The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

I prefer the OT but I am very much uninterested in anything except the movies from that era. For me, its a self-contained story that I'm just not interested in learning more about. Probably because theres only 3 Jedi left.

The PT doesn't interest me, but it sets up a lot that can be explored. The war offers a lot of storytelling potential and the abundance of Jedi generate a lot of interest.

Kotor and TOR are the era's I'm the most drawn to though, having practically limitless potential to explore ideas and create stories.

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Originally posted by Nephthys
I prefer the OT but I am very much uninterested in anything except the movies from that era. For me, its a self-contained story that I'm just not interested in learning more about. Probably because theres only 3 Jedi left.

The PT doesn't interest me, but it sets up a lot that can be explored. The war offers a lot of storytelling potential and the abundance of Jedi generate a lot of interest.

Kotor and TOR are the era's I'm the most drawn to though, having practically limitless potential to explore ideas and create stories.

I agree with this 100%.

Meh, I really liked the storyline. Palpatine is easily the best villain in Star Wars; we get three full movies dedicated to him winning, which is pretty damn rare for a bad guy in mainstream cinema. Really appreciated the political narrative. And while part of me wishes Anakin was more likeable a la his TCW portrayal, that he was a psychologically disturbed prodigy is commensurate with his life choices as seen in the OT. The PT's flaws were in pacing, dialogue, and in many cases, the acting. But the story? Like it a lot more than the OT.

The problem for me is that TOR's inherent weakness is manifest by its shameless dependency on the films. It borrows liberallyoutright thieves from the film saga in its visual cues, storyline, and characters. Vitiate's very one-dimensional existence is tacit proof that Palpatine sets the standard for Star Wars villainy.

KotOR and its sequel, on the other hand, were either great in execution or in potential. Too bad we can't return to that.

Temp, true. I'm just frustrated that I haven't been able to keep up with all the new works. Hell, I don't even know when the Rebel series is supposed to air, but that can easily be googled I guess.

I'm also looking forward to the Maul mini series.

Rebels will be airing in summer of 2014, premiered by a lead-in movie. And as much as I'm underwhelmed by the premise, I'll definitely give it a shot: Greg Weisman from Gargoyles will be a major creative force.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The problem for me is that TOR's inherent weakness is manifest by its shameless dependency on the films. It borrows liberallyoutright thieves from the film saga in its visual cues, storyline, and characters. Vitiate's very one-dimensional existence is tacit proof that Palpatine sets the standard for Star Wars villainy.

KotOR and its sequel, on the other hand, were either great in execution or in potential. Too bad we can't return to that.

Actually, a large part of the TOR lore is how Vitiate grand-theft-mes key Republic figures while forcing them into an uneasy surrender and expanding his domination and Force powers to near-cosmic levels. While he may not be manipulating people in a senate chamber or chancellor's office to the extent that Sids does, in terms of bad guy, he's not a mock-up of Sids and is probably more dangerous to the Republic.

While some nods exist, there's plenty of original content. The IA's storyline in particular might suit your tastes most though. Intrigue ftw.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Meh, I really liked the storyline. Palpatine is easily the best villain in Star Wars; we get three full movies dedicated to him winning, which is pretty damn rare for a bad guy in mainstream cinema. Really appreciated the political narrative. And while part of me wishes Anakin was more likeable a la his TCW portrayal, that he was a psychologically disturbed prodigy is commensurate with his life choices as seen in the OT. The PT's flaws were in pacing, dialogue, and in many cases, the acting. But the story? Like it a lot more than the OT.

Palpatine was completely underutilised in TPM and AotC though. I don't care about how rare it is for him to win when he fails to establish himself as a compelling main villain in the majority of his appearances. Plus the political narrative was, frankly shit. "If only.... Senator Amidala was here." 🙄 That part of the story just isn't done well imo. Even on a story level I find it very lacking. TPM's political stuff is dull as dishwater, AotC was lackluster (what even happened?) and RotS didn't get the screen-time to be interesting. Palpatine gains control practically off-screen. Sure the things he did to boost himself are shown, but they aren't connected enough to him gaining power for it to resonance with the audience. We simply don't see enough of him as Sidious until RotS.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Actually, a large part of the TOR lore is how Vitiate grand-theft-mes key Republic figures while forcing them into an uneasy surrender and expanding his domination and Force powers to near-cosmic levels. While he may not be manipulating people in a senate chamber or chancellor's office to the extent that Sids does, in terms of bad guy, he's not a mock-up of Sids and is probably more dangerous to the Republic.

