DOA vs Tekken

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Since when was Jin using the same throws outside of Tekken 3 and as Devil Jin? Provide evidence that these are the exact same throws. Point is, I have provided evidence to the exact same moves, how they are done and where to find them. Also, Jin had frigging heaps of other uppercuts and moves they could have used in DW, why would they use the lunging uppercut that he hasn't used since Tekken 3? I'm serious, I want an answer to this question and not some runnaround to avoid answering it.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

And what makes any of your evidence any less hilarious? you used Wiki as a source for crying out loud... 🙄

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

You missed the point entirely here, I said it's possible that the close would chance since it's happened before with the Devil transformation, this point you've yet to address at all says more than any of your 20 page rants.

Remember, Jin was not fully taken by the Devil gene when he fought Heihachi, if that where the case, Jin would not hesitate to kill him, you know this I assume?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Bullshit... Jin was an amalgamation of Kazuya and Jun with some unique moves thrown in, Asuka is an upgraded Jun with all the attacks present and accounted for. Jin was introduced in Kazuya's absesnce, there, but why would Kazuya make a comeback, but Jun still be absent if she isn't dead?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Prove he is not dead, he's been absent from 2 games across a number of years, and as stated, without michelles Amulet, Ogre cannot be ressurected.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

You have to prove that she is in fact NOT dead, the general consensus was that Jun was oficially dead after tekken 2, killed at the hands of Ogre, she is as Dead as Kunnimitsu is, there is no dispute over this, and for you to cling onto faint hope to support your claim is childish, unless you have proof.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

No, Jin did seek out Jinpachi to rid the world of the Devil gene, where else is he going to look for it? certainly not within Ogre... heihachi never awakened to the Devil... No, he went straight to the source, the guy who became the source of the Devil gene long before Kazuya ever got it... Jinpachi. Now, if you are going to bring in non-canon evidence to support your claim for Devil Withinto BE Canon, and using Devil Jin's ending as a medium to contradict my point, then at least do it with a bit of research... Devil Jin is NOT Jin, it's Devil Jin, the personality is COMPLETELY different. Devil Jin seeks the rawest, most powerful form of the Devil Power (Hmm, ever considered that this is the reason for Devil Jin to siphon Jinpachi's power?). Whereas Jin seeks to rid himself of the devil genes curse, and what better way to do that than destroying the very source of that power?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

I ask anyone to compare our two arguments and draw their own conclusion as to wether DW is Canon for Tekken. My proof is plainly avalable to anyone who plays the game, you base yours on a series of assumpltions with no proof to back them up. I ask again, PROVIDE EVIDENCE TO BACK YOUR EXPLANATIONS.

I base myself on simple logic where you base your self on your own mistakes. Lets see all your "proofs".
1) Wrong fighting style.
2) Wrong clothes.
3) Jun dead.
4) Ogre dead.

So
1) You are clearly mistaken and EVERYONE who played DW and know what traditional karate is know that you are mistaken and that he fights in traditional art of karate, but instead of accepting that you "proved" that story mode is not canon. 😂 way to go.
2) You are mistaken again, he has right clothes and the same as during story mode that is by your logic is not canon.
3) The only "proof" you offer is Asuka in tekken 5 and if we follow this logic it means Kazuya was supposed to be dead now, and you offer ARCADE video with councious Kazuya, and dark siluet of Ogre holding something dark and big in his hand and there are two problems in it a) It might be anything else but it doesn't looks like Jun's head and b) it is non canon arcade video (not intro as you was saying before) with councious Kazuya who was supposed to be in Volcano then.
4) Ogre was defeated by Jin and dissapeared, and it doesn't proves that Jin killed such powerfull being with his bare hands during the fight, especially since Ogre was gone then and it is said that Heihachi couldn't capture him.
Go ahead and ask anyone to compare our arguments, the problem is that your arguments #1,2 are just your mistakes and #3,4 you can't prove.

well Gon just makes that all look like bull poo or should i say Gon poo 😆 😆 get in ...no ....oh well i try

Originally posted by Krone
alryt i no alot of the people who think DOA wins mite be upset but his is why Tekken wins by a mile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESNQAUoEp1A&search=Gon%20tekken

lol
Why seagull is bigger than bear?

it doesnt matter why it just proves tekken is the best END OF! unless DOA has a character like gon?!

