DOA vs Tekken

Originally posted by Sam Z
It never changed it because it from the beginning was one certain attack and i showed it to you in the video, so what else was i supposed to tell you to understand that I'm still using this argument?😬
You see, bringing speed feats that are not even bigger deal than what Yoshimitsu does during the game play doesn't mean proving he can dodge this attack, it would make sense if you showed Ryu dodging attack that hits you as fast as this one but you didn't.

It did change sam-z, the execution is slower now. unless your trying to argue looking is much easier or just as easier as focusing on an object.You see focusing is similar to locking on to an object in a video game and depending on your skill it can be fast or slow. No one in tekken has speed feats that are even close to ryu hayabusa, also speed feats are a big deal because focusing on an object in motion is much more difficult, ryu can generate speeds that grant him invisibility (which makes it almost impossible to lock on to him), plus he can teleport. Your right Sam-Z I've haven't provided attacks similar to kazuya, but it's not a problem since ryu has dodged attacks with very high success rate , that he has never encountered until ninja gaiden. so being unfimliar with the attack doesn't put him in a too much of a disadvantage.

Originally posted by Sam Z

The ONLY offense?! The thing is that he wont be able to use this art of ice storm before getting hit. Do you realize that you call "only" - Jinpachi paralization that actually works when opponent in the air, his fireballs, Kazuya's attack, Jin's laser, Ogre's and Gon's firebreath and your only explanation of how is he gonna avoid this IS "he has dodge several projectiles" sorry Blue Nocturne but it is you in disadvantage here.

I disagree, the moment you activate art of the Ice storm the attack comes out, I don't see how that would be any different now. How is jinpaichi's stun move going to hit only ryu if theirs 19 other people attacking him? you said it can hit in the air so does jinpaichi aim towards his opponent in the air or does it hit any opponent in the area, if it's the later how can he avoid hitting his allies. and my only explanation is not "He has dodge many projectiles". He's speed is greater than all of them , he can move to the point of invisiblity, he can teleport, and he has experience dodging multiple projectiles, so why excatly would keep him from dodging them?

Originally posted by Sam Z

Don't bother, i can quote me myself, remember after asking you to give scenario, i then gave mine. And i said that FIRST he is going to get hit by projectiles and only then they can finish him because he wont be able to freeze anyone after being seriously hurt. And the thing is that he CAN'T dodge all their attacks, including paralization andKazuya's attack.

You've declared he can't dodge all those attacks when ninja gaiden contradicts you, he has dodge all those attacks, why wouldn't he be able to? as for jinpaichi's stun move, explain to me how it can hit ryu because the attack has no explanation. it could be an attack that stuns everyone in the areaso explain how it works and wjy could it hit someone how is more capable at dodging multiple projectiles while fighting in h2h combat.

Originally posted by Sam Z
You never asked for his feats, just like you never asked about scenario of Jin beating Ryu, but you like pretending you did, and yes, it leaves us ONLY 1 and I'll explain.

I don't see why I can't ask now, you made a claim so you should back it up.

Originally posted by Sam Z

I can run 200 feet in a minute, Jin flies faster than I run and it is shown in his endings. It is not even worth of proving coz any child could see that. But ok, is that convincing enough?

Your comparing flight to running, how is that convincing. if you say jin flies fast show me proof that he can.

Originally posted by Sam Z

I'll repeat again, it is your job to prove that Ryu can dodge it, I simply told you what attack Kazuiya is gonna use and you did't proved that it wont work, so this ain't working for your list as well.

I already did, 1. he can teleport 2. he can move fast enough to go invisible 3. he has experience. now tell me why does reasons aren't enough?

Originally posted by Sam Z

You sai you played Tekken 5 😬 So if you did you know he can. You want me to record this and send you the tape? Sorry, ain't working for the list as well.

Originally posted by Sam Z

Before I asked you to give me list, you never asked me to prove that, so ain't working too.

I agree with you, but for a different reason, were discussing mainly ryu vs tekken. so you shouldn't have to prove something that is not relevent to it. so forget it.

Originally posted by Sam Z

I never said he can BEAT it, i said with attacks of other characters Ryu will get distructed or hurt so wont be able to use it so this attack MAY hit him, So next.

Actually you did, I can quote you if you like?

Originally posted by Sam Z

I never said it has a big range. I said it certanly hit for some meters and your own link proves that.

The length is never measured, so the video cannot be taken as evidence.

