Originally posted by kamikz
In Episode 6 it is stated, in Episode 1 it is also stated that mind tricks do not work on some species (Watto is an example). In Galactic Battlegrounds, when Echuu visits Tatooine, it is also stated.
It is stated in the Phantom Menace game as well.
I do not see 'Hutts' in your explanation.
Hey! I triggered an argument, neat!
As far as I'm concerned, up until playing KOTOR, I thought that Hutts and Toydarians and a few other species were immune to Jedi Mind Tricks? I thought that that was the established rule, here...
This happened with Motta the Hutt, in the Tatooine swoop race track.
No, it's 100% force persuade, and it's not even a gameplay or dialogue mechanic, it's a cutscene.
To quote Allfg there, nope! It was dialogue mechanic. I chose the '**** you, Hutt!' option or whatever that equates to, and the Hutt went 'l0lz, Can't Touch This,' and then Bastila went '[Force Persuade] Obey!' and Hutt was like '*twitch* Obey...? Yes, okay, Obey!'
More or less, crappy game mechanics. Somebody slipped and forgot to give the Hutts immunization to Mind Tricks!
And in regards to the last part of that; Black Dalek, those would all be references to Hutts. Echuu visits Jabba, I think? Or some other Hutt, at least. Episode 6 and 1 it is stated as well...
Also, should I feel bad when I choose to be mean? The answers aren't even evil, they're just plain dick...
REVAN: Hello!
RACER: Hi!
REVAN: [Force Persuade] GTFO.
RACER: *twitch* *sob* Okay...I don't want you to kill me... *sob*
REVAN: ...I feel bad. *sob*
That's basically me as Revan. It's not evil Sith Lord material, it's just plain 'I'm an ******* with the Force!' material...
Also, I've decided that HK47 is my favorite character. His sarcasm is awesome. As well as some of the sarcastic answers you can give as Revan...
BASTILA: I'm going to ask you questions! How old are you?
REVAN: 5000, aren't I looking good for my age?
BASTILA: ... Um, what was your occupation?
REVAN: I'm an evil Hutt in human form, trying to take over the Galaxy!
Originally posted by Captain REX
I'm going to say Episode 1 and 6. 😊And in the Wizards of the Coast RPG for Star Wars, Hutt's have an immunization to Mind Tricks and the like.
-
evillaugh
Now you know my evil plan!
...
Nope, either you're doing something wrong or it hasn't been approved or the name is already taken.
He can't because Raz is missing ermm
Edit: I now laugh at allfg who has been humiliated & pwned once again.
The argument that "Bastilla is more powerful than Vader" (even suited-Vader) is beyond incompetent. Her Battle Meditation is her only considerable talent, and there are those in the Star Wars mythos who either equal or surpass her in that department, as well.
As far as her actions on Tatooine are concerned, I have to go with Rex. I think that it was an error, a mistake, and one that doesn't hold weight to the prior sources dictating that the Hutts are immune to mind tricks. A video game mechanic isn't enough to nullify such "rules".
In either case, suited-Vader is said to retain "an incredibly high amount of midichlorians" even after the events on Mustafar, according to the Visual Guide. When was Bastilla supposed to have been considered anything on par? Suffice it to say that Vader was also trained in the dark arts for two decades by a teacher far more potent than hers (Malak) and who possessed far more knowledge of the dark side, as well.
The argument that "Bastilla is more powerful than Vader" (even suited-Vader) is beyond incompetent. Her Battle Meditation is her only considerable talent,
Simply not true, refer to my opening post in the Vader/Bastilla thread.
and there are those in the Star Wars mythos who either equal or surpass her in that department, as well.
Name one.
As far as her actions on Tatooine are concerned, I have to go with Rex. I think that it was an error, a mistake, and one that doesn't hold weight to the prior sources dictating that the Hutts are immune to mind tricks. A video game mechanic isn't enough to nullify such "rules".
It's not a video game mechanic, it's a cutscene. Rex, before you accuse me of lying, you yourself said that Bastilla interrupts during dialogue. That itself isn't dialogue, bu a cutscene. And it's never ever been factually stated that Hutts are immune, it's only been stated by fallible third parties. Clearly, as Bastilla has proven, someone with an exceptional will can achieve such a feat, and the extent of her battle meditation supports that (willpower is the main factor involved in battle meditation).
In either case, suited-Vader is said to retain "an incredibly high amount of midichlorians" even after the events on Mustafar, according to the Visual Guide.
Bastilla was also said to have tremendous strength in the force, so what?
When was Bastilla supposed to have been considered anything on par?
Since also being said to possess great strength in the force? Since also being both a force and saber prodigy, as well as having great strength in the force? Since possessing the willpower to mindwipe a Hutt? Since having the power to instantly break through two powerful jedi's force shields and stun them? Since having the greatest Battle Meditation ever? Since owning a powerful dark jedi in saber combat when a mere padawan?
Suffice it to say that Vader was also trained in the dark arts for two decades by a teacher far more potent than hers (Malak) and who possessed far more knowledge of the dark side, as well.
Experience is the one thing Vader has on Bastilla, however when taking into account Bastilla's prodigy status and displayed feats (which are beyond those of Vader), it means little. And having a more powerful teacher means jack, and you know it.
Simply not true, refer to my opening post in the Vader/Bastilla thread.