Not in a million years.😂

I may be new but I've been browsing these forums for a while. If you want another opinion, I say Ryu Hayabusa hands down. Yes, I've read and informed of the techniques of DoA and Tekken Characters, Dead or Alive would be the victor.

( Didn't Hworang beat Jin in the Tekken 6 trailer, anyway? I don't recall him having supernatural powers. )

PM me, Blue Nocturne / Emperor Ash Ketchum, whatever.

BUT WHAT ABOUT GON!?

Genra. Tengu. Alpha 152.

DOA doesn't need a character like Gon.

It has a Spartan 😛

Originally posted by Sam Z
During story mode press (square+X), Jin will perform throw that Kazuya was using since tekken 1, that Jin was using in tekken 3. So it is a "trademark" mishima style throw, so tekken 5 story mode is NOT canon because he unlearned it in tekken 4. Sorry Darkstorm but it is your own briliant logic. Making jumping uppercought according to you means using noncanon mishima style move and actually it is just a simple attack and using it doesn't mean anything just like the throw I was talking about. So again, he uses traditional karate, you tried to dissprove it and horribly failed. Accpt it.

What? At least I'm not trying to prove that Tekken 5 story mode is not canon unlike you. By your logic that throw proves it, just like an uppercought in DW 🙄

Excuses Darkstorm. First you said he wears wrong clothes, even though it is not. Then you say that clothes is supposed to change with transformation even though it never happened with Jin before. You are so consumed with Idea of proving me wrong that you even lie sometimes. The fact remains. In DW Jin has clothes as devil Jin during story mode because in it we fight as Jin and as devil jin and they desided to use this clothes for him. So your "wrong clothes" proof failed as well.

Exactly, bullshit. Almost all Jin's moves were the same as Kazuya's, just like Asuka's moves same as Jun's. So by your logic Kazuya was supposed to be dead now because they brought Jin. So Asuka in the tournament is a very weak argument to prove that Jun is dead.

Bruce Irvin was absent for two games too, so it automatically makes him dead?

Show me where it is oficially said that she is dead. There was NO body found so she might not be dead, it is not hope that makes me think so because I'm not a big fan of her but it is just a typical thing for tekken games to bring back missing characters.

It is not yet canon as well that Jin killed Jinpachi, besides even if he did, why then he didn't got rid of devil gene? Makes a lot of sense, he searched for him for that but instead became a evil mishi zaibatsu leader and devil gene remained within him.

I base myself on simple logic where you base your self on your own mistakes. Lets see all your "proofs".
1) Wrong fighting style.
2) Wrong clothes.
3) Jun dead.
4) Ogre dead.

So
1) You are clearly mistaken and EVERYONE who played DW and know what traditional karate is know that you are mistaken and that he fights in traditional art of karate, but instead of accepting that you "proved" that story mode is not canon. 😂 way to go.
2) You are mistaken again, he has right clothes and the same as during story mode that is by your logic is not canon.
3) The only "proof" you offer is Asuka in tekken 5 and if we follow this logic it means Kazuya was supposed to be dead now, and you offer [B]ARCADE video with councious Kazuya, and dark siluet of Ogre holding something dark and big in his hand and there are two problems in it a) It might be anything else but it doesn't looks like Jun's head and b) it is non canon arcade video (not intro as you was saying before) with councious Kazuya who was supposed to be in Volcano then.
4) Ogre was defeated by Jin and dissapeared, and it doesn't proves that Jin killed such powerfull being with his bare hands during the fight, especially since Ogre was gone then and it is said that Heihachi couldn't capture him.
Go ahead and ask anyone to compare our arguments, the problem is that your arguments #1,2 are just your mistakes and #3,4 you can't prove. [/B]

Heheheheheh... I know it's been ages since I've posted here, but Samo, looking at the arguments you've posted here, it's really funny you lasted that long.

