Originally posted by Nephthys
We use no more 'admitted speculation' than your theory on Palpatines mystical black hole powers(tm).
Which, by your line of reasoning, is perfectly reasonable. Count Dooku is far more of an expert on the Force than, say, Colonel Tobin. In fact, I'd say he's more of an expert on the Force given his decades of training from Jedi and Sith Masters than even Visas. Yet what they say is undeniable fact, whereas the good Count is simply exaggerating.
N.
Everything is sourced and has a logical basis and line of reasoning, leading up to a logical conclusion. And I find it highly unlikely that we've ever admitted to speculation and then claimed it as fact considering the contadiction inherent in doing that. 😐
Hardly.
Exhibit A - Z, right here, in the fleshtext. Zamp's conclusions are based entirely off two lines that were summarily addressed by yours truly. Visas's line is utter speculation and Kreia is referencing more than one Lord of the Sith. You seem to support this line of thought unequivocally; explain to me, then, how Nihilus is logically the most cosmically influential figure in the mythos based on these two lines.
would be skeptical of her views regarding Nihilus' power for the same reason I would be about her views on Revan. She was teacher and master to two very powerful and influential people, her descriptions of the two of them smack of pride.
Pride doesn't cause one to lie. It causes you to brag and perhaps exaggerate, but not make up the attributes of a technique for absolutely no reason.
Originally posted by RagingBoner
Which, by your line of reasoning, is perfectly reasonable. Count Dooku is far more of an expert on the Force than, say, Colonel Tobin. In fact, I'd say he's more of an expert on the Force given his decades of training from Jedi and Sith Masters than even Visas. Yet what they say is undeniable fact, whereas the good Count is simply exaggerating.Hardly.
Exhibit A - Z, right here, in the
fleshtext. Zamp's conclusions are based entirely off two lines that were summarily addressed by yours truly. Visas's line is utter speculation and Kreia is referencing more than one Lord of the Sith. You seem to support this line of thought unequivocally; explain to me, then, how Nihilus is logically the most cosmically influential figure in the mythos based on these two lines.
Yes, I can see it thank you. 😐
Which, by your line of reasoning, is perfectly reasonable. Count Dooku is far more of an expert on the Force than, say, Colonel Tobin. In fact, I'd say he's more of an expert on the Force given his decades of training from Jedi and Sith Masters than even Visas. Yet what they say is undeniable fact, whereas the good Count is simply exaggerating.
He's also in utter awe of the guy as you yourself have bragged about more than enough. Plus the high ambiguity of his highly ambiguous statements are highly suspect.
They are stating facts about Nihilus' state of being, Dooku is waxing poetically about how l33t his mistress is.
Exhibit A - Z, right here, in the fleshtext.
That leads to the Dooku vs Arca Jeth/Qel-Droma thread. 😐
Originally posted by Nephthys
He's also in utter awe of the guy as you yourself have bragged about more than enough.
N.
Pride doesn't cause one to lie. It causes you to brag and perhaps exaggerate, but not make up the attributes of a technique for absolutely no reason.
N.
Plus the ambiguity of his highly ambiguous statements are highly suspect.
But there's never any ambiguity as regards Nihilus, right?
N.
They are stating facts about Nihilus' state of being, Dooku is waxing poetically about how l33t his mistress is.
This sounds uncomfortably like "it's wrong cuz i say so." Try something else.
N.
That leads to the Dooku vs Arca Jeth/Qel-Droma thread. 😐
Originally posted by truejedi
i'm not even sure what you are talking about.. I just responded to the part about believing Kreia, so that's why i didn't read the goddamn words... what claim are you discussing?
That the Exile's ability and that of Nihilus are one and the same. The Jedi Council echoes Kreia's sentiments.
Nihilus was intended to be the Exile's metaphysical shadow, created when her connection to the Force was cut. According to Avellone, Nihilus was literally supposed to be her other half, whatever the f*ck that means.
It's noncanon now, but it might explain the relation that Avellone intended between the Exile and Nihilus.
Originally posted by truejedi
oh, i thought we were talking about the whole "killing the force" thing again.
