The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Started by Astor Ebligis3,287 pages

Apparently Heroes is coming back!

Dave has beaten TOR before, with at least one or two classes. Not sure what plot holes he's referring to though.

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
Storyline is hardly god awful. I would give KotOR 2 a 9, Kotor 1 a 8.5, and I would give TOR an 8. For an MMO, with the amount of content it has, that is pretty incredible

Of course its advantages are that it has way more content than the single player rpgs (with never ending addition of storyline patches and expansions), group conversations are awesome, and it gives an epic storyline to all 8 class archetypes that you dont get in the single player rpgs (such as the class storyline for the trooper class, or smuggler, where kotors you only get to play as a jedi knight/consular).

Gameplay is much better than the single players, so in some ways I'd argue that TOR is Bioware's best game.

👆

Not sure I'd as far as to say its their best though.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Then how could you deny the inherent superiority in TES?

It was awesome, but the writing wasn't nearly as good as NV. Most of the greatness of Morrowind was in its extremely unique, well-realised setting. In my opinion though NV also has a really great, interesting, fleshed out and believable setting while also have good writing and better gameplay.

Also, Cliff Racers. >:[

Originally posted by NemeBro
Gay.

Gayness is Greatness so cool. 👆

Originally posted by NemeBro
It was okay. Avellone isn't a bad writer, as I've said. Merely one note.

You're an edgemaster Nephthys.

Better than the backstory of any companion in Skyrim, DA2 and maaaybe Origins.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Sometimes they are, yes, but it's still very samey when the majority of the cast is a brooding dysfunctional clown boat.

Well, I disagree. Having so many of the characters in Kotor 2 be broken in some way really reinforced the tone and setting of the game. Kotor 2 is all about a galaxy that has been completely ravaged and is on its last legs. It would be dissonant to the tone to have a chipper character like say Mission.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yes actually, Whedon and Avellone are basically the same guy. Only Whedon laughably thinks himself a feminist icon.

Well, he made some positive steps imo. Also Avellone is a lot.... smarter than Whedon.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Ah, but the brooding sadface moments are what really give him depth. Avellone can't write a deep character without making their lives edgy. Raul is not as bad as, say, Boone in this regard, but it is there.

Edginess =/= Tragedy.

Also, remember that this is Fallout. The setting by itself is pretty tragic and bleak. Most peoples lives are rough as **** in the Wastes.

Originally posted by NemeBro
idc

Well, maybe you should.

Originally posted by NemeBro
She's rendered catatonic by their actions if you make certain choices in the quest, and even then she edgily angsts about it whenever it's brought up.

Pfft. Nah. Like, I literally recruited her a week ago while replaying and she isn't nearly that bad. You're just being all contradictory and dumb.

Originally posted by NemeBro
She's drowning her sorrows because she's brooding over the knowledge that she will have to shut down the caravan that has her name printed on the side.A great source of buttangst for her.

Theres ****all else she can do but get pissed off her ****. She doesn't whine about it or anything.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Naw, she's still buttsad about it, just not overtly. Being proactive does not mean she isn't edgy about it.

x2 combo!

Yeah, it does mean that.

Originally posted by NemeBro
lolgay

Man, I wish. Its not like Visas even has eyes, you wouldn't think she'd care about gender that much.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Or anything at all to explore. She was boring generic action girl. Reminds me of a Whedon show.

She has a bit of insight into Mandalorian and Bounty Hunter stuff.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Who cares?

Jesus.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It deconstructs the nature getting stronger by killing enemies (Grinding, basically) by explicitly noting the protagonist you are controlling is a sociopathic mass murderer, and shows how unstable such a cool young man would have to be in order to do such things.

Compare to "Lawl you eat people's Force".

Nah, thats not a ****ing deconstruction of gameplay. Thats a deconstruction of video game protagonists in general.

Originally posted by NemeBro

Thats crazy nasty.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Dave has beaten TOR before, with at least one or two classes. Not sure what plot holes he's referring to though.

