Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Her abandonment issues were already apart of her character before the series. Her "serious grudge" is also something that was already present, except it was directed at Obi-Wan rather than Dooku.In fact, both of these concepts are covered in a series called... Obsession. 😐
Her abandonment issues weren't part of her character prior to the series. Now, she was sacrificed by Talzin, abandoned when her Jedi Master died, abandoned by Dooku, and then abandoned again by Talzin.
I've read Obsession and it was good. But Ventress has much more room for development and growth.
Her abandonment issues were covered prior to the series in that Obsession and some other EU already explained her attachment to Dooku, and her crushed reaction to him leaving her to die.
All the cartoon series did was retcon her reaction to him abandoning her. Never disagreed that her character didn't have room for growth. My argument is that the cartoon series didn't inject any growth into the character that hadn't already been touched upon. As far as her competency level it actually did the opposite. Looking at Ventress from the series, it's hard to believe that this is the woman who's nearly killed Anakin twice, the latter time just mere months prior to Revenge of the Sith.
Exactly. The first episode has her humiliated and the series turned her into the Star Wars Team Rocket.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Maul works fine as a scheming Sith. Bane's Sith have to be polymaths due to circumstances; they're not like the morons you salivate over LOL SNARL AND GROWL AND FAIL.uhuh
No he doesn't. Maul worked for the same reason Vader worked: a legitimately intimating design and sheer presence. The fact he barely talked was what made him so cool. The scene when he's pacing behind the forcefield was really cool precisely because he didn't talk. No threats, no taunts, he just ****ing stares at Jinn and waits impatiently until he can kill him.
His CW persona ruined that and made him generic.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Her abandonment issues were covered prior to the series in that Obsession and some other EU already explained her attachment to Dooku, and her crushed reaction to him leaving her to die.All the cartoon series did was retcon her reaction to him abandoning her.
Not nearly to this extent. She was abandoned by Dooku, attacked the Jedi and taken down and presumed dead; then fled the conflict and was never heard from again.
Here, we had an additional 2 seasons to explore some development with the character that the previous EU simply didn't provide.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No he doesn't. Maul worked for the same reason Vader worked: a legitimately intimating design and sheer presence. The fact he barely talked was what made him so cool. The scene when he's pacing behind the forcefield was really cool precisely because he didn't talk. No threats, no taunts, he just ****ing stares at him and waits impatiently until he can kill him.His CW persona ruined that and made him generic.
But...your very description of his original character is the "generic" characterization, lol.
The Maul that survived TPM isn't the same character as the one who died. He realized that he would never be more than a pawn if he just acted like the intimidating badass. If he truly wanted revenge and power against those whom he hated (read: everybody), he needed to scheme, scheme and talk some more. This is character growth.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No he doesn't. Maul worked for the same reason Vader worked: a legitimately intimating design and sheer presence. The fact he barely talked was what made him so cool. The scene when he's pacing behind the forcefield was really cool precisely because he didn't talk. No threats, no taunts, he just ****ing stares at him and waits impatiently until he can kill him.His CW persona ruined that and made him generic.
And removed by a span of 13 years and no longer in Sidious's employ, deranged and thirsting for vengeance, he doesn't have to keep his mouth shut.
His CW persona was a reminder that a Rule of Two Sith can't be a moron with a red glowstick.
I hear SWTOR has a surplus of those, though, if you're into that sort of thing.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
And removed by a span of 13 years and no longer in Sidious's employ, deranged and thirsting for vengeance, he doesn't have to keep his mouth shut.His CW persona was a reminder that a Rule of Two Sith can't be a moron with a red glowstick.
I hear SWTOR has a surplus of those, though, if you're into that sort of thing.
Who cares? The fact is he should have kept his mouth shut because that was what was appealing about his character from the start.
🙄 Change the tune love, this one was stale before it was baked.
Originally posted by Master Han
Should Vader have not been redeemed, because his villainous was a part of his character?
Completely different and you know it. Vaders redemption was tied into Lukes story and improved his character in numerous ways, whilst Maul can never be taken seriously as a schemer because we know his schemes don't work.
Originally posted by Master Han
So only Palpatine can scheme? Because he's the only one who succeeds in the end. Except not really even.You must hate Vitiate's character, since he's a schemer, and he obviously fails in the end.
👆
I'd like to thank Neph for invalidating every other Sith Lord other than Sidious. It pleases me that you admit he's better than everybody from SWTOR. 😂
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, but I'm not going to be engaged with Mauls character trying to become more intelligent
Maul is already very intelligent, if not humble. He just had channeled his intelligence into doing his master's bidding. By TCW, he realizes he had been played. Just like Ventress realized she had been played. I suppose Anakin, semi-justly, realized this as well, and he certainly did when he got into that suit. Sidious ultimately played them all, didn't he?
He's matched only by Scourge, who played Vitiate like a fool, and Malgus...who played Vitiate like a fool.
and legitimate as you say he is when I know its not going to amount to anything, particularly when it takes away the cool part of his character.
What makes you think it won't amount to anything? His killing off Obi Wan's love interest potentially develops Kenobi's character arc. He could contribute to Anakin's fall, or Sidious's rise, or whatever.
I know Maul was already intelligent. I'm not saying he should be stupid like Temp is accusing me of. I just don't care for him as a scheming character when he works so well as a blunt instrument.
Don't care about any of that. I already know whats going to happen. Retconning Maul in isn't going to engage me.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
And removed by a span of 13 years and no longer in Sidious's employ, deranged and thirsting for vengeance, he doesn't have to keep his mouth shut.
Exactly. In the service of Sidious, Maul was like a humbled boy who minded his manners and followed orders. But that didn't mean he didn't have the mind of a schemer.
However, during the events of TCW, he was no longer under the thumb of Sidious and was free to do whatever. But then Sidious comes along, kills Maul's brother, and beats Maul in to submission, leaving him to realize that he was still no match for Sidious. And after the beatdown, we see Maul beg for mercy right before Sidious smiles and proceeds to torture him with lightning, and then we remember why Maul was the way he was in TPM: he was deathly scared of his sadistic master.
All TCW Maul needed was to be put back in his place, and Sidious did that.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
And removed by a span of 13 years and no longer in Sidious's employ, deranged and thirsting for vengeance, he doesn't have to keep his mouth shut.
Yeah would be a bit strange if he did.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
His CW persona was a reminder that a Rule of Two Sith can't be a moron with a red glowstick.
Exactly right.