Solid Snake VS Nightwing

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Labels like superhuman/enhancedhuman/peakhuman are just labels. quote] I know right?

So since Flash has Speed and Nightywing has speed... Look at that they both have speed!

They must bee the same speed cause I spelled it the same, used the same language... How is their speed different?

[QUOTE=6566870]Originally posted by srankmissingnin
They are helpful to a certain degree but they are just guidelines.

Nightwing has speed and Flash has speed. therfore they are equal.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
This is the same as the typical arguement that Spider-man fans use. " Character X, could never hit Spider-man because Spider-man has superhuman speed while Character X is only peak human."

How is Fox faster?

That's what Jinzin calls following trains of thought. but I guess to follow my arguments you'd have to read them right?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The arguement holds no weight, what does hold weight are the abilitiesquote] pssh.

Like Speed and Speed?

They have the same speed so obviously Nigthwing could do flashes feats if he wanted to.

[QUOTE=6566870]Originally posted by srankmissingnin
and feats the character has under their belt and when they are onpar with characters with superhuman speed how can it even be argued?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
[B]You aren't even basing your arguement on what Gray Fox has done but what you imagine he could do...

I tend to take the companies word over fanboys words... certainly you know that from the spiderman vs wolverine threads right?

Marvel said this and this, but spiderman fans know better?

Remeber that?

Obviously not since you don't read my arguments.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
and the idea you have is far above what he has shown capable of.

What kind of arguement is that.

Because its what the company says he's capable of. They say he knows virtually all forms of com- oh shit.

Because the company says he's enhanced I take their word for it. 😛

I tend to take the games/comics itself over what the company would say...just look at Marvel Handbooks. 😘

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Flash has speed that prove he is faster, Gray Fox doesn't.

You think you can take him or something?

😆

I think you missed some words up in your post there SRank.

Quicksilver has speed so obviously he's as fast as the flash.

Hell Spiderman has speed so obviously he's as fast as the flash.

🙄

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I tend to take the games/comics itself over what the company would say...just look at Marvel Handbooks. 😘

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I tend to take the games/comics itself over what the company would say...just look at Marvel Handbooks. 😘

Originally posted by Creshosk
Except in cases where you don't like what's going on then you just brush it aside calling it PIS even if there is no indication that that shouldn't have happened... 😖hifty:

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
They both have speed, but Flash's is greater...because he has proved it through feats. Gray Fox hasn't proved that he can dodge anything Nightwing couldn't...

Woah didn't I say thsat before?

Are any of you reading what I'm saying?

Originally posted by Creshosk
so until there is a need to use the power it doesn't exist... so there is no such thing as holding back. the power just doesn't exist.

Woah didn't I say thsat before?

Are any of you reading what I'm saying?

So we should just believe that Gray Fox is faster...even though he has nothing to show that...?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Are you saying grey fox doesn't have speed?

You think you can take him or something?

😆

I think you missed some words up in your post there SRank.

Quicksilver has speed so obviously he's as fast as the flash.

Hell Spiderman has speed so obviously he's as fast as the flash.

🙄

Yeah it is supposed to say "speed feats"

Seriously you are purposely being obtuse Cresh. This whole "Flash has speed and Nightwing has speed so they both must be equal" thing you keep spouting out... did you really not understand my point? You can't base you're entire arguement on a label that was only applied in the first place as a guideline for the writers even if both characters are from the same company and if they are from two different universes it is an even bigger no-no.

Lets take Snake-eyes for example shall we? He is peak-human in G.I. Joe... so logically Spider-man would be faster then him since he is superhuman the right? In order for this logic (you're logic is it not?) to work we then have to ignore that Snake-eyes has moved so fast that air friction has caused his his sword to burst into flames, he has gone through short battles moving so fast that falling objects haven't even began to be effected by gravity by the time the battle is over. Snake-eyes has speed feats that put him above Spider-man in speed... but the comic say he is peak-huma, while Spider-man is superhuman. Not an effective argument.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Well, if it contradicts majority, it's usually not very well written... 😉

When they fight what would be well written?

I left it fairly open for interpriation... like Wolverine is notorious for the majority of his fights versus bricks Wolverine stays concious.

And Hulk has a majority of beating alot of things.

But some people don't feel its well written if Wolverine stays concious if hulk hits him regardless of winning or losing.

So wolverine's majority of staying concious vs bricks
versus
Hulks majority of smashing stuff

What's well written?

This is just an example of "oxymoron" two seemingly contradictory things joined into one complete thought is posible even if it doesn't seem that way.

sooo...

Have I made my point about the enhanced/peak/superhuman labels?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
So we should just believe that Gray Fox is faster...even though he has nothing to show that...?

Nightwing is as fast as Flash without the labels...

But with the labels you cantell who's faster.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yeah it is supposed to say "speed feats"

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Seriously you are purposely being obtuse Cresh.

in this case its the "Those are meaning less labels" argument.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
This whole "Flash has speed and Nightwing has speed so they both must be equal" thing you keep spouting out... did you really not understand my point? You can't base you're entire arguement on a label that was only applied in the first place as a guideline for the writers even if both characters are from the same company and if they are from two different universes it is an even bigger no-no.

And you know what's a hoot when a character is capable of more because of these guidelines, and just doesn't do it?