Look at Ogre's entry in Wikipedia, the infamous source that you use, oh and while your there, read up on the Devil Within Entry in Jin and Devil Jin's profile too, both entires say that DW cannot be taken as canon until proof is provided.

#1: No, I actually proved that Jin is using a grotesquely misplaced technique, all the rest are used in storyu mode, but that one move is one he shouldn't posess.

#2: Interesting, since his clothes did change in Asukas ending..... my eyes must be playing tricks...

#3: No, it only supports what I said, and that is that Jun is dead, and Kazuya had plot installed to bring him back.

#4: Unfortunately for you, it's a fact that Ogre is not a God. Legends say Ogre was an ancient war weapon left behind by aliens many years ago. He later was worshipped by the Aztec as a God of Fighting.

I never knew you would go for culturalistic propaganda.

You base yourself on simple logic eh?......... Simple logic dictates one to eliminate all false possabilities before claiming anything as fact.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Heheheheheh... I know it's been ages since I've posted here, but Samo, looking at the arguments you've posted here, it's really funny you lasted that long.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Look at Ogre's entry in Wikipedia, the infamous source that you use, oh and while your there, read up on the Devil Within Entry in Jin and Devil Jin's profile too, both entires say that DW cannot be taken as canon until proof is provided.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

#1: No, I actually proved that Jin is using a grotesquely misplaced technique, all the rest are used in storyu mode, but that one move is one he shouldn't posess.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

#2: Interesting, since his clothes did change in Asukas ending..... my eyes must be playing tricks...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

#3: No, it only supports what I said, and that is that Jun is dead, and Kazuya had plot installed to bring him back.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

#4: Unfortunately for you, it's a fact that Ogre is not a God. Legends say Ogre was an ancient war weapon left behind by aliens many years ago. He later was worshipped by the Aztec as a God of Fighting.

I never knew you would go for culturalistic propaganda.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

You base yourself on simple logic eh?......... Simple logic dictates one to eliminate all false possabilities before claiming anything as fact.

Can't believe you guys are still going at it...

I only hope this does not become the predecessor to the Ryu vs Link thread...although that may be my fault...

*Cough*

DOA definitly has better and hotter women and better graphics,but its draw tekken has alot of kick as fighters,but DOA has ryu hayabusa.i dont see any 1 from tekken beating him plus the others from DOA rnt bad either,its a dead even match

Originally posted by Sam Z
First of all i do not use Wikipedia as my source, i only mentioned it once like year ago and since then you for some reason stuck with it, and now after so much time you suggest me to use source that according to you is complete bullsh!t.

The thing is that not only have your arguments not changed since then, but you have not posted any other sources at all, so one has to assume that Wiki is the only source you have. If you have ANY other source at all, Anything that backs up your argument, then please post it.

Originally posted by Sam Z
No, you only proved that tekken 5 story mode is not canon and that's kinda strange. You based yourself on one move that is just a simple uppercought that is even performed by other characters and used it as a proof that he uses mishima fighting style. So by this logic: one different move = non canon story, it means that grab proves same about story mode. That's what you mistake is about. So i say that one move doesn not mean using mishima style and one move doesn't prove that story is not canon and i back it up with story mode.

Uh no, dude, your again seeing only what you want to see, I proved that DW is not canon. roger jr does not use the thunder godfist, he uses a similar technique, but it's not the same, notable differences including positioning of the body, the arm swing and the damage difference all point to it being a mere carbon copy. your grab argument is out of context for what I was trying to prove. If this is Jin set after Tekken 4, he should only be using the moves he had in Tekken 4 and 5, why bring in an attack that he hasn't used since Tekken 3? I am waiting for an appropreate explanation, and no "It is a correct technique in traditional Karate" is not a rebuke, it's a copout. I want to hear WHY Jin is not using one of his actual official moves out of the 120+ moves he has in storymode.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Must be... because in Asuka's ending after he turned back into Jin he had same clothes - black pants with red flames, same as devil's. And his clothes NEVER changed before when he was turning into devil. So there is nothing wrong with him wearing this clothes in DW since he had to wear something and as this something authors chose clothes of devil jin since we fight as both jin and devil.

