The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

To be fair Skillz, everyone shot like shit in that Game 7. Rondo, Pau, KG, PP, etc. Meta World Peace was the only one that shot great from the field, tbh. But Kobe made up for that with: stellar defense, clutch free-throw shooting, and about 17 rebounds - which is ****ing insane. Also, from a stat stand point - Kobe shot better against that year Celtic team than LeBron did, so there is that.

You also skipped over the leadership point. Kobe made sure he got the absolute best out of his teammates, while LeBron played around like kids on the playground when they won, and said jack shit when they lost.

Regarding Magic: I dunno, Lebron coming back this series the way he was able to is one of the best accomplishments in NBA History, bar none. Lebron's a better score, inferior passer, on par rebounder, and vastly superior defender.

I wouldn't say Duncan individually affected the game more than Lebron, all things considered. Duncan was a better defender and obviously a better rebounder, but that's it. Lebron's the much superior scorer and passer.

Shaq's Lakers numbers are inferior to Lebron's numbers. Heck, all of the people mentioned above have vastly inferior stats to Lebron.

You also skipped over the leadership point. Kobe made sure he got the absolute best out of his teammates, while LeBron played around like kids on the playground when they won, and said jack shit when they lost.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
To be fair Skillz, everyone shot like shit in that Game 7. Rondo, Pau, KG, PP, etc. Meta World Peace was the only one that shot great from the field, tbh. But Kobe made up for that with: stellar defense, clutch free-throw shooting, and about 17 rebounds - which is ****ing insane. Also, from a stat stand point - Kobe shot better against that year Celtic team than LeBron did, so there is that.

You also skipped over the leadership point. Kobe made sure he got the absolute best out of his teammates, while LeBron played around like kids on the playground when they won, and said jack shit when they lost.

Sure, but that doesn't wish away shooting 6-24. And if you want to argue numbers, Lebron's from 08-10 are so vastly superior to Kobe's in the same years, it blows my freaking mind. It's like comparing an all star to a scrub, no joke.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Magic was a better leader with better intangibles. And again, I thought GSW was overrated in these playoffs. They got two easy series in the beginning and OKC should have finished them off as well. But all the criticisms I've had about Lebron over the years are pretty much put to rest. He's still not MJ but that's ok.

Look at Duncan's finals averages in 2003, 2005, 2007.

Shaq's Lakers numbers are superior to Lebron's. Better scorer and better rebounder.

Kobe was actually a huge dick to his teammates and that's why he almost never got the best out of them. That's the huge difference between him and MJ. MJ learned to trust Phil and his teammates and that was all she wrote. Kobe refused to do it anyway but his own way and benefitted by historically great teams.

I agree that Magic is a better leader with better intangibles, but I just don't see him as better than Lebron in any realistic capacity. And even if GS is overrated or what have you, but that doesn't change them being a 73-9 team with the unanimous MVP, and coming back being down 3-1.

I agree, Duncan is as clutch as it gets, (to me he's the Finals God other than Jordan,) but looking at his whole body of work, his statistical and eye-test dominance doesn't quite rival Lebron's.

The difference in scoring is negligible, Shaq is the better rebounder, Lebron better passer and defender, and has better advanced stats across the board. You're making me think about putting Shaq in my top 5, though. mmm

Kobe was actually a huge dick to his teammates and that's why he almost never got the best out of them.

During the repeat run, Kobe WAS a good leader. His effect on the team was visible (you would see him coordinating them during timeouts, etc), and they seemingly liked playing with him.
I believe Phil Jackson himself commented on Kobe's leadership during that period was pretty tight.

I admit, he wasn't so much before, tho

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Sure, but that doesn't wish away shooting 6-24. And if you want to argue numbers, Lebron's from 08-10 are so vastly superior to Kobe's in the same years, it blows my freaking mind. It's like comparing an all star to a scrub, no joke.

Yeah....buuuut I still say it wasn't as bad as it looked on paper. That Celtic team was one of the greatest ever defensively, or, at least, in the 2000's and up.

Not really arguing against the numbers; I just think Kobe's intangibles during that period outwieghs LeGod statistical dominance. However abitrary and bias, you view my stance though, is up to you.

Meh. If you put Lebron on those Lakers, they're winning rings PAST 2010. Cavs wouldn't make the playoffs, period, or they would barely as an 8th seed.

What exactly did LeBron do when he did get a worthy team during that time period? Right, he chocked against the Mavs in a emphatic fashion. 👆

Context. Put Lebron on the 08 Lakers and he gets competitive Finals experience...and the Lebron/Gasol/Odom/Bynum dynasty begins.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
What exactly did LeBron do when he did get a worthy team during that time period? Right, he chocked against the Mavs in a emphatic fashion. 👆

Hypothetical bullshit that can't be proven either way, homie. 🙂

If LeBron had played even somewhat decent in the fourth, and they would have stomped that series. Instead, he folded and was dogged by JT, kek.

Do you finally accept Lebron into your heart, Quan? Top 5 player ever? 🙂

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Hypothetical bullshit that can't be proven either way, homie. 🙂

If LeBron had played even somewhat decent in the fourth, and they would have stomped that series. Instead, he folded and was dogged by JT, kek.

Idc, I already know you put Lebron in your top 4 prior to this ring. 🙂

Originally posted by quanchi112
He isn't perfect nor was Kobe. The only perfect player was Jordan. Lebron did come back from 3-1 to beat the 73 win team in epic fashion. They had to win in the oracle twice. Epic.

Bruh, I ain't even arguing Kobe > LeBron as a whole. I'm arguing pre-Heat LeBron vs repeat Kobe.
As a whole, LeBron is top 3-4, while Kobe is 9, tbh.

Originally posted by ghostman

3 titles

3 finals mvps

4 mvps

Won titles with two different teams

With 2 coaches

Won a title by building his own team

Beat a 73-9 team.

Bow down for the legend. The once and future king. A top 3 player of all time. The king.

Call him a choke artist all you want. Resume doesn't lie.

Call him a loser all you want. Resume doesn't lie.

Call him a ring chaser all you want. He just brought a championship to a franchise that was garbage without him.

Call him whatever. Your eyes don't lie no matter what your heart says. This man is a top 3 player ever.

kobe aint doing that

👆 👆 👆

I have a question: is Oscar Robertson better than Kobe Bryant or Larry Bird?

Nah.
Big O was kinda a playoff choker, and a more shitty teammate than Kobe pre-repeat.

I have indeed heard the stories that Oscar Robertson was an Omega-Level Douchebag. Though Oscar is my 11th, and I'm wondering if he should be 10th or even 9th. Dude pretty much dominated every phase of the game. mmm

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Holy Fug 🙂:

watch?v=dbL-NSkXnl8

True, true...mmm

Where do you rank The Logo?