The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Started by Nephthys3,287 pages

Originally posted by NemeBro
Xenogears and Xenosaga probably do have better stories than the Mass Effect series though.

I mean ME's story is enjoyable, and has a lot of memorable, lovable characters, but does it really challenge the player by asking any difficult, thematically relevant questions, or provoke any sort of deeper thought? No, not really no. Not that I recall anyway.

I thought the Genophage plotline was pretty great and made me think about the ethics behind the situation and where I stand (Pro-Phage). And the Rachni situation was also a fairly challenging choice imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I thought the Genophage plotline was pretty great and made me think about the ethics behind the situation and where I stand (Pro-Phage). And the Rachni situation was also a fairly challenging choice imo.

Don't forget the Quarian/Geth stuff. That just made me sit there, stare at the screen and think about it for a while.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I thought the Genophage plotline was pretty great and made me think about the ethics behind the situation and where I stand (Pro-Phage). And the Rachni situation was also a fairly challenging choice imo.
You know what, I'll go ahead and agree on that one point, that was a pretty decent "Do the ends justify the means in war" plotline that I completely forgot.

The Rachni choice less so, IMO. It's just a matter of whether you believe the queen or not, IIRC.

Originally posted by UltimateAnomaly
Don't forget the Quarian/Geth stuff. That just made me sit there, stare at the screen and think about it for a while.
What's the real-world application though?

Originally posted by NemeBro
What's the real-world application though?

The ***k if I know. I played it all for the blue ass and the multicolored explosions at the end of 3.

Exactly.

The Quarian/Geth thing has a lot of real world applications imo.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The Rachni choice less so, IMO. It's just a matter of whether you believe the queen or not, IIRC.

Maybe, but the Genophage storyline is similarly about whether or not you believe the Krogan can not be huge assholes. I thought the Rachni situation was great because of just how big of a threat they could be and whether it was worth the risk to do the right thing. Plus don't forget that you run into Rachni like 5 times in that game and they're most berserk monsters, making it murkier.

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
To be fair Neph,

1. You only played like a fifth of the game.

2. You're commenting on stuff you didn't experience in the manner in which the storyline was designed for you to experience.

3. I'm guessing you watched a Let's Play, which is hugely different from playing the game.

4. I'm also guessing you went into it with the intention of looking for flaws/indication that it isn't all that great.

So I'd hardly call you impartial, or say you were in the best position to judge the game.

1 And you only played the 1st Mass Effect.

2 + 3: Irrelevant, the story should stand on it's own regardless.

4. No, I went in with you and everyone talking about it being an amazing game and came away with my expectations not met.

Lol. No adjectives. Blax is a baller.

So.. To summarize, and someone correct me if I'm wrong..

Astor refuses believe ME>Xeno because of sheer massive fanwank?

Not that I'm weighing into the debate myself, since I have no bloody clue about Xenoblahblah.

Yes actually, a series having massive amounts of applicability is a heavy point in its favor.

Even a filthy prostitute like Stealth Moose should be able to agree with that.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yes actually, a series having massive amounts of applicability is a heavy point in its favor.

Even a filthy prostitute like Stealth Moose should be able to agree with that.

Depends on how you are assessing the game. If you judge a game by its entertainment value (as I do) than its application to the real world is, more or less, irrelevant.

Go find out who killed your dad, emo kid. ^

Originally posted by ares834
Depends on how you are assessing the game. If you judge a game by its entertainment value (as I do) than its application to the real world is, more or less, irrelevant.
On the whole? Sure.

I am talking only in terms of its story, and applicability is a point in its favor. An entertaining story is also desirable, of course, and the two are not mutually exclusive.

Originally posted by PTforthewin
Go find out who killed your dad, emo kid. ^
I ****ed your mother in the ass with a switchblade while she ate me out. She shits blood now.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yes actually, a series having massive amounts of applicability is a heavy point in its favor.

Even a filthy prostitute like Stealth Moose should be able to agree with that.