And yet, when he does his faceplant right bitween her ****, he's wearing his white flames and white gloves... odd... maybe we're playing different versions of the game... are you playing the NTSC version? I'm using the AUS PAL version.

Originally posted by Sam Z
So? Kazuya had plot but it doesn't mean Jun's dead. Again, bringing simillar characters instead of someone and then bringing back this someone is nothing new for namco.

Becuase it kills the premise of Jins story entirely, the whole reason he trained to fight with Heihachi was to take vengence on Ogre for Jun's death. [Official] Why would Namco destroy the story of one of their best characters by bringing Jun back? And then there's that whole head thing, in the animation YOU provided, like it or not, it's official, since it's the only Introduction they had in the Arcade release, Oh and the fact that Jun and Kazuya appeared in that thing was not to say they are alive, but to show you who Jin is. Notice his eyes closed in thought in the background when they appeared?

Originally posted by Sam Z
Actually I'm not going for culturalistic propoganda and I myself said that Ogre is NOT actual God, but he is clearly not human and saying that he died only because he dissapeared and was defeated is wrong when we talk about some mystical creature with deamon powers and ability to teleport.

The dispersal of souls and lack of the pendant means he has no means of ressurecting, without the souls, he cannot reform his body due to lack of power, and without the pendant, he cannot ressurect.

Originally posted by Sam Z
And what do you base yourself on? You gave some arguments and you clearly was mistaken. Hell with simple logic, simple rules of behaivoure dectates that one must admit when he's mistaken. I simply go by what i see in the games.

Clearly Mistaken? According to you maybe, nobody else is backing your claim, and you have provided no evidence at all. You made the claim, you back it with proof, otherwise, concede.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
The thing is that not only have your arguments not changed since then, but you have not posted any other sources at all, so one has to assume that Wiki is the only source you have. If you have ANY other source at all, Anything that backs up your argument, then please post it.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Uh no, dude, your again seeing only what you want to see, I proved that DW is not canon. roger jr does not use the thunder godfist, he uses a similar technique, but it's not the same, notable differences including positioning of the body, the arm swing and the damage difference all point to it being a mere carbon copy. your grab argument is out of context for what I was trying to prove. If this is Jin set after Tekken 4, he should only be using the moves he had in Tekken 4 and 5, why bring in an attack that he hasn't used since Tekken 3? I am waiting for an appropreate explanation, and no "It is a correct technique in traditional Karate" is not a rebuke, it's a copout. I want to hear WHY Jin is not using one of his actual official moves out of the 120+ moves he has in storymode.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

And yet, when he does his faceplant right bitween her ****, he's wearing his white flames and white gloves... odd... maybe we're playing different versions of the game... are you playing the NTSC version? I'm using the AUS PAL version.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Becuase it kills the premise of Jins story entirely, the whole reason he trained to fight with Heihachi was to take vengence on Ogre for Jun's death. [Official] Why would Namco destroy the story of one of their best characters by bringing Jun back? And then there's that whole head thing, in the animation YOU provided, like it or not, it's official, since it's the only Introduction they had in the Arcade release, Oh and the fact that Jun and Kazuya appeared in that thing was not to say they are alive, but to show you who Jin is. Notice his eyes closed in thought in the background when they appeared?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

The dispersal of souls and lack of the pendant means he has no means of ressurecting, without the souls, he cannot reform his body due to lack of power, and without the pendant, he cannot ressurect.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Clearly Mistaken? According to you maybe, nobody else is backing your claim, and you have provided no evidence at all. You made the claim, you back it with proof, otherwise, concede.

Grrr, dangblasted quotes...

Now, I didn't use Wiki as a source, you did, second, I am using it only to reinforce my point, not to make one. Even Wiki acknowleges the fact that DW is not recognised as Canon until confirmation is gained. You should do the same.

-

Now, WTF are you smoking? I dunno how you came to the conclusion that I disproved the only source of canon their is, but your smoking something real bad and definitely illegal. What I proved was that Jin is using a technique he has not used since Tekken 3, where he was still using Mishima Ryu. The very same technique that every other Mishima uses, and is the only place he could have learned it.

