is peaceful, I am afraid.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Despite fighting more agressively in other times after he's been jumped? Actually, most of his times with other superheroes have been fights when he has been jumped....
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
✅
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He wouldn't if he wasn't holding back or using his full speed...is that so hard to understand?
cause he would.... and has.. and to say that he wouldn't if he wasn't holding back implies that he was holding back which can't be proven anyways since he contradicted that idea in both fights...
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Everytime he fought without one, he was peaceful.
not peaceful.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Namor has never fought Wolverine with full speed. Namor with speed is something like this:
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/1905/namorspeedfeat339wr.gif
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And he didn't even attempt to do something like that in their fight. Namor could easily duplicate this:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3192/wolverinehits10qj.gif
pffft.. saw that one coming.. you favorite anti-wolvie pic apparently...
dude.. don't know if you noticed but WONDERMAN could hardly replicate that pic.. oh wait.. unless he was attacking wolverine from behind.. like oh I dunno... WHAT HAPPENED...
and what is that even supposed to prove?
it doesn't demonstrate a successful KO on wolverine
nor does it demonstrate a successful defeat of him either..
one panal after that attack was over wolverine was STILL on his feet confident that he could have taken "ol' simon" down...
unless namor surprise attacks wolverine from behind.. no he can't "easily duplicate" that.. 🙄
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Damage = sent flying?And you only have one or two examples where someone of Namor's class punches him and nothing happens. And even those are during the time when he was Death...
okay here we go again.. being death DIDN'T give wolverine physical enhancements.. assuming that he had physcial enhancements in terms of durability or strength.. who took them away? until you or ANYONE for that matter can answer those questions you need to stop writing off "death's feats as if they hold no consequence...
and if you're not talking about being sent flying what ARE you talking about?
bodily harm? surely wolverine has proven ENOUGH times through feats he's well within the capabilities of avoiding most long term harm from class 80 characters and up.
Originally posted by DarkCrawlernope. still just an opinion.. you can't nor can you ever PROVE he was holding back.. all you can do is suggest it... unless otherwise reconted...
99% the time Class 100 punches don't affect him like someone from Class 1 would. Namor was holding back.
Originally posted by jinzin
depends on how hard the guys swinging
Not if he has swung more heavier items before without uttering a word...
Originally posted by jinzin
I'm getting the feeling peacful isn't the right word you're looking for then.
He's fighting peaceful compared to what he is supposed to act. And Namor isn't supposed to say anything on calm face, ESPECIALLY to the guy who murdered his advisor. Bad writing.
Originally posted by jinzin
nope... still just opinion..
With facts supporting it...
Originally posted by jinzin
they sized eachother up and then went at it.. namor fought smarter than he did the second time around.. not peaceful...
Without even trying to punch him...?
Originally posted by jinzin
as his wailing on him
With less strength and fury then he should in situation like that...
Originally posted by jinzin
after he nearly KOs him by batting him away...
And being peaceful right after that...
Originally posted by jinzin
❌
I know a bit better then what Namor is supposed to be when he is angry...
Originally posted by jinzin
more like, still just opinion...
Nah, not really.
Originally posted by jinzin
and wailing on a guy and batting him with a steel girder is not...
Wailing on guy while holding back is...and every time he actually fought angrily, it worked...
Originally posted by jinzin
now you're just arguing against logic...
how is he supposed to fight aggressively when he's being jumped? he fought back what more could you ask from him? again.. fighting smart doesn't equate to fighting peacefully...
He's supposed to fight agressively like this...
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/3918/namorvscapm18xg.gif
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/7919/namorvscapm23tk.gif
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/8391/namorvscapm30ks.gif
Or maybe like this...
http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorddspidey16pb.gif
You know, actually trying to put his enemy down instead of doing nothing else then dodging and blocking...
Originally posted by jinzin
❌
see this is why i didn't want to get into this with you.. there's no way i can convince you about my interpretation of the event through what happnened.. and there's no way you can convince me your opinion as more weight than facts...
Originally posted by jinzin
cause he would.... and has.. and to say that he wouldn't if he wasn't holding back implies that he was holding back which can't be proven anyways since he contradicted that idea in both fights...
On the first fight he was only letting loose on last page. On second fight, he was written as a peaceful moron who talks quietly to someone who kills his advisors...
Originally posted by jinzin
yet in both fights that we're talking about he grabbed one.. so....not peaceful.
Peaceful every time he was in hand to hand. Hell, on the second one he didn't even attack Wolverine again after batting him away, instead, he talked peacefully...
Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine has never fought namor with full speed. like he used on giest...
it's hardly a valid point.. they both have comparable feats of speed in h2h.. namor's aren't faster you're just assuming they are.. like everything else..
Call me back when Wolverine does a feat equal to making a sculpture in a second, keeping up with objects whose SLOWEST speed is Mach 32, moving his hands with multiple mach speeds or dodging lasers while being weakened to the point of fainting and I'll say that they are comparable....
Originally posted by jinzin
pffft.. saw that one coming.. you favorite anti-wolvie pic apparently...dude.. don't know if you noticed but WONDERMAN could hardly replicate that pic.. oh wait.. unless he was attacking wolverine from behind.. like oh I dunno... WHAT HAPPENED...
and what is that even supposed to prove?
it doesn't demonstrate a successful KO on wolverine
nor does it demonstrate a successful defeat of him either..
one panal after that attack was over wolverine was STILL on his feet confident that he could have taken "ol' simon" down...unless namor surprise attacks wolverine from behind.. no he can't "easily duplicate" that.. 🙄
Oh, that's not my only picture...how about one where Wolverine admits that his healing factor can't keep up with Hulk wailing on him?
http://img423.imageshack.us/img423/4242/wolverinehits88qa.gif
Originally posted by jinzin
🤨okay here we go again.. being death DIDN'T give wolverine physical enhancements.. assuming that he had physcial enhancements in terms of durability or strength.. who took them away? until you or ANYONE for that matter can answer those questions you need to stop writing off "death's feats as if they hold no consequence...
Seeing as the Death picture is the only one where he does something like that, I think it is pretty much clear that the it gave him some sort of advantage...it could have been in the armor too.
Originally posted by jinzin
and if you're not talking about being sent flying what ARE you talking about? bodily harm? surely wolverine has proven ENOUGH times through feats he's well within the capabilities of avoiding most long term harm from class 80 characters and up.
Sure, if they punch him few times. Multiple times? No...
Originally posted by jinzin
nope. still just an opinion.. you can't nor can you ever PROVE he was holding back.. all you can do is suggest it... unless otherwise reconted...
I have already proven it. Namor is known for holding back against weaker characters. Namor's (and other Class 100 punches) are known to hurt character's and things more then that. Namor fights more agressively when he is not holding back. You just fail to see the facts and thing that those two fights are not accurate depiction of Namor over 60+ years of other feats...