Three classes. We've had this plot hole discussion months ago.

Which three classes?

Sith Inquisitor, Sith Warrior, Jedi Consular, Jedi Knight. Sorry, I meant 4.

Ah, just the Force users, gotcha.

Favorite?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ah, just the Force users, gotcha.

Favorite?

Undoubtedly the Sith Inquisitor/Sorcerer.

None are comparable to the likes of Knights of the Old Republic.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Three classes. We've had this plot hole discussion months ago.

I don't remember it well. Feel free to refresh my mind.

I remember the discussion, I don't remember the specifics.

The single players have a higher quality of storytelling, usually better level design, and better graphics, but that's where their advantages end imo.

TOR on the other hand still has very good storytelling imo, but all of the following advantages:

1. group conversations
2. far more story content (worlds/lore and missions)
3. epic story campaigns for usually overlooked characters (imperial agent, smuggler, trooper, even bounty hunter)
4. much more gameplay content
5. much more strategic and tactical combat interface and mechanics
6. great platform for multiplayer rping and dedicated serves/guilds for that.
7. much more expansive gathering and crafting systems
8. much better and more expansive minigames (pvp warzones, spce combat, and galactic starfighter, and miscellaneous fun like the datacron collection (which involves mad platforming skillz))
9. multiplayer gameplay, and how class archetypes fit into group dynamics, all ranging from pve to pvp, small groups to large operations to giant raids or even single duels.
10. Galactic trade network and the comradrie that guilds bring.
11. Far more expansive in game codex.
12. A lot more.

TOR to me simply offers far more than the single players.

To me, TOR doesn't even begin to compare to KOTOR.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I remember the discussion, I don't remember the specifics.

Well, you're the only person I see absolutely declaring plot holes. I'd hope you could remember a few. I don't remember any, and I've played since beta. The only thing I could consider close would be the Republic prisons of Belsavis, which border on WTF HERO.

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
The single players have a higher quality of storytelling, usually better level design, and better graphics, but that's where their advantages end imo.

TOR on the other hand still has very good storytelling imo, but all of the following advantages:

1. group conversations
2. far more story content (worlds/lore and missions)
3. epic story campaigns for usually overlooked characters (imperial agent, smuggler, trooper, even bounty hunter)
4. much more gameplay content
5. much more strategic and tactical combat interface and mechanics
6. great platform for multiplayer rping and dedicated serves/guilds for that.
7. much more expansive gathering and crafting systems
8. much better and more expansive minigames (pvp warzones, spce combat, and galactic starfighter, and miscellaneous fun like the datacron collection (which involves mad platforming skillz))
9. multiplayer gameplay, and how class archetypes fit into group dynamics, all ranging from pve to pvp, small groups to large operations to giant raids or even single duels.
10. Galactic trade network and the comradrie that guilds bring.
11. Far more expansive in game codex.
12. A lot more.

TOR to me simply offers far more than the single players.

This is pretty great. I totally agree. These are two very different games, two different genres really, that we're talking about. They have different strengths that are inherent in the type of game they are. I love the strength of Kotors story and cast, but I also love the variety and sheer volume of Swtor's stories and casts.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Well, you're the only person I see absolutely declaring plot holes. I'd hope you could remember a few. I don't remember any, and I've played since beta. The only thing I could consider close would be the Republic prisons of Belsavis, which border on WTF HERO.

Tulak Hord.

Tulak Hord was a plot hole thanks to KotOR II and the "HURR HURR LIGHTSABR MASTR" line from Kreia, which blatantly contradicts all EU that preceded it.

Can someone explain to me why Hord is a plot hole? I know of the events that occur with him in KOTOR II, but what changed in TOR?

He fought and killed thousands of Jedi before the Jedi were ever aware of the Sith. Or when it was basically impossible for Jedi and Sith to be fighting.

Which has nothing to do with lightsabers. Thats been thoroughly retconned now since they used lightsabers all the way back in the Force Wars.

Also Khem Val being imprisoned within Sadow's tomb makes no sense.