Now since this is set bitween Tekkens 4 and 5, I asked you to explain why he has gone back to using a technique that he swore he'd never use again, and to reaffirm this, the move is not found in either of his tekken 4 or 5 moveslists? Explain it...

-

i'll admit that I was wrong on the clothes thing... ok? now lets address the far more important points of the argument.

-

OMFG! Then why would Jin be on a vengence quest against Ogre?! i'll tell you why straight up. Because Ogre Killed Jun, the video proves it, and like it or not, that video is actually higher on the canon validity scale that DW ever will be, why? simply because it was the ONLY video avalable to the arcade version of tekken 3. it's official, it's real, and like it or not, it sticks. Jun's decapitated head is there, everyone but you recognises it as such, and this proof is irefutable. Don't like it, thats too bad.

-

The lack of power argument is supported in Ogres story and Jin's ending, your analergy means absolutely nothing without proof to back it up. Read the story for christ's sake. The pendant is hat was used to revive him the first time, it is now lost. Ogre's captured souls where freed when he vapourised, they are his sourse of power, without them he'd not much more powerful than say Paul. Both of these options have been lost to him, so you'd better prove he CAN come back, and the same goes for Jun.

-

Contradictions? Righto.... You'd better go clean the sand from your eyes and read again, where's the contradiction? where's the mistake? and since I am using the facts found in the games, while you started this mess with Wiki and ran around in circles for 6 months. This argument was well and truly over a long time ago, and you lost due to lack of evidence to support your claim.

Remember the goled rule of a debating forum, you make the claim, the burden of proof lies with you to prove it, which clearly you have not done.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Grrr, dangblasted quotes...

Now, I didn't use Wiki as a source, you did, second, I am using it only to reinforce my point, not to make one. Even Wiki acknowleges the fact that DW is not recognised as Canon until confirmation is gained. You should do the same.

That's what i did, "reinforced" my point with wiki by then and if you suddenly decided to go by it then you'll have also to accept that Jun's body was not found because that's what written there and wiki says it is not yet known if DW is canon or not but it also says that events took place between tekken 4 and 5 (as i said) and don't forget that Jin's intro says about journey that clearly is not about tournament. Like it or not but it is another thing to support my argument.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Now, WTF are you smoking? I dunno how you came to the conclusion that I disproved the only source of canon their is, but your smoking something real bad and definitely illegal. What I proved was that Jin is using a technique he has not used since Tekken 3, where he was still using Mishima Ryu. The very same technique that every other Mishima uses, and is the only place he could have learned it.

Now since this is set bitween Tekkens 4 and 5, I asked you to explain why he has gone back to using a technique that he swore he'd never use again, and to reaffirm this, the move is not found in either of his tekken 4 or 5 moveslists? Explain it...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

i'll admit that I was wrong on the clothes thing... ok? now lets address the far more important points of the argument.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

OMFG! Then why would Jin be on a vengence quest against Ogre?! i'll tell you why straight up. Because Ogre Killed Jun, the video proves it, and like it or not, that video is actually higher on the canon validity scale that DW ever will be, why? simply because it was the ONLY video avalable to the arcade version of tekken 3. it's official, it's real, and like it or not, it sticks. Jun's decapitated head is there, everyone but you recognises it as such, and this proof is irefutable. Don't like it, thats too bad.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

The lack of power argument is supported in Ogres story and Jin's ending, your analergy means absolutely nothing without proof to back it up. Read the story for christ's sake. The pendant is hat was used to revive him the first time, it is now lost. Ogre's captured souls where freed when he vapourised, they are his sourse of power, without them he'd not much more powerful than say Paul. Both of these options have been lost to him, so you'd better prove he CAN come back, and the same goes for Jun.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Contradictions? Righto.... You'd better go clean the sand from your eyes and read again, where's the contradiction? where's the mistake? and since I am using the facts found in the games, while you started this mess with Wiki and ran around in circles for 6 months. This argument was well and truly over a long time ago, and you lost due to lack of evidence to support your claim.

