Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This is misconstruing what I'm saying a bit. Let's rephrase:1. There's no defense against TK for non-Force users.
2. Force users can applying TK to incapacitate, knock down, ragdoll, or kill non-Force users depending on their level of mastery. (This is what we call evident)
3. Any time a Force user of sufficient skill (read: not a 10 year old padawan) goes against a non-Force user, due to plot-convenience or Rule of Cool, they tend to duke it out. It's pretty much PIS defined.
1. Theres no defense, but plenty of ways to get around it. Also, in the Consular storyline Theran Cedrax develops a device to prevent a Jedi from using mind tricks. Which isn't TK, but I think still cool.
2. And there are ways to prevent them from doing that, evidently.
3. We could call it that, or we could call it the non-Force user putting them on the back foot enough that they can't just pwn them with TK or are so off their game that they don't try.
Originally posted by Nephthys
1. Theres no defense, but plenty of ways to get around it. Also, in the Consular storyline Theran Cedrax develops a device to prevent a Jedi from using mind tricks. Which isn't TK, but I think still cool.
There are natural resistances to mind control, and the idea of willpower too. This doesn't have anything to do with TK though.
Regarding your point, when canonically has anyone "gotten around" TK? Did they block the all-pervading Force with a shield?
2. And there are ways to prevent them from doing that, evidently.
3. We could call it that, or we could call it the non-Force user putting them on the back foot enough that they can't just pwn them with TK or are so off their game that they don't try.
Again, in a neutral setting, where people aren't being ambushed, aren't subject to PIS, and aren't standing in each other's laps, there's no reason to conclude anyone could "block" or "get around" TK. Even at ten paces.
Quite frankly, the idea that the Jedi ever had to resort to melee combat was never well implemented. It should have been established early on that TK and mind control did not work on Force users period, and that they had to resort to sabers to settle their differences.
But GL isn't known for his forethought.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
There are natural resistances to mind control, and the idea of willpower too. This doesn't have anything to do with TK though.Regarding your point, when canonically has anyone "gotten around" TK? Did they block the all-pervading Force with a shield?
I know, I just thought it was worth noting. Theoretically, if you can do that you can probably prevent other applications of Force use as well.
Well you can wear armor strong enough to be able to shrug off their pushes or stop them from harming you with TK via breaking arms or whatever. And you can use something to break their concentration if they try incapacitation. Flares, rockets, grenades, sonics, whatever. The only one I'm unsure about is a necksnap, but I guess Mando's could have something built into their armor to prevent that, like plating that doesn't allow you head to turn that far. mmm
Or you can just be fast enough and good enough that they can't tag you. In the Act II ending the Imperial Agent flat out dodges a Force Push at close range. Or you can put them on the defensive to the point where they're focused on defending and can't use the Force.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I know, I just thought it was worth noting. Theoretically, if you can do that you can probably prevent other applications of Force use as well.Well you can wear armor strong enough to be able to shrug off their pushes or stop them from harming you with TK via breaking arms or whatever. And you can use something to break their concentration if they try incapacitation. Flares, rockets, grenades, sonics, whatever. The only one I'm unsure about is a necksnap, but I guess Mando's could have something built into their armor to prevent that, like plating that doesn't allow you head to turn that far. mmm
Or you can just be fast enough and good enough that they can't tag you. In the Act II ending the Imperial Agent flat out dodges a Force Push at close range. Or you can put them on the defensive to the point where they're focused on defending and can't use the Force.
Qui-Gon reaches inside of droids and turns them off, and has the TK to impact a dice roll, IIRC. I realize he's a Jedi Master, but his Force showings are relatively norm for the 'heroes' of Star Wars, and if this any indication even armor wouldn't be sufficient as the TK is able to affect a great deal.
I imagine you could keep some Force users on the defensive, but this implies a strategic ambush or situational advantage that allows you to dictate the battle, even for a little while. Part of the reason why Grievous took out so many Jedi Masters is his ambush technique, when Obi-Wan pretty much TK'd him across the room with a gesture.
Of course, it bothered me that Obi-Wan didn't you know, crush his heart, but I guess it's more honorable to wub wub saber your opponent and then shoot his heart than to just use TK and save time.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Qui-Gon reaches inside of droids and turns them off, and has the TK to impact a dice roll, IIRC. I realize he's a Jedi Master, but his Force showings are relatively norm for the 'heroes' of Star Wars, and if this any indication even armor wouldn't be sufficient as the TK is able to affect a great deal.I imagine you could keep some Force users on the defensive, but this implies a strategic ambush or situational advantage that allows you to dictate the battle, even for a little while. Part of the reason why Grievous took out so many Jedi Masters is his ambush technique, when Obi-Wan pretty much TK'd him across the room with a gesture.
