The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

With the Death Star plans, we're left in the dark about something. How the Rebels managed to obtain such pivotal, classified intelligence is never elaborated; all we know is that they have it.

As in that case, the story doesn't suffer simply because we're not given details surrounding the details of the clone army's origins. As I said, we know enough: A man named Tyranus hired Fett to serve as a template for the clone army; we later learn that Tyranus is Dooku's Sith alias, thus linking the Sith to the clones for the audience.

The details of the order are not important, just as the details of how the Death Star plans conveniently found themselves in Rebel hands are similarly unimportant.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
With the Death Star plans, we're left in the dark about something. How the Rebels managed to obtain such pivotal, classified intelligence is never elaborated; all we know is that they have it.

As in that case, the story doesn't suffer simply because we're not given details surrounding the details of the clone army's origins. As I said, we know enough: A man named Tyranus hired Fett to serve as a template for the clone army; we later learn that Tyranus is Dooku's Sith alias, thus linking the Sith to the clones for the audience.

The details of the order are not important, just as the details of how the Death Star plans conveniently found themselves in Rebel hands are similarly unimportant.

Why even mention Sifo-Dyas, his role as a Jedi, and the fact that he was "killed" if you're never, ever going to elaborate on any of it? We don't need to know how the Rebels obtained the plans, we just need to know why. And the opening scene and crawl tell us why. If you're going to introduce a character and state that he played a pivotal role in the formation of a clone army that itself plays a pivotal role, then you need to explain this person a little more than not at all. And if he really doesn't matter to your plot, don't introduce him.

The difference though is that the Rebels having the plans is not presented as a mystery or a sub-plot within the movie, simply having them is the sub-plot. Whereas in AotC, the origin of the Clone army is presented as both a mystery and a sub-plot (Obi-Wan investigating this sifo-dias/clone lead).

But, it's a sub-plot/mystery that is never followed up on once Obi-Wan reaches Geonosis. That is the problem. If the Clone army had simply shown up out of the blue without all the former investigation on Obi-Wan's part, or if it had been stated that Dooku was the one who ordered the army, it would have been fine.

edit- Shut the **** up Lucian.

Ninja'd yo ass, bich.

But... That is how the movie presented it. Fett says he was hired by Tyranus; Sidious calls Dooku Tyranus at the end.

Ditto for midichlorians. I actually don't object to the idea - but if you're going to entirely revolutionize the fabric of the SW franchise, you could do well to mention it more than twice in the entire series.

Random deviation: the same problem, IMO, occurs with Kirk in the rebooted ST franchise, where his father's death, and his mother, are both mysteriously forgotten about by Kirk for the rest of the series. He never seems to be wanting a father figure.

That's because his dad is the god of thunder. He's too busy saving Asgard and making out with Natalie Portman to be a responsible dad.

Originally posted by Master Han
Ditto for midichlorians. I actually don't object to the idea - but if you're going to entirely revolutionize the fabric of the SW franchise, you could do well to mention it more than twice in the entire series.

Personally I see midichlorians and (urgh) "maxichlorians" as dumber than most of the EU stuff Tempest complains about.

Always thought the hate for midichlorians was overblown. Yeah, I dint like how theForce was presented in the Prequals but midis were only a small part of that.

Maxichlorians are dumb as hell though.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
But... That is how the movie presented it. Fett says he was hired by Tyranus; Sidious calls Dooku Tyranus at the end.

And none of that covers the mystery of Sifo-Dyas, who he was, why he did what he did, or why he was murdered.

O_O

What?

I lost the game.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
[B]The Jedi don't know he's Tyrannus. Obi-Wan never discovered who Fett's mysterious employer was. And if he somehow did come to the realization that it was Dooku, then that means they are currently using a clone army whose template was specifically hired by Dooku. An ex-Jedi that has clearly fallen to the Dark Side and is in league with the Sith. So either we have an unresolved mystery, or we have the most retarded ass people who ever lived.

😐 That Tyrannus = Dooku isn't a mystery to us. That it's a mystery to the Jedi is hardly a plot hole. That they don't investigate it further on-screen is simply a product of its irrelevance to the narration, because we know the answer, and we know that the Jedi couldn't possibly have figured out Dooku's sith name.

...but that Jango Fett stands next to Dooku in AotC, and follows his orders, sort of gives the clone-droid-interconnected-conspiracy away.

Originally posted by Master Han
😐 That Tyrannus = Dooku isn't a mystery to us. That it's a mystery to the Jedi is hardly a plot hole. That they don't investigate it further on-screen is simply a product of its irrelevance to the narration, because we know the answer, and we know that the Jedi couldn't possibly have figured out Dooku's sith name.

...but that Jango Fett stands next to Dooku in AotC, and follows his orders, sort of gives the clone-droid-interconnected-conspiracy away.

And that we know but the Jedi don't isn't an excuse to have the Jedi stop investigating, or indeed, caring. Letting the audience in on a secret while watching the players on screen work to solve it, is a valid form of storytelling. AotC and RotS don't even do that. They tell the audience, and make the rest of the characters forget/apathetic to the mystery. It'd be like a Scooby Doo episode where half way through the gang just says, "Jinkies, f*ck this mystery," and no one cares anymore about unmasking the spooky ghost.

But seeing Jango and Dooku together doesn't point to the interconnection between the clones, separatists, and Sith. All we (and the Jedi, assuming Obi-Wan told them everything he knew) know at that point is that Fett was hired by Tyrannus, and the identity of Tyrannus hasn't been revealed. For all we (or they) know, Fett works for both Dooku and Tyrannus, and perhaps Dooku and Tyrannus both work for the Sith. I think George forgot to write in the scene where the Jedi realize that two are one in the same. But at no point in either film do the main characters learn the truth. Or seem to care about the issue at all. Or any issue at all.

U mad, bro?

For the record, Savage Opress actually is the stupidest villain name ever conceived.

At least it's pronounced differently.

And Darth Scourge is worse.

I liked how they tried to hide how stupid it was by Frenchifying his first name.

Originally posted by ares834
At least it's pronounced differently.

And Darth Scourge is worse.

Not really, since he's a Sith Pureblood in the Sith Empire, so it makes at least some sense for him to just straight-up have a Sith name from the start.

Savage Opress is still much much stupider tho.

I thought it was a joke name when his character was first announced.