Originally posted by ares834
It's almost as if a character's quality isn't dependent on their power level.
No shit.
Guess you missed my earlier post about Peter Cushing, whose character didn't exactly blow up Alderaan by way of choke hold.
It just so happens that Kylo is both an ineffective antagonist and a pathetic fighter.
My problem with TFA is it's your typical EU story with the audacity of being a numbered title:
1. Relies completely on coming the OT, to a T.
2. Literally no exposition whatsoever.
3. Main character has mysterious past that no one finds interesting whatsoever until the very end.
4. Random power jumps
That shit's cool and all when it's in a side story when actual plot isn't needed, but it shouldn't be in the episodic, saga movies.
To top it all off, Canon seems to be going in the direction that if you close your eyes long enough, you can just go into the zone and defeat anyone. One thing I liked about AotC that I don't like about TFA or Rebels is that Anakin just loses. Here we have one of the best Jedi in the Order, training since he was ten years old, not be good enough. And he doesn't close his eyes, or gets super focused, or put on a mask, he just loses because all of that training wasn't enough, and neither was his potential, which is far beyond the likes of Kanan and probably Rey, for the most part. But now, we have some of the best in the mythos losing to total novices just because they concentrate long enough, which is annoying.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
My problem with TFA is it's your typical EU story with the audacity of being a numbered title:1. Relies completely on coming the OT, to a T.
2. Literally no exposition whatsoever.
3. Main character has mysterious past that no one finds interesting whatsoever until the very end.
4. Random power jumpsThat shit's cool and all when it's in a side story when actual plot isn't needed, but it shouldn't be in the episodic, saga movies.
To top it all off, Canon seems to be going in the direction that if you close your eyes long enough, you can just go into the zone and defeat anyone. One thing I liked about AotC that I don't like about TFA or Rebels is that Anakin just loses. Here we have one of the best Jedi in the Order, training since he was ten years old, not be good enough. And he doesn't close his eyes, or gets super focused, or put on a mask, he just loses because all of that training wasn't enough, and neither was his potential, which is far beyond the likes of Kanan and probably Rey, for the most part. But now, we have some of the best in the mythos losing to total novices just because they concentrate long enough, which is annoying.
👆
You neglected the underwhelming villains and appalling lack of originality.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
No shit.Guess you missed my earlier post about Peter Cushing, whose character didn't exactly blow up Alderaan by way of choke hold.
It just so happens that Kylo is both an ineffective antagonist and a pathetic fighter.
So then what exactly is "lol" worthy?
It seemed as if you brought up Kylo Ren being a subpar fighter as some sort of negative.
Originally posted by ares834
So then what exactly is "lol" worthy?It seemed as if you brought up Kylo Ren being a subpar fighter as some sort of negative.
Because in this case, it is. Kylo's The Heavy. And since we're returning Star Wars to its ho-hum escapist roots, I shouldn't have to remind you that a villain who's a badass fighter is a staple of fantasy storytelling 101. Villains have to pose a legitimate challenge in one way or another. Lord knows Ren's no intellectual menace like Hans Gruber or anything.
He's just a colossal failure. And his motivation? lol
"I WANNA BE PART OF A GROUP OF MASS MURDERING TERRORISTS FOR REALSIES STOP INTERFERING STAAHHHP"
So edgy. So deep.
Originally posted by FreshestSliceWell unlike Vader and Dooku Kylo Ren is a different kind of villain in the respect that he is untrained, and perhaps more importantly he doesn't simply exist as a foil to the protagonists i.e. an obstacle to overcome.
To top it all off, Canon seems to be going in the direction that if you close your eyes long enough, you can just go into the zone and defeat anyone. One thing I liked about AotC that I don't like about TFA or Rebels is that Anakin just loses. Here we have one of the best Jedi in the Order, training since he was ten years old, not be good enough. And he doesn't close his eyes, or gets super focused, or put on a mask, he just loses because all of that training wasn't enough, and neither was his potential, which is far beyond the likes of Kanan and probably Rey, for the most part. But now, we have some of the best in the mythos losing to total novices just because they concentrate long enough, which is annoying.
He is just as much a developing character, emotionally and physically, as Rey is, and if anything we can turn this on its head. That despite all his training, despite his bloodline, he is still getting beaten, and now he has a impetus to get stronger. So in the respect that the villain is not a static but evolving character I think what TFA has done is quite novel and interesting.
I'm particularly interested to see how Rey and Kylo develop alongside each other, and clash in the future. I think that dynamic has a lot of potential.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well unlike Vader and Dooku Kylo Ren is a different kind of villain
Yeah, an ineffective kind.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
in the respect that he is untrained, and perhaps more importantly he doesn't simply exist as a foil to the protagonists i.e. an obstacle to overcome.He is just as much a developing character, emotionally and physically, as Rey is, and if anything we can turn this on its head. That despite all his training, despite his bloodline, he is still getting beaten. So in the respect that the villain is not a static but evolving character I think what TFA has done is quite novel and interesting.
Believe me, I've read all the excuses and handwaving and apologia the internet has to offer on the disappointment that is Kylo goddamn Ren. I don't need Ren to be a planet-buster or omniscient chessmaster. I don't need him to be static. I don't need him to never show weakness.
I just need him to be a formidable and entertaining baddie.
He's neither.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Because in this case, it is. Kylo's The Heavy. And since we're returning Star Wars to its ho-hum escapist roots, I shouldn't have to remind you that a villain who's a badass fighter is a staple of fantasy storytelling 101. Villains have to pose a legitimate challenge in one way or another. Lord knows Ren's no intellectual menace like Hans Gruber or anything.
You're main problem with the film seems to be it's lack of originality. Fair enough. But then, we have a character who subverts a fantasy trope and suddenly that's a bad thing?
Anyway, he was formidable throughout the film. It's only at the end, when Rey pulls lightsaber training out of her ass that she can defeat him.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
He's just a colossal failure. And his motivation? lol"I WANNA BE PART OF A GROUP OF MASS MURDERING TERRORISTS FOR REALSIES STOP INTERFERING STAAHHHP"
So edgy. So deep.
His motivation is that he is a power hungry bastard like virtually every other Star Wars villain.