Of course, it bothered me that Obi-Wan didn't you know, crush his heart, but I guess it's more honorable to wub wub saber your opponent and then shoot his heart than to just use TK and save time.
When does he turn off droids? But yeah, not shit the Force can bypass armor. I only said it would protect against Force Push, the most commonly used Jedi offensive ability and other such attacks.
No it doesn't. The Agent put Kothe on the defensive just by dodging his Push then blasting at him, before beating him by activating rayshields and heavy turrets. Similarly the Champion put Jun Seros on the defensive by blasting and attacking him with missiles and a flamethrower. Both times they openly talked right before then started on equal terms. Hell, at one point the Champion defeats a Jedi who ambushed him from behind and opened up with the Force.
Yeah, Kenobi did. But it didn't affect Grievous at all, did it? In fact all it did was allow GG to escape.
Yes, Jedi don't use the Force to kill someone in those ways.
Umad bro? Your tone suggests that you are.
Originally posted by Nephthys
When does he turn off droids? But yeah, not shit the Force can bypass armor. I only said it would protect against Force Push, the most commonly used Jedi offensive ability and other such attacks.
Since when is Force push the only way to kill someone? Didn't you see Sidious just instantly murder people with a gesture?
No it doesn't. The Agent put Kothe on the defensive just by dodging his Push then blasting at him, before beating him by activating rayshields and heavy turrets. Similarly the Champion put Jun Seros on the defensive by blasting and attacking him with missiles and a flamethrower. Both times they openly talked right before then started on equal terms. Hell, at one point the Champion defeats a Jedi who ambushed [b]him
from behind aoond opened up with the Force. [/b]
Dodging a Force push sounds retarded but it's validity doesn't preclude more direct forms of TK. Unless you want to argue that Force choke or Force crush or Force TK a landslide is a line of sight dodgable power.
Yeah, Kenobi did. But it didn't affect Grievous at all, did it? In fact all it did was allow GG to escape.
Point was TK can impact non Force users. I even used the Qui Gon examp,e as to why Kenobi should have been able to TK Grievous's heart, gg. But SW media goes for Rule of Cool because it is entertainment. There's no logical reason otherwise.
Yes, Jedi don't use the Force to kill someone in those ways.
Yeah they just use blasters and less effective ways of TK coupled with killing via laserswords. It all makes perfect sense.
I replied that way because you have a long history of claiming that people are becoming weaker because you get your news from Foxdisagree with non-violent stances on child rearing. While you're not wrong in most cases, your agenda sometimes shows, so I like to know if you're arguing from specific to general.
Btw to everyone that hasn't seen it, I just saw Thor 2 and I thought it was pretty disappointing. With that said, Tom Middleton is a ****ing boss. The guy continues to shell out phenomenal performances as Loki.
Also, here is some masturbation material for your viewing pleasure.
Originally posted by PetrusThat's probably true. Choking or TKing Vizsla would've possibly been considered unfair and unhonorable for the Mandos and thus the win against him would've meant nothing. But still, there's really no way to actually prove this.
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No but you can prove that Maul didn't once use TK on Vizsla by just showing the fight. You can also prove that other Death Watch warriors were not even able to give Opress a fight when he used TK on them.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Umad bro? Your tone suggests that you are.
Bwah? Not even a little, lol. I'm feeling good today.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Since when is Force push the only way to kill someone? Didn't you see Sidious just instantly murder people with a gesture?
It isn't. By a longshot. I was just mentioning it because its the extent to which most Jedi will use the Force offensively and its so common.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Dodging a Force push sounds retarded but it's validity doesn't preclude more direct forms of TK. Unless you want to argue that Force choke or Force crush or Force TK a landslide is a line of sight dodgable power.
Grievous has dodged Force Pushes before and yes I know about those other techniques. I addressed them in my second post as things that can be prevented by breaking the Force users concentration through various means.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Point was TK can impact non Force users. I even used the Qui Gon examp,e as to why Kenobi should have been able to TK Grievous's heart, gg. But SW media goes for Rule of Cool because it is entertainment. There's no logical reason otherwise.
There is, since Jedi don't use the Force in such aggressive ways. This was established in the OT.
Even then, its not as simple as 'crush heart, gg'. Even when Mace used Force Crush on Grievous he only crushed his chest, instead of bypassing it to get to his heart.
Also another reason is that thats too violent for SW.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Yeah they just use blasters and less effective ways of TK coupled with killing via laserswords. It all makes perfect sense.
Thats different since blasters and lightsabers aren't powered by a universal energy field tied into the lifeforce of every living thing in the galaxy that can affect your mind and others. Its like asking 'well why doesn't Frodo just use the Ring all the time' or wondering why the wizard doesn't bust out dark magic and necromancy and shit.