Appearentlky by your logic that means they cant do it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Lets take Snake-eyes for example shall we? He is peak-human in G.I. Joe... so logically Spider-man would be faster then him since he is superhuman the right? In order for this logic (you're logic is it not?) to work we then have to ignore that Snake-eyes has moved so fast that air friction has caused his his sword to burst into flames, he has gone through short battles moving so fast that falling objects haven't even began to be effected by gravity by the time the battle is over. Snake-eyes has speed feats that put him above Spider-man in speed... but the comic say he is peak-huma, while Spider-man is superhuman. Not an effective argument.

And Wolverine is also Peak human.

Oh so I guess there's that whole factor of what you think is faster cause hey, snake eye's speed feats are cooler aren't they?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
So we should just believe that Gray Fox is faster...even though he has nothing to show that...?

But then how do we know he has that power if he hasn't used it?

Gee, the company says he does... but we can't trust the companies on anything, cause even if this is wrong and this is wrong. Nothing else in it can be right... right?

For example Namor is only called namor because thats what he's called in the comics because the nasty old handbook calls him Namor as well.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So if a character has a mojority of wins against this and this and this... aND another character has a majority of wins against this and this and this...

When they fight what would be well written?

I left it fairly open for interpriation... like Wolverine is notorious for the majority of his fights versus bricks Wolverine stays concious.

And Hulk has a majority of beating alot of things.

But some people don't feel its well written if Wolverine stays concious if hulk hits him regardless of winning or losing.

So wolverine's majority of staying concious vs bricks
versus
Hulks majority of smashing stuff

What's well written?

This is just an example of "oxymoron" two seemingly contradictory things joined into one complete thought is posible even if it doesn't seem that way.

Well, if Wolverine has stayed councious majority of time when Hulk has punched him, I don't consider it bad writing if he does so...

I'd consider it bad writing if he repeately punched him and nothing would happen. But I think Wolverine has showed that he can survive a Class 100 punch concious.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Cause power doesn't exist until its needed right?

But then how do we know he has that power if he hasn't used it?

Gee, the company says he does... but we can't trust the companies on anything, cause even if this is wrong and this is wrong. Nothing else in it can be right... right?

For example Namor is only called namor because thats what he's called in the comics because the nasty old handbook calls him Namor as well.

The company says that he is enchanced peak human...but how do we know what class is enchanced peak human in speed? Because Cap is supposed to be peak human and he has thrown his shield fast enough to catch a missile among other things... 😕

We can't say that he is faster then Nightwing because Konami states that he is enchanced peak human. Because obivously, Konami and DC don't have the same definition of peak human...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
The company says that he is enchanced peak human...but how do we know what class is enchanced peak human in speed? Because Cap is supposed to be peak human and he has thrown his shield fast enough to catch a missile among other things... 😕

We can't say that he is faster then Nightwing because Konami states that he is enchanced peak human. Because obivously, Konami and DC don't have the same definition of peak human...

Originally posted by Creshosk
Well without labels who knows?

Nightwing is as fast as Flash without the labels...

But with the labels you cantell who's faster.

I figured.

Yeah that tends to be when I use a person's arguments against them.

in this case its the "Those are meaning less labels" argument.

*sigh*

I have no idea why you can't grasp this concept. I mean it isn't incredibly intricate of complicated.

How do we know Flash is faster then Nightwing, Cresh? Because he has on several occasions moved at multiples of c. Flash isn't faster then Nightwing because he has been labeled with having superhuman speed, he is faster because he has proved he is faster every appearance he has.

Now why is Gray Fox faster? Not because he has shown to be faster. No he is apparently faster because he has the label of superhuman, while Nightwing is labeled peak human.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yeah that tends to be when I use a person's arguments against them.

in this case its the "Those are meaning less labels" argument.

... you aren't doing a very good job.

Originally posted by Creshosk
And you know what's a hoot when a character is capable of more because of these guidelines, and just doesn't do it?

Appearentlky by your logic that means they cant do it.

Maybe, maybe Gray Fox has higher capabilities then what he has shown but who gets to decided what they are capable of Cresh? Is it you? You might has well site fan-fiction as proof Cresh because it is just as credible.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I don't see why not, Wovlerine has done the same things. And Wolverine is not faster than Spiderman.

And Wolverine is also Peak human.

Oh so I guess there's that whole factor of what you think is faster cause hey, snake eye's speed feats are cooler aren't they?

Wolverine has never done any of those and neither has Spider-man. They are ridiculous speed feats. They aren't better because they are cooler, they are better because in terms of speed they are faster.

Originally posted by Ritoshi
Throw a baseball then throw paper..which one goes further and faster ?

Depends on who's the guy who throws them... 😉

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
We can't say that he is faster then Nightwing because Konami states that he is enchanced peak human. Because obivously, Konami and DC don't have the same definition of peak human...

Exactly!

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
The company says that he is enchanced peak human...but how do we know what class is enchanced peak human in speed? Because Cap is supposed to be peak human and he has thrown his shield fast enough to catch a missile among other things... 😕

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
We can't say that he is faster then Nightwing because Konami states that he is enchanced peak human. Because obivously, Konami and DC don't have the same definition of peak human...

Even if one is Japanese(who most of the time have normal human characters doing outragous things anyway) and the other American.

Can you verifyu that they have different definitions? Or shall we go with definitions readily available to us?

I mean Superman is a great example of having the power even if he doesn't use it... super friction... he has eye beams and he uses super friction? so when he's using the super friction he doesn't have the eye beams? or when he uses the eye beams he can't move at super speeds to create friction?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Depends on who's the guy who throws them... 😉

Go pick up a baseball and throw it then go pic up a bowling ball and throw it. You are the same eprson and yet the base ball went much further and faster. The shield is made for that stuff....