Originally posted by PetrusMontana is. Never threw an int in a Super Bowl. Never needed a clutch kicker to help him win his first three rings and never lost to a 9-7 and 10-6 team in the sbowl. Montana won with a 10-6 team after driving down the field to score in Td to win the game. The rules also protect the QB a lot more now than they did back then so stats are obviously going to be better.
Yeah there's really no debating Brady is the best QB of all time. He has it all: rings, stats, wins, leadership, clutch and more than 15 years in the league.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Montana is. Never threw an int in a Super Bowl. Never needed a clutch kicker to help him win his first three rings and never lost to a 9-7 and 10-6 team in the sbowl. Montana won with a 10-6 team after driving down the field to score in Td to win the game. The rules also protect the QB a lot more now than they did back then so stats are obviously going to be better.
Never throwing an int in a SB doesn't mean you have a better career lol, in any case Brady reached 2 more SBs than Montana and he has been dominating the league for more than a decade with different players surrounding him. He has ridiculous stats, he is clutch, he has the wins, he's a leader, he has 4 rings.
And the kicker argument is bullshit. That's like saying Favre never needed a great WR to win him a game or that Peyton never needed a great RB. The QB doesn't win the big game alone, obviously. The fact is thanks to Brady's plays and actions during the game, Vinatieri had the chance to score the game-winning kicks.
And the record of a team means shit when the playoffs start, so that's beyond irrelevant.
The rule thing is no excuse. Montana dominated his era, Brady dominated his own even more.
Originally posted by PetrusOk, let's ignore spy gate which definitely contributed to those closer first three sbowls. It was so bad the NFL burned the evidence as to not affect the overall integrity of the league. He's also had a hall of fame coach there the entire time and possibly the greatest TE of all time. Let's forget about deflate gate too. These are times he's looked at as a cheater as had the entire organization. This taints his legacy as well as the organization.
Never throwing an int in a SB doesn't mean you have a better career lol, in any case Brady reached 2 more SBs than Montana and he has been dominating the league for more than a decade with different players surrounding him. He has ridiculous stats, he is clutch, he has the wins, he's a leader, he has 4 rings.And the kicker argument is bullshit. That's like saying Favre never needed a great WR to win him a game or that Peyton never needed a great RB. The QB doesn't win the big game alone, obviously. The fact is thanks to Brady's plays and actions during the game, Vinatieri had the chance to score the game-winning kicks.
And the record of a team means shit when the playoffs start, so that's beyond irrelevant.
The rule thing is no excuse. Montana dominated his era, Brady dominated his own even more.
The kicker won them pivotal games and sbowls. Vinatieri was legendary in his clutchness. Both have four sbowls. Montana did it better. The catch, played against some of the best defenses of all time, and played in an era which didn't protect the QB nor did the rules cater to the offensive side of the ball.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok, let's ignore spy gate which definitely contributed to those closer first three sbowls.
Dude, that doesn't at all detract from Brady's showings, leadership, passes made, etc. He playing good in the games is fact, regardless of Spy Gate. And I think the rest of his career contributes to my point, because as you know and have no choice but to accept, he has been an exceptional player circumstances notwithstanding.
It was so bad the NFL burned the evidence as to not affect the overall integrity of the league. He's also had a hall of fame coach there the entire time and possibly the greatest TE of all time. Let's forget about deflate gate too. These are times he's looked at as a cheater as had the entire organization. This taints his legacy as well as the organization.
Do you have evidence the NFL burned the evidence?
Having a good coach is part of winning, you know. No matter how good a QB you are, you most likely won't be winning the big game more than once without a good head coach. That's honestly neither here nor there, and as if Bill Walsh wasn't great, anyway. He's had Gronk for less than half of his career, so that's not helping your argument considering he did better than fine before he was even in the picture. But you went there, so I'll just say Montana had Jerry Rice. 🙂
The kicker won them pivotal games and sbowls. Vinatieri was legendary in his clutchness. Both have four sbowls. Montana did it better. The catch, played against some of the best defenses of all time, and played in an era which didn't protect the QB nor did the rules cater to the offensive side of the ball.
