Originally posted by The_Tempest
And all the Joker does is speak silly lines about scars while dressed in clown makeup. It's all subjective, bro.But Palpatine's patience and cunning make him far more compelling than the average scifi thug who comes along and tries (and fails!) to achieve his ends through brute force.
No, he actually does stuff. The first scene we're introduced to him as he effortlessly robs a bank and leaves with the money after killing off his hired help. Then he walks into a room of people who want to kill him, stabs a guy through the eyeball with a pencil and walk out again while cracking jokes. The movies building him up until shit goes down. And Ledger is able to charm the audience because he's allowed to show his face and do stuff that isn't standing in a robe, monologuing in a low voice about his scary plan.
With Palpatine, all he does is talk in a low voice in flat scenes with his minions. He's not compelling because he never actually does anything to make the audience scared or threatened or feel anything in regards him. We know he's the Emperor, but he doesn't do anything to emotionally engage the audience. In Dark Rendevous and other works he's a creepy, threatening villain because he makes Dooku shit his pants and we're actually shown why he's a big deal. In TPM and Aotc? He might as well be chanting 'The Greater Good' around a table with the other ominious old people.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, he actually does stuff. The first scene we're introduced to him as he effortlessly robs a bank and leaves with the money after killing off his hired help. Then he walks into a room of people who want to kill him, stabs a guy through the eyeball with a pencil and walk out again while cracking jokes. The movies building him up until shit goes down.
So a bad guy has to rob banks and blow things up to be compelling? lol
Originally posted by Nephthys
With Palpatine, all he does is talk in a low voice in flat scenes with his minions. He's not compelling because he never actually does anything to make the audience scared or threatened or feel anything in regards him. We know he's the Emperor, but he doesn't do anything to emotionally engage the audience. In Dark Rendevous and other works he's a creepy, threatening villain because he makes Dooku shit his pants and we're actually shown why he's a big deal. In TPM and Aotc? He might as well be chanting 'The Greater Good' around a table with the other ominious old people.
We've been through this, bro. Palpatine's patient, calculating subversion of a galactic democracy and orchestration of a major war is about ten billion times more terrifying and dangerous than Joker's pencil tricks and street-level terrorism. The fact that he doesn't make scary faces or find creative uses for writing utensils doesn't mean that what he does is any less compelling or interesting.
In other words, you're a guy who's worried about the Ted Kaczynskis and Dzhokhar Tsarnaevs of the world; I'm more concerned with the Josef Stalins and Adolf Hitlers.
Palpatine properly conveyed enough menace because we saw what his actions and decisions did to the rest of the galaxy.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yeah, they just don't do anything really unique with him beyond (arguably) his possession trick.As it stands, there's no denying that Vitiate exists because of Palpatine. Just like Malgus is an expy of Vader, Vitiate is an imitation of Palpatine. At least Malgus stands somewhat on his own feet.
The problem with Vitiate is that he's a lazy mash-up of two characters, namely, Palpatine (As you said) and Darth Nihilus.
Blax once said that the problem with TOR is that so many of the characters are blatant disjointed combinations of iconic movie characters everyone knows, and EU characters that some of the more hardcore fans know. Judging by what I know of Vitiate, that seems accurate as it pertains to him.
Originally posted by NemeBro
The problem with Vitiate is that he's a lazy mash-up of two characters, namely, Palpatine (As you said) and Darth Nihilus.Blax once said that the problem with TOR is that so many of the characters are blatant disjointed combinations of iconic movie characters everyone knows, and EU characters that some of the more hardcore fans know. Judging by what I know of Vitiate, that seems accurate as it pertains to him.
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This is why I prefer KotOR to TOR and NJO to Legacy. I'm all for expanding the mythology and alluding to better known and more important works like the movies.
But there comes a time when you need to infuse your storyline and characters with originality. TOR and Legacy really suck at that, imho.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Neph, you know how DS gets when I mention that he has a wife? Well that's how I'm getting right now when you talk about Sidious.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yet.And if there were, Vitiate would beat me in line to purchase them.