Originally posted by Sam Z

So Blue Nocturne, only one. Now list about you again.
1) You didn't proved Ryu is > all tekken
2) You didn't proved Ryu can dodge Kazuya's attack.
3) That his ki is stronger than Ayane's
4) Head in tekken 3 intro (but you already admitted that there isn't so pass)
Since you also use everything I ever said so I'll continue with this
5) That Asuka is "weak"
6) That Jinpachi is slow.
7) That Ryu can dodge his paralization attack
8) That Ryu is that faster than Yoshi (You said he can leave images but then you said it doesn't mean anything, you said he can run on water but Yoshi never had to Run on water, it would be concidered a proof when i see video with Ryu moving faster than Yoshi during tekken gameplay.)

So here you go. I can even continue, but some of these things I didn't asked you to prove but still mentioned them like you did. So lets only leave # 1)2)3)7)8), I wont count even # 4.

1) were debating ryu vs tekken right now,so I'm in the process of proving it.
2)Yeah I did, I gave you three arguments.
3)I never said that his ki is stronger than ayane's, Idid however say it's deadlier because it's more versatile.
5) Asuka is weak in comparison to ryu, We can debate that if you like?
6) Jinpaichi is slow in comparison to ryu, we can compare their speeds again?
7) http://www.iberiansninjagaiden.com/

Originally posted by Sam Z

I don't argue that Ryu>ayane but i want to see his better ki, because when I tryed to compare Ryu with Jin you started using Ayane. Same you are doing now. So i wanted see Ryu.
Call it anyway you want but if Jin can completly destroy entire forest (not light it up like you suggested but just to DESTROY) it wont be a much of trouble to cause one building to collapse.

So you want me to prove it based on an A>B>C argument, don't forget you used one in the case of paul and bryan. and I admitted that it was wrong for me to use it, so why are you being so vindictive?

Originally posted by Sam Z

I didn't said his fireballs are fast, i said he is fast and he is fast because he moves so during the gameplay, Ryu dodged bullets doesn't proves anything. Because we have not only projectiles but Kazuya's invisible attack, Jinpachi's paralization to use which it takes him less than second and that hits instantly as he uses it, and even while opponent in the air AND many projectiles of people that can fly or teleport, so it is a big differance comparing to bullets. Leaving images and running on water isn't an explanation, because even Jinpachi can leave images, and I never seen video where Ryu actually moves faster than Yoshi during tekken gameplay.

And you still havent explained why jinpaichi's stun move would manage to hit only ryu while there are 19 people on the battle feild. Why does it matter if the attack is invisble ryu wont stand still during the battle, plus I made 3 arguments against all your projectiles which are one he can teleport to avoid them,two he can move fast enough to become invisble plus he's super fast already and he's dodged multiple attacks before so tell me why he can't dodge them again and this time refute what I posted.

Originally posted by Sam Z

😂 Ofcourse you was talking about him, I can see it after you explained it. Are you still worried about that "Kazuya not Kazuya" mistake? I'm not using this thing long ago, man.

Hey as long as you knew what I was saying no problem. 😉

Originally posted by Sam Z

Wont work because they would jump him only after he gets hit or paralized so he wont be able to freeze anyone or use anyone.

That's if he get's paralyzed, I don't see how jinpaichi can hit him if he doesn't have a clear shot.

Originally posted by Sam Z

Same here as before, he wont be able to dodge all these attacks used against him at the same time, especially Kazuya's and Jinpachi's and if Jin make invisible wall to hit him, and Ryu would get hit sooner or later (most likely sooner) and then if not dies will get frighed or beaten to death.
And by the way, at first all your three scenarioes were mixed in one but never mind.

You say he won't be able to dodge all those attacks despite the fact he has dodged multiple attacks before, and jin can make invisible walls when? I don't see what the attack being invisible has to do with ryu not being able to dodge it. and how will jinpaichi hit a ryu without effecting the others?

Originally posted by Sam Z

I didn't said he is faster, try quoting me on this. Slow comparing to Ryu based on what? He moves pretty damn fast so no he isn't slow even comparing to Ryu. And I explained why and how is he gonna get hit and listed attacks, but you never proved that these attacks wont work.

I already proved how these attacks wont work, ryu has dodged multiple projectiles before many times and he has projectiles of his own so he's not defenseless. pluss jinpaichi's attack isn't to descriptive.

Originally posted by Sam Z
🙄 Yeah ok, and you also said he will use it after Yoshimitsu and Raven follow him, so you yourself connected it with your old one that was anyway useless and those your scenarios ain't gonna work and I already explained why, but nice try Blue Nocturne.

No, I didn't connect it because the second time he uses it was against the ten tekken warriors.

Originally posted by Sam Z

doh ok, tell me. How much it takes you to run 200 feet? Some seconds. Jin obviously flies faster than average human runs, so yes - to fly 200 feet it would take him seconds. Is that so hard to understand? What are you trying to prove?

doh your tautology won't work, you made the calim jin flies fast but and attempt to use more claims as evidence. how do you know ho fast jin flies? if you say he's faster than a bird show me him out running a bird.