But didn't Neb just say that Xenogears is about Oedipus which has long been regarded as utter bullshit by most psychologists? I mean, whats the applicability of an AI wanting to put back together and an omnipresent being from a higher dimension?

Originally posted by NemeBro
I ****ed your mother in the ass with a switchblade while she ate me out. She shits blood now.
You're so ****ing mature, making mommy jokes at me, so great Hahahahahahaha. I also understand how she could eat you out, you have no testicles, you only have a vagina with no holes.

Originally posted by The Renegade
You really cannot. Consistently can be sharp in it's operation, as opposed to steady. You cannot say, or even REMOTELY "accurately project" because you have nothing.

Can you not make an accurate prediction on the event of a boxing match, simply because of the possibility that one of the boxers could have drastically improved since you last saw him, regardless of how unlikely it is?

Of course not. Extreme and sudden changes are not the norm and do not prevent you from making an accurate projection based on norms.

I've played them all, including the Xeno series. My perspectives, judgment, analysis, and opinion are more valuable and accurate than yours right out of the gate. You cannot make comparisons due to a staunch lack of experience with one of the series that you're making comparisons to.

Perhaps if base familiarity with all titles involved was the only factor or a determining one. As it stands, I maintain I can make somewhat of an accurate prediction as to the quality of Mass Effect 2 and 3; I'm familiar with the first game which was made by largely the same people and put into place certain fundamental elements that would remain throughout the series, I can see that ME 1 was received in a comparably favourable manner to 2 and that 3 was widely considered disappointing.

On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me if you hadn't played the Xeno games the number of times I have or researched them to the extent I have (which is practically required for a complete understanding of the games), nor would it surprise me if it had been years since you played them, perhaps when you were a lot younger, closer to when they were first released. Or any number of relevant factors that would colour our perceptions of the games.

And I still don't see why we can't just compare Mass Effect 1 to the Xeno games.

What people "largely hate" or what "critical reception" something receives doesn't change the composition and/or quality of a said work, especially not the former (ad populum much?) so you need to rethink how you, well, think.

Please. I'm not claiming that the critical or public reception is a perfect indication of the game's quality, but it is an indication that can inform the game's quality. You hear great things about something, it motivates you to check it out because you determine that it's probably something great, vice versa with something you hear bad things about. It doesn't make something definitively good or bad, but it is a good indication of it.

Neither of us is in a position to do anything other than offer a limited judgement on the quality of these respective games, so that a method I'm using doesn't tell me definitively how good it is doesn't matter when something that simply gives me a good indication of probably how great it is will suffice.

Especially when I am simply comparing public and critical reception among different entries of the same series (which will possess a number of constants across the board that would not influence subjective ratings, such as the fundamental aspects of the series that underlie each entry).

Saying that public perception serves as a good indicator of how I will probably rate a product =/= ad populum.

Oh, in jest? I'd say that's a bad case of backpedalingitis. Get a prescription, yo!

Please, I think it's fairly obvious that comments like these were clearly made in jest:

"Xenogears, Xenosaga Episodes I-III and Xenoblade >>> anything Bioware or Obsidian have ever done, and you'll be able to add the upcoming Wii U game to that list soon enough. Mass Effect might just about be on par with the Xenosaga cell phone humour based Japanese exclusive spinoff game Xenosaga Freaks. Might be."

I'm sure you can take my word for it that I don't really think a silly random spinoff game that was released exclusively on cell phones in Japan is on par with Mass Effect.

Originally posted by PTforthewin
You're so ****ing mature, making mommy jokes at me, so great Hahahahahahaha. I also understand how she could eat you out, you have no testicles, you only have a vagina with no holes.
"Ha you're a girl!"

Yes I know. Look under my username.

Originally posted by NemeBro
What is wrong My son?

Just surprised, I had thought you were a gigantic ME fangirl.

Originally posted by NemeBro
"Ha you're a girl!"

Yes I know. Look under my username.

Your still an anime loving *****, get off the Star Wars forums.