I observed that argument before I made this post, Nebaris; I had your point-of-view in mind, prior.
Name one.
The Emperor.
It's not a video game mechanic, it's a cutscene. Rex, before you accuse me of lying, you yourself said that Bastilla interrupts during dialogue. That itself isn't dialogue, bu a cutscene. And it's never ever been factually stated that Hutts are immune, it's only been stated by fallible third parties. Clearly, as Bastilla has proven, someone with an exceptional will can achieve such a feat, and the extent of her battle meditation supports that (willpower is the main factor involved in battle meditation).
Assuming that that is the case, Nebaris, that Hutts have not been canonically stated to be immune to mind tricks, then how are we to assume that they are even all strong-willed? Jabba was, certainly, but if all of these Hutts aren't immune, then I don't see anything that says they are "nearly immune" or "naturally strong willed", which makes this accomplishment much less remarkable.
Bastilla was also said to have tremendous strength in the force, so what?
You've claimed that she's had several traits - being a "lightsaber prodigy", among other things. Several sources (including someone you cite as being an extremely accomplished debater) have dictated this to be a lie. Why am I to believe you?
Since also being said to possess great strength in the force? Since also being both a force and saber prodigy, as well as having great strength in the force? Since possessing the willpower to mindwipe a Hutt? Since having the power to instantly break through two powerful jedi's force shields and stun them? Since having the greatest Battle Meditation ever? Since owning a powerful dark jedi in saber combat when a mere padawan?
Support that she had the greatest Battle Meditation ever, Nebaris. If there isn't a quote dictating it as such, it is rendered non-valid and thus will be discounted. We've already discussed the Hutts, the "prodigious" strength that you credit to her.
Experience is the one thing Vader has on Bastilla, however when taking into account Bastilla's prodigy status and displayed feats (which are beyond those of Vader), it means little. And having a more powerful teacher means jack, and you know it.
This is unsupported. Until I see something concrete, you can't logically claim that she's better.
I observed that argument before I made this post, Nebaris; I had your point-of-view in mind, prior.
Then surely you can see that she has way more to her name than just her Battle Meditation, right?
The Emperor.
How so?
Bastilla's BM was so strong that both the Republic and the Sith solely relied on her Battle Meditation for the war effort.
Her BM was apparently leagues beyond Nomi Sunrider's, given that Nomi was directly stated as being around during the times, yet the Jedi didn't even acknowledge it.
Her BM was so powerful that she could instantly bring back the Republic from defeat and ensure that they win.
Assuming that that is the case, Nebaris, that Hutts have not been canonically stated to be immune to mind tricks, then how are we to assume that they are even all strong-willed? Jabba was, certainly, but if all of these Hutts aren't immune, then I don't see anything that says they are "nearly immune" or "naturally strong willed", which makes this accomplishment much less remarkable.
The PT Jedi Council acknowledge them as such during Jedi Council: Acts of War.
You've claimed that she's had several traits - being a "lightsaber prodigy", among other things. Several sources (including someone you cite as being an extremely accomplished debater) have dictated this to be a lie. Why am I to believe you?
I can provide quotes for the other claims if you wish, but for this one, this was actually one of the claims that ACStyles didn't say I was lying about.
Support that she had the greatest Battle Meditation ever, Nebaris. If there isn't a quote dictating it as such, it is rendered non-valid and thus will be discounted. We've already discussed the Hutts, the "prodigious" strength that you credit to her.
Obviously I can't prove indefinitely, but from what we know, her's is the most impressive.
This is unsupported. Until I see something concrete, you can't logically claim that she's better.
The bit about having more impressive feats? Refer to the paragraph above. In fact, I'd like to elaborate on her instantly stunning both Jolee and Juhani. PoD elaborates on how when directly affecting a force user with the force, you have to first overpower their force defence, and then apply the technique. Given that knowledge, it's pretty clear that instantly killing someone and instantly stunning someone pretty much requires the exact same power to pull off. Now given that people rate what Exar did to Odan Urr so highly (not saying you do), then they have to realise that this feat is much more impressive, as she affected not one but two force users, and she did it instantly, with no apparent effort either. This feat alone should put Bastilla in the same league as most of the SW powerhouses.
Originally posted by allfg
The bit about having more impressive feats? Refer to the paragraph above. In fact, I'd like to elaborate on her instantly stunning both Jolee and Juhani. PoD elaborates on how when directly affecting a force user with the force, you have to first overpower their force defence, and then apply the technique. Given that knowledge, it's pretty clear that instantly killing someone and instantly stunning someone pretty much requires the exact same power to pull off. Now given that people rate what Exar did to Odan Urr so highly (not saying you do), then they have to realise that this feat is much more impressive, as she affected not one but two force users, and she did it instantly, with no apparent effort either. This feat alone should put Bastilla in the same league as most of the SW powerhouses.
So then you're sayin Juhani is in league as most of the SW powerhouses? Becuz, i don't know if you remember, but in KOTOR when you fight Juhani as a Dark Sider in Dantooine, if you have companions with you, she stuns both in the exact same way Bastila stuns Juhani and Jolee.
And, talking about Bastila being a "lightsaber prodigy" i highly doubt it. As I said before, in KOTOR when you fight against her in the Star Forge, she proves to be little better than an average Dark Jedi Master (from the game). She only recovers becuz the Star Forge fuels her power.