Originally posted by Sam Z

It works while opponent in the air. You are funny man, I tell you that Jinpachi is very fast, has distance attack paralization, I tell you Kazuya has distance attacks and flight, I tell you Raven has great speed, teleportation and can avoid many attacks with his move, i tell you Yoshi can fly, has teleportation and great speed, I tell you Ogre has firebreath and teleportation, I tell you Jin has distance attack and flight. And all you say "it is not a threat" than what is a threat Blue Nocturne? Art of ice storm? 😂

Hold on sam-z, did you test the attack on devil jins flight ability or on an opponent jumping? and again it isn't too much of a threat because ryu has overwhelmed opponents with greater abilities with ease I might add,
Now don't take this as A>B>C logic but vigor could whoop the entire tekkens cast.

Originally posted by Sam Z

😆 Can you read? Quote me when I said Jinpachi is faster than Ryu. You brought that "leaving images" argument as a proof of great speed. And fireballs that Ryu used in the video against aircrafts were not faster than Jinpachi's. So yes, Jinpachi is damn fast, has distance attack and paralization and there are many other fighters with many powerfull attacks and abilities. But you for some reasons call them "slow" or "weak", perfect way of proving your point.

jinpaichi's projectiles are not fast, their slower than omega's projectiles. his paralyzation well again i'm not sure on the specifics of the attack because I'm not versed in tekken.

Originally posted by Sam Z

😂 I never said Jinpachi fireballs are fast. It is you who says Jinpachi is slow, Asuka is weak etc. And i never said it is fast because Heihachi couldn't dodge it, you made that up. It is fast because it just is, if it hits you as fast as Kazuya focuses on you and if it doesn't even move toward you to hit you then it is damn fast, it's plain and simple but it seems that you don't believe in what you don't see. 🙄 Jin flies not very fast but fast enough to fly 200 feet in seconds, we can see how fast he flies up in his tekken 4 ending and in tekken 3. If you want to argue that he can't fly damn 200 feet in some seconds then it is a differant story, create a new thread and you'll see everyone would laugh at ya.

No, you said kazuya's tk was fast, and I asked you based on what the fact heiachi standing still can't dodge it. asuka is weak compared to ryu.
Sam-Z can you really prove the attack can't move towards you, and ryu has dodged distance attacks that don't move towards you.

Originally posted by Sam Z

She'll appear near him and snap his neck before anyone reacts. Yes, nice try. I simply showed you what would happen. And you are trying to bring non-canon abilities to this discussion. Are you realy that dessperate?

Having children in my house especially babies, you never leave them alone ever. and you assume no one is going to sense her 😆

[

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
He shouldn't be using ANY technique relating to what he learned from the Mishima Ryu, he abandoned the Mishima Ryu fighting style in it's entirety and focused on traditional karate and the Kazama Ryu, Neither of which use a jumping uppercut even remotely like that... and you still havn't offered any proof to the contrary... Come on Samo, you made these claims, you have to provide proof to back them.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

He only wore it during Tekken 3... Yes, I knew this, but why go back to the costume after Tekken 4? he has no reason to since he abbandoned everything else relating to the Mishima's... your theroy is making less and less sense than it did to begin with...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

After the video evidence suggested otherwise... geeze you are as stubborn as a zit... Why would Jun still be alive if they brought in Asuka... that should be enough of a hint right there...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Ogre is gone, accept this, his bloody body disintegrated and those lights all went in separate directions, namely the souls of those he had killed... and Michelle's amulet has been lost, so there's no real chance of him ressurecting...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

during kazuya's early childhood, Heihachi buried him under Honmaru... Before that, it was already stated that the Curse of the Mishima bloodline waswell and truly underway, Jinpachi had mentioned it to Wang hile Heihachi was a kid...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
It did change sam-z, the execution is slower now. unless your trying to argue looking is much easier or just as easier as focusing on an object.You see focusing is similar to locking on to an object in a video game and depending on your skill it can be fast or slow. No one in tekken has speed feats that are even close to ryu hayabusa, also speed feats are a big deal because focusing on an object in motion is much more difficult, ryu can generate speeds that grant him invisibility (which makes it almost impossible to lock on to him), plus he can teleport. Your right Sam-Z I've haven't provided attacks similar to kazuya, but it's not a problem since ryu has dodged attacks with very high success rate , that he has never encountered until ninja gaiden. so being unfimliar with the attack doesn't put him in a too much of a disadvantage.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