He and I are. It's the crux of the issue: Neph is pointing fingers and getting terribly irritated with people who don't raise their hands and agree to his interpretation of everything. I want to see where we can compromise on the use of fallible third party quotes, because right now it just seems like he and Zamp. and others are okay with quotes if and only if it supports somebody they like.
Originally posted by Lucius
Nihilus was intended to be the Exile's metaphysical shadow, created when her connection to the Force was cut. According to Avellone, Nihilus was literally supposed to be her other half, whatever the f*ck that means.It's noncanon now, but it might explain the relation that Avellone intended between the Exile and Nihilus.
The common thought here back when we first showed up as that Nihilus was the Exile's shade, hence why he disappeared, his connection to Kreia and Visas, etc. It certainly was plausible, but they retconned it.
Originally posted by RagingBoner[/quote][quote=Nephthys] He's also in utter awe of the guy as you yourself have bragged about more than enough.
quote:
N.
Pride doesn't cause one to lie. It causes you to brag and perhaps exaggerate, but not make up the attributes of a technique for absolutely no reason.
Pride /=/ being someones *****. Dooku was Palpatines toady and practically worshipped the man. He could easily overestimate Palptines personal abilities (which he likely rarely ever saw demonstrated given Palpatines restrictive position) and assign him godlike powers for little reason.
But there's never any ambiguity as regards Nihilus, right?
I have already said that there is and would be happy to discuss anything you find suspect about things attributed to him.
This sounds uncomfortably like "it's wrong cuz i say so." Try something else.
Well then you are clearly misconstruing my point. I was pointing out teh difference between a highly ambiguous and hyperbolic statement like '[b]HE WAS THE SHADOW!' as compared to something plainly factual like 'the technique works like this: [insert explanation]'.
Once more, with feeling. [/B]
Last I checked Zam also used alot of logical reasoning to back up the evidence.
Plus I really couldn't care less about the glorified pissing contest about which Sith was more 'influential.' My sticks bigger than yours!
He and I are. It's the crux of the issue: Neph is pointing fingers and getting terribly irritated with people who don't raise their hands and agree to his interpretation of everything.
Excuse me but no I'm not. crackers
You asked for a source, I provided it. You then started bitching about me 'speculating' to which I corrected you. You pointed the first finger when you started bitching about a completely unrelated topic, so frankly you can piss right the hell off mister!
Originally posted by Nephthys
Pride /=/ being someones *****. Dooku was Palpatines toady and practically worshipped the man. He could easily overestimate Palptines personal abilities (which he likely rarely ever saw demonstrated given Palpatines restrictive position) and assign him godlike powers for little reason.
Your rationalization is fvcked up beyond words. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're telling me that Visas Marr and Colonel Tobin, a wannabe Sith neophyte and someone who's Force training has never been established are experts on a guy who literally Force fvcked their minds, but Count Dooku is not an expert for being mightily impressed with a guy?
You have literally just put two people who amount to zombies as more credible than Count Dooku? Are you fvcking kidding me?
N.
Last I checked Zam also used alot of logical reasoning to back up the evidence.
No, Zam used a lot of words. When I pointed out the speculation and asked for sources, he gave nothing but his opinion.
N.
Plus I really couldn't care less about the glorified pissing contest about which Sith was more 'influential.' My sticks bigger than yours!
You seem to support it. So again, where is the distinction? Because your evasion makes it seem like you're hopelessly biased.
Your rationalization is fvcked up beyond words. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're telling me that Visas Marr and Colonel Tobin, a wannabe Sith neophyte and someone who's Force training has never been established are experts on a guy who literally Force fvcked their minds, but Count Dooku is not an expert for being mightily impressed with a guy?You have literally just put two people who amount to zombies as more credible than Count Dooku? Are you fvcking kidding me?
'Force Fvcked their minds'? What the ****? They have fvcking force bonds with the guy! How teh hell does that make them unreliable?
'Amount to zombie' what the CHRIST?
No, Zam used a lot of words. When I pointed out the speculation and asked for sources, he gave nothing but his opinion.
I really don't care.
You seem to support it.
No, I really don't care.
Edit: look I'm happy to admit that Tobin, Kreia and Visas's words should be taken with a grain of salt and examine logically before we accept them, but I'm not going to throw them away just because you guys can't handle thinking through something.
Dookus quote can suck my dick though. Black hole in the Force my fvcking ass!