Originally posted by Zampanó
In order to evaluate the speeds of characters, it is helpful to look first at the descriptions of their own actions, and then compare against the abilities of their opponents. This method has one main benefit: By first establishing a realistic "league" within which a character can operate (as I intend to do below) we can then estimate how fast another character might be.First, let's look at Darth Bane's abilities as described in the beginning of Dynasty of Evil. In this passage, Darth Bane is exercising during a rainstorm and uses his lightsaber to block every single droplet of water from touching his skin. This is actually an absurdly impressive feat, as is demonstrated here. First, it is important to get information about our contestant:
In the real world, Mr Olympia is 5'9" and weighs 280 pounds in the off-season (250 in the on-season). Extrapolating, it is not inconceivable for Bane to weigh 300 pounds.
Using these numbers (200 cm, 300 lbs) I used this online calculator to estimate Bane's surface area as 2.75 square meters.
The Wookiee lists a lightsaber as being "usually 145 cm" (1.45 m) long and a good estimate (backed up by an archived forum) guesses it is 4 cm (.04 m) wide. The surface area of a cross section of a lightsaber blade is thus .058 meters square.
Bane is successful at using is .058 square meter rectangle to defend his entire 2.75 square meter body surface area from rainfall. Dividing the two numbers shows that the lightsaber has to cover an area 62.5 times larger than itself every second. That's 62.5 places for the lightsaber to be every second.
One possible objection is that counting both the front and back of Darth Bane may overstate his speed. However, the narration of Bane's training exercise is very clear that he is not minimizing surface area, and that both his front and back is in danger at any given time:
If anything, the surface area of this analysis is understated (because I refuse to do calculus to track his exposure to the rain!)
Now, we have established that the lightsaber is covering an area 62.5 times greater than its own, every single second. Why is that significant? Well, the narration is clear that this is more than a light sprinkling of rain:
Emphasis mine.
A government website lists the number of drops per second per square foot as 1,220. That means that the area covered by the lightsaber at any given moment experiences .058 * 1,220 = 70.75 raindrops per second. Flipping that, we get .014 seconds per raindrop.
If Bane were simply moving his lightsaber up and down then it would travel 2*2 meters (head to toe and back again) in .014 seconds. This results in a speed of 285 m/s. Sadly, Bane is spinning and jumping and greatly increasing the distance his lightsaber has to travel before it can return to any given point. Let's say that the twists, twirls, and contortions triple the distance that the lightsaber has to go. Then we get a speed of 857 m/s, which is very close to the muzzle velocity of an M16 rifle.
Bane is practically in bullet time during his training period, which holds no stakes beyond pride.
By comparrison, the Plagueis feat is relatively tame:
We have two combatants, waving light sources at what is presumably a fast speed. The forest is dark, and the two sources flare upon contact. To describe this as lightning is accurate, but hardly evocative of conduction at the speed of light. Moreover, there is no report of blades appearing in more than one place at once. Instead, the blades are, at best, a blur:
This is not impressive, in terms of either hyperbole or fact. Superior combatants are said to weild multiple blades (Kas'im, Windu) or trace the perimeter of an entire body (Sidious).
Last, I'd like to point out that speed of locomotion is significantly different from speed of reaction. Bane is moving his lightsaber very quickly and unless Plagueis is able to claim victory by running in a straight line in the opposite direction, I'll pick the guy who can move in bullet time.
Less than mach 3?
Bane is sloooooooooooooooow.
Originally posted by ZampanóI don't remember liking the movie. It's probably not a good sign that I don't even remember much about it.
It's Xmas break. That only took about forty five minutes, anyway. Better than jumping through every past Bane thread to find the stupid version I posted a few years ago.Cloud Atlas is still fantastic, btw. Reading the book makes the story in the movie even more intricate.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Less than mach 3?Bane is sloooooooooooooooow.
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LL, you were the one who kept expecting some deep philosophical experience out of Cloud Atlas and was disappointed when all we got was an exploration of the way cause and effect cyclically mimic each other.
It's got stunning visuals and an engaging/intricate story. There's not a whole lot of hidden meaning, but not every movie has to be a philosophically groundbreaking achievement. Some are just interesting.
Originally posted by ZampanóYup, that was it. I hadn't been expecting something more based on nothing; the trailers and initial scenes of the film suggested that there was something deeper at work in the film's plot. Turns out there wasn't. And the explanation they gave for the events felt like the movie grabbed something out of left field and held it up as the driving force/theme. Great visuals and intricate/complex stories don't a good movie make. Just look at the Matrix sequels.
LL, you were the one who kept expecting some deep philosophical experience out of Cloud Atlas and was disappointed when all we got was an exploration of the way cause and effect cyclically mimic each other.It's got stunning visuals and an engaging/intricate story. There's not a whole lot of hidden meaning, but not every movie has to be a philosophically groundbreaking achievement. Some are just interesting.
Originally posted by NemeBro
What do you mean?
Tenebrus (Plagueis's master) has a lightsaber battle in a forest at night with another Sith. (I'm not 100% clear if it is the master or a fellow apprentice). There is a passage where Tenebrus muses that the fight would look like lightning to an outside observer.
This means that Tenebrus is as fast as lightning. Thus, Tenebrus is faster than (Orbalisk) Bane.
Part 2 of their argument is that Tenebrus caught Plagueis off guard by running quickly, and so therefore Tenebrus is faster than (Orbalisk) Bane.
I show that Bane is objectively very fast.
Now, Comic book power levels are known to be much higher than Star Wars power levels. You are at least partially involved in the comic book community, i thought, so I figured you were going to cite some bullshit about the Flash or maybe the triforce of speed 😛
if you weren't going to do that then I apologize.
Originally posted by ZampanóMorgoth is a pussy.
that would have made me ragequit.Space marines are, universally, considered cheating.
Superman vs. Space marines? stomp
Goku vs Space marines? Stomp
Morgoth vs Space marines? lolThey are just too OP
I feel like I should point that out.
If Tulkas so much as just glances in Melkor/Morgoth's direction, he begins to piss himself and run away.
1. Nova is obviously a waste of time. "But if Zannah could win then Bane's rule of two failed" is basically the definition of denying the antecedent. I'll write up a response and have Neph post it FOR me, since obviously new members get no respectresponse there.
2. Melkor is a badass. He suffuses the entirety of Middle Earth with his essence. he jizzed in the batter, dude!
"Now when I think of Darth Sidious (Palpatine), I laugh at him! Because compared to the Sith Emperor (Vitiate), Palpatine is a joke…If they had battled, I wouldn’t even consider it a battle, Vitiate would just walk in the room and Palpatine would be annihilated in a fraction of a second. I never liked Palpatine to begin with, he doesn’t even care about the Sith, what really bothers me is that he pretty much destroyed every crystal deposit that he could find in the galaxy. But I’m not saying I like Vitiate any better, I won’t spoil the book (Star Wars: Revan) for anyone who hasn’t read it but, all I can say is Palpatine is a joke and Vitiate is an abomination. Nathema……"
True words. True, true words. 🙂
To be fair, Melkor realizes fear because he is infusing Earth with his power and becoming steadily more "mortal". It's worth noting that during the timeless battle before the elves awoke, he ravaged the face of the planet holding off the entirety of the Valar, save Tulkas. Tulkas came from the beyond well after the fact, IIRC. How far along are you?