While some nods exist, there's plenty of original content. The IA's storyline in particular might suit your tastes most though. Intrigue ftw.

👆

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Actually, a large part of the TOR lore is how Vitiate grand-theft-mes key Republic figures while forcing them into an uneasy surrender and expanding his domination and Force powers to near-cosmic levels. While he may not be manipulating people in a senate chamber or chancellor's office to the extent that Sids does, in terms of bad guy, he's not a mock-up of Sids and is probably more dangerous to the Republic.

I'm pretty familiar with TOR as it pertains to Vitiate. While it's true that they aren't totally identical, Vitiate's endgame is more or less an updated version of the reborn Emperor's as articulated in The Dark Empire Sourcebook. At the end of the day, he's an ancient, hooded, manipulative 'emperor' obsessed with immortality and apotheosis, destined to be conquered by a messiah figure, who potentially discovers a way to survive even that defeat.

That's a description that applies to Vitiate and Sidious equally. A better and more interesting idea would have been to make the 'Sith Emperor' a Big Brother figure a la Orwell's 1984; a myth perpetrated by the Dark Council.

It's inarguable that Palpatine's shadow looms over Vitiate's existence; you can't deny it.

SM
While some nods exist, there's plenty of original content. The IA's storyline in particular might suit your tastes most though. Intrigue ftw.

Oh, sure, I didn't mean to suggest that there's not original content. But the hilarious repetition abound in the meta storyline limits the degree to which I plumb its depths for the more intricate stuff.

The animation of Rebels looks kind of comical IMO.

I loved the Gargoyles, though, so it might be good.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Palpatine was completely underutilised in TPM and AotC though. I don't care about how rare it is for him to win when he fails to establish himself as a compelling main villain in the majority of his appearances. Plus the political narrative was, frankly shit. "If only.... Senator Amidala was here." 🙄 That part of the story just isn't done well imo. Even on a story level I find it very lacking. TPM's political stuff is dull as dishwater, AotC was lackluster (what even happened?) and RotS didn't get the screen-time to be interesting. Palpatine gains control practically off-screen. Sure the things he did to boost himself are shown, but they aren't connected enough to him gaining power for it to resonance with the audience. We simply don't see enough of him as Sidious until RotS.

Palpatine wasn't underutilized at all; his appearances are such that he's introduced as a major player without dominating the screen until such a time that his ascent is nearly complete. You're able to follow his machinations through his various underlings and minions. Or even in totally Palpatineless scenes like in AOTC when Padme and Anakin discuss the virtues of democracy vis a vis a dictatorship on Naboo.

He was used just fine.

Vitiate is corny, especially his line when he was defeated by HoT. It was like he was trying too hard to be evil, while it just comes more natural to Sidious.

Yeah, they just don't do anything really unique with him beyond (arguably) his possession trick.

As it stands, there's no denying that Vitiate exists because of Palpatine. Just like Malgus is an expy of Vader, Vitiate is an imitation of Palpatine. At least Malgus stands somewhat on his own feet.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Palpatine wasn't underutilized at all; his appearances are such that he's introduced as a major player without dominating the screen until such a time that his ascent is nearly complete. You're able to follow his machinations through his various underlings and minions. Or even in totally Palpatineless scenes like in AOTC when Padme and Anakin discuss the virtues of democracy vis a vis a dictatorship on Naboo.

He was used just fine.

Nah man. In TPM and AotC all he does is speak ominously with the bad guys for like 30 seconds while wearing a cloak. Thats just not compelling. I know he's doing stuff, but I don't care because I'm never shown why I should.

And all the Joker does is speak silly lines about scars while dressed in clown makeup. It's all subjective, bro.

But Palpatine's patience and cunning make him far more compelling than the average scifi thug who comes along and tries (and fails!) to achieve his ends through brute force.

Then there's Vitiate's speech of "I will become a painter, a writer, a farmer...." WTF? No. Just no.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Then there's Vitiate's speech of "I will become a painter, a writer, a farmer...." WTF? No. Just no.

A lounge singer? A candlestick maker? A prostitute? lol

You can't top Sidious, no. But there are some other great villains out there: Daiman from Knight Errant, Nom Anor from NJO, G0-T0 & Traya from KotOR II, Malak from KotOR, etc.

Ra's Al Ghul was a better villain than joker, IMO.

That's your Well-Intentioned Extremist vs. For The Evulz motivation. They're close; I don't know which I like better.