Remember the goled rule of a debating forum, you make the claim, the burden of proof lies with you to prove it, which clearly you have not done.

You like asking me to give you proofs, how about you give them to me yourself because you never prove anything to back up your claims, for now on I only got from you two failed arguments about clothes and technique and one claim that is based on my own link that is ARCADE video with Jun and Kazuya alive in it. So I lost the argument? Yeah ok 🙄 at least i haven't proved that tekken 5 story mode is not canon. Why should i run if the only thing you have to offer is your wrong asumptions about Jin's technique? You remind me gold rule of the forum but yourself forgot gold rule of the life. You made mistake, admit you made it and don't run circles pretending you haven't. So lets see, i have Jin's prologue that mentions journey, i have cutscene where it's said that Heihachi could not capture Ogre and it possibly means that Ogre escaped, I also have arguments that Jin has right clothes and he and that he fights in traditional karate just like in the story mode. And wiki that you suddenly desided to use supports my point. You onlyt have two failed arguments and one claim based on the arcade video that really doesn't prove anything. And introes that i go by are much higher on the canon validity scale than arcade video. You know, you should've stopped last time when we had a break.

Look,. i've no intention of running around in circles with you for the next six months, so I'll sum up my point here; The onus of proof has not been addressed successfully, you have failed in every turn to provide evidence to support any point you made in this claim, and until you do, I refuse to answer any of your posts reguarding this matter.

Case in point, provide evidence, or provide evidence, because if you keep going like this without proof you'll be labled as a failed debator. And you can layer all the blame you want onto me, fact is I never had to prove anything, since there was no opposing evidence, and you made the original claim.

What I just said may be harsh to some people, but it's the truth, The rules of a debate, any debate means that a person making a claim has to provide proof to support said claim.

Samo, you claimed that Devil Within and all events within, are canon continuity in the Tekken overall storyline, yet no such proof exists to collaborate said claim, it is therefore considered that Devil Within is an outside storyline with no actual relation to tekken's official continuity. As such it cannot be considered official and should not be used in a debate reguarding tekken characters until such time as evidence proves it to be so.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Look,. i've no intention of running around in circles with you for the next six months, so I'll sum up my point here; The onus of proof has not been addressed successfully, you have failed in every turn to provide evidence to support any point you made in this claim, and until you do, I refuse to answer any of your posts reguarding this matter.

Case in point, provide evidence, or provide evidence, because if you keep going like this without proof you'll be labled as a failed debator. And you can layer all the blame you want onto me, fact is I never had to prove anything, since there was no opposing evidence, and you made the original claim.

What I just said may be harsh to some people, but it's the truth, The rules of a debate, any debate means that a person making a claim has to provide proof to support said claim.

Samo, you claimed that Devil Within and all events within, are canon continuity in the Tekken overall storyline, yet no such proof exists to collaborate said claim, it is therefore considered that Devil Within is an outside storyline with no actual relation to tekken's official continuity. As such it cannot be considered official and should not be used in a debate reguarding tekken characters until such time as evidence proves it to be so.

And try looking at it from this point. There is tekken 5 game and it's story, in this game there is devil within game that follows the story line and supported by intros. For some reason you don't want it to be canon and want me to give you site where it's written that it is and because of this you ignore cutscenes and intros, what other proves do you want? EVERYTHING points that it is canon so I really don't have to prove anything, and if you want it to be not canon then it is YOU who must prove that it isn't and you failed to do it. You are telling me to prove my claims and that's what i've been doing all along, but you yourself on other hand made many claims like about clothes and technique and you did NOT proved them, and not only that. After you realised that you are mistaken you still prefere run circles and you even pretend there is no attack that Jin wasn't using since tekken 3 but there is. But you are right in one thing, no matter what i give you to support my claim (even if it's very simple and obvious) you'll never take it as proof and this debate ain't getting us anywhere, so let's just wait for tekken 6 release and find out ourselvs. And if it turns out that you was right I'll do something you can't, i'll admitt i was mistaken even though all your arguments failed, and if it turns that i was right, you do the same.