Oh yeah, I guess Brady winning 3 SB MVPs means shit because your kicker is so clutch. 😕
Originally posted by PetrusIf the entire organization gained an advantage then yes it does detract from their victories and showings. I have seen multiple players from the league speak to the image of this organization as cheaters. That tarnishes everything in the years those victories were achieved and has already stained their reputation.
Dude, that doesn't at all detract from Brady's showings, leadership, passes made, etc. He playing good in the games is fact, regardless of Spy Gate. And I think the rest of his career contributes to my point, because as you know and have no choice but to accept, he has been an exceptional player circumstances notwithstanding.Do you have evidence the NFL burned the evidence?
Having a good coach is part of winning, you know. No matter how good a QB you are, you most likely won't be winning the big game more than once without a good head coach. That's honestly neither here nor there, and as if Bill Walsh wasn't great, anyway. He's had Gronk for less than half of his career, so that's not helping your argument considering he did better than fine before he was even in the picture. But you went there, so I'll just say Montana had Jerry Rice. 🙂
Oh yeah, I guess Brady winning 3 SB MVPs means shit because your kicker is so clutch. 😕
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/16/sports/football/16spy.html?_r=0
Montana didn't have Rice for all of his sbowl victories. I didn't say he isn't great I said he's a cheater and there have been two scandals and this latest one centered about his deflated balls. That's an advantage and he claimed complete innocence which is completely ridiculous. He's a cheater. We are splitting hairs here and I am saying Montana doesn't have two huge cheating scandals tarnishing victories. Every year the pats won there have been cheating scandals. Food for thought. Great coaching helps.
Originally posted by Petrus
Never throwing an int in a SB doesn't mean you have a better career lol, in any case Brady reached 2 more SBs than Montana and he has been dominating the league for more than a decade with different players surrounding him. He has ridiculous stats, he is clutch, he has the wins, he's a leader, he has 4 rings.And the kicker argument is bullshit. That's like saying Favre never needed a great WR to win him a game or that Peyton never needed a great RB. The QB doesn't win the big game alone, obviously. The fact is thanks to Brady's plays and actions during the game, Vinatieri had the chance to score the game-winning kicks.
And the record of a team means shit when the playoffs start, so that's beyond irrelevant.
The rule thing is no excuse. Montana dominated his era, Brady dominated his own even more.
Brady also has the best coach in NFL history. Having two more superbowls doesn't mean you're better, especially when you lost both. That's like saying Lebron>Jordan because he's played in more finals. Who cares? Montana has been more consistent throughout his career, he's 4-0 in superbowls, he's the best.
Tarnished legacy. Montana is the G.O.A.T.
Originally posted by Deronn_soloThat isn't Montana cheating. We have Brady being denied and he will be forced to serve the four game suspension. Two scandals, various other organizations, players, ex players all agreeing the pats are cheaters. Their legacy is tainted. There's no way around it. Montana is the GOAT.
Deflategate was proven to be bullshit, lmao. But lets talk about Jerry Rice cheating by using Stickum on his hands, despite the League banning it for years. 😂
Originally posted by Deronn_soloWe had other Pats caught for cheating as well but we are discussing two specific players. I cited one cheating scandal which centered around Brady he will serve a suspension for. I can post more articles besmirching their legacy but this is subjective comparing eras anyways.
Doesn't matter --- Jerry Rice was catching a lot of those balls for Montana, and I'm pretty sure Joe would tell you himself he wouldn't have as many rings as he does, without Jerry. 👆
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Nah, your cases are/were cancer. 😂Brady has just as many rings, more wins, better stats, done more with less, etc. Accept it, and move on. 👆
He didn't do more with less, Montana's playoff stats are better throughout his career. He went undefeated in the Super Bowl, he's the best. Accept it and move on 😂
Brady and Manning are probably just objectively superior quarterbacks to Montana if you look at their game film.