Vitiate came first chronologically, so Palps obviously is copying his robes.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
So a bad guy has to rob banks and blow things up to be compelling? lol
Of course not, but you do need to engage the audiences emotions. This can be as petty and small as the guy from Titanic being a humungous dick to whatsherface. That makes you actually hate the guy at least. You can't make a villain compelling without having them actually compel the people watching ON-SCREEN.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
We've been through this, bro. Palpatine's patient, calculating subversion of a galactic democracy and orchestration of a major war is about ten billion times more terrifying and dangerous than Joker's pencil tricks and street-level terrorism. The fact that he doesn't make scary faces or find creative uses for writing utensils doesn't mean that what he does is any less compelling or interesting.In other words, you're a guy who's worried about the Ted Kaczynskis and Dzhokhar Tsarnaevs of the world; I'm more concerned with the Josef Stalins and Adolf Hitlers.
Palpatine properly conveyed enough menace because we saw what his actions and decisions did to the rest of the galaxy.
But all of those things are completely sterile and divorced for Sidious to the point where the audience can't be scared by it. The audience isn't terrified by Palpatine starting the Clone Wars because Lucas never bothered to show why its terrifying. Oh no, some ****ing clones are dying? Well thats sucks? Democracy is a soulless entity that the audience has no real investment in seeing continue, and we never see Palpatine really oppress anyone other than in the OT, so seeing him subvert democracy rings hollow. If we'd seen him start to like, force people to join the military or something at least then it would be something. But again, the audience doesn't care because Lucas fails to give them a reason to care.
I'm not worried about either any more than the other. You can do just as good of a job with either character. But Lucas did not do a good job. Sidious is, by the title of the first movie, a Phantom menace. The audience never gets to see him do anything evil up to RotS. The only thing that happens is the vague threat that he's going to do something bad in the future to people we don't care about.
No we didn't! We didn't see ****ing shit! The Clone Wars occur entirely off-camera with the only casualties being droids, clones and faceless Jedi. The entirety of the Clone Wars, with its billions of casualties are a thousand times less compelling as Anakin walking into a room of children and igniting his lightsaber. And we didn't even see him kill them! But it was something real. Those were actual innocent people who got murdered on Palpatines orders. And that scene was much more about Anakin that Sidious.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Of course not, but you do need to engage the audiences emotions. This can be as petty and small as the guy from Titanic being a humungous dick to whatsherface. That makes you actually hate the guy at least. You can't make a villain compelling without having them actually [b]compel the people watching ON-SCREEN.But all of those things are completely sterile and divorced for Sidious to the point where the audience can't be scared by it. The audience isn't terrified by Palpatine starting the Clone Wars because Lucas never bothered to show why its terrifying. Oh no, some ****ing clones are dying? Well thats sucks? Democracy is a soulless entity that the audience has no real investment in seeing continue, and we never see Palpatine really oppress anyone other than in the OT, so seeing him subvert democracy rings hollow. If we'd seen him start to like, force people to join the military or something at least then it would be something. But again, the audience doesn't care because Lucas fails to give them a reason to care.
I'm not worried about either any more than the other. You can do just as good of a job with either character. But Lucas did not do a good job. Sidious is, by the title of the first movie, a Phantom menace. The audience never gets to see him do anything evil up to RotS. The only thing that happens is the vague threat that he's going to do something bad in the future to people we don't care about.
No we didn't! We didn't see ****ing shit! The Clone Wars occur entirely off-camera with the only casualties being droids, clones and faceless Jedi. The entirety of the Clone Wars, with its billions of casualties are a thousand times less compelling as Anakin walking into a room of children and igniting his lightsaber. And we didn't even see him kill them! But it was something real. Those were actual innocent people who got murdered on Palpatines orders. And that scene was much more about Anakin that Sidious. [/B]
Anakin is more evil than Sidious IMO in the PT. Also, aside from killing the Jedi, Sidious isn't any worse than say, Rodrigo Borgia.
Jesus lol. U mad, bro?
1. Palpatine in TPM ordered the invasion and oppression of his home planet, the death of Jedi, manipulated Padme into crippling Valorum's regime, and generally threatened our heroes through Maul. He did plenty of stuff. He just didn't personally, physically harm anyone until ROTS.
2. Nah, I've read plenty of reviews by people over the years who found the subversion of democracy both poignant and compelling. And we actually don't 'see' the Empire oppress anyone in the OT, either; we're just told that they do.
3. I'd say ordering planetary invasions, deaths, etc. is pretty evil?
4. Cool. So we have to have a personal relationship with each and every casualty of the war? lmao
5. Order 66 and the massacre of the Jedi younglings and all the shit that happened in the latter half of ROTS was on Palpatine's order. Anakin was merely the instrument.
6. You're precious when you're angry.