I disagree, the moment you activate art of the Ice storm the attack comes out, I don't see how that would be any different now. How is jinpaichi's stun move going to hit only ryu if theirs 19 other people attacking him? you said it can hit in the air so does jinpaichi aim towards his opponent in the air or does it hit any opponent in the area, if it's the later how can he avoid hitting his allies. and my only explanation is not "He has dodge many projectiles". He's speed is greater than all of them , he can move to the point of invisiblity, he can teleport, and he has experience dodging multiple projectiles, so why excatly would keep him from dodging them?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

You've declared he can't dodge all those attacks when ninja gaiden contradicts you, he has dodge all those attacks, why wouldn't he be able to? as for jinpaichi's stun move, explain to me how it can hit ryu because the attack has no explanation. it could be an attack that stuns everyone in the areaso explain how it works and wjy could it hit someone how is more capable at dodging multiple projectiles while fighting in h2h combat.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I don't see why I can't ask now, you made a claim so you should back it up.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

Your comparing flight to running, how is that convincing. if you say jin flies fast show me proof that he can.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

I already did, 1. he can teleport 2. he can move fast enough to go invisible 3. he has experience. now tell me why does reasons aren't enough?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

I agree with you, but for a different reason, were discussing mainly ryu vs tekken. so you shouldn't have to prove something that is not relevent to it. so forget it..

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

Actually you did, I can quote you if you like?.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

The length is never measured, so the video cannot be taken as evidence..

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

1) were debating ryu vs tekken right now,so I'm in the process of proving it..

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

2)Yeah I did, I gave you three arguments..

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

3)I never said that his ki is stronger than ayane's, Idid however say it's deadlier because it's more versatile..

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

5) Asuka is weak in comparison to ryu, We can debate that if you like?
.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

6) Jinpaichi is slow in comparison to ryu, we can compare their speeds again?.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

7) http://www.iberiansninjagaiden.com/.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

And you still havent explained why jinpaichi's stun move would manage to hit only ryu while there are 19 people on the battle feild. Why does it matter if the attack is invisble ryu wont stand still during the battle, plus I made 3 arguments against all your projectiles which are one he can teleport to avoid them,two he can move fast enough to become invisble plus he's super fast already and he's dodged multiple attacks before so tell me why he can't dodge them again and this time refute what I posted..

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

Hey as long as you knew what I was saying no problem. 😉 .

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

That's if he get's paralyzed, I don't see how jinpaichi can hit him if he doesn't have a clear shot.
.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

You say he won't be able to dodge all those attacks despite the fact he has dodged multiple attacks before, and jin can make invisible walls when? I don't see what the attack being invisible has to do with ryu not being able to dodge it. and how will jinpaichi hit a ryu without effecting the others? .

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

I already proved how these attacks wont work, ryu has dodged multiple projectiles before many times and he has projectiles of his own so he's not defenseless. pluss jinpaichi's attack isn't to descriptive.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
No, I didn't connect it because the second time he uses it was against the ten tekken warriors.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

doh your tautology won't work, you made the calim jin flies fast but and attempt to use more claims as evidence. how do you know ho fast jin flies? if you say he's faster than a bird show me him out running a bird.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

Hold on sam-z, did you test the attack on devil jins flight ability or on an opponent jumping? and again it isn't too much of a threat because ryu has overwhelmed opponents with greater abilities with ease I might add,

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

Now don't take this as A>B>C logic but vigor could whoop the entire tekkens cast.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

jinpaichi's projectiles are not fast, their slower than omega's projectiles. his paralyzation well again i'm not sure on the specifics of the attack because I'm not versed in tekken.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

No, you said kazuya's tk was fast, and I asked you based on what the fact heiachi standing still can't dodge it. asuka is weak compared to ryu.
Sam-Z can you really prove the attack can't move towards you, and ryu has dodged distance attacks that don't move towards you.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

Having children in my house especially babies, you never leave them alone ever. and you assume no one is going to sense her 😆

And one last thing, nice new name.

Originally posted by Sam Z
My argument itself did NOT changed because my argument was Kazuya's attack all along, [B]changed only the way of me telling you about this attack and these changes are based on my mistake only, and not on my argument. About speed, i can argue that Yoshimitsu has speed close to Ryu hayabusa and for now on I never saw Ryu moving faster than Youshimitsu during the gameplay. You can say that focusing may last for hours, yes. But it obviously not out case. Ryu dodged multiple and fast attacks before, but not same as Kazuya's. Ryu may move fast and teleport but he wont be able to satay of Kazuya's site for entire fight and once he gets cought in it he will be instantly hit, and not by something that moves to him but by something he won't be able to dodge. [/B]

If your attack changes that effects your argument Sam-z, thus I wasn't wrong to say it changed. though the change was small, it was a change none the less.Arguing yoshimitsu has speed close to ryu won't help, because like you said it's CLOSE not equivilant, second I gave you feats demonstrating ryu's speed and I gave you descriptions (Running on water,running on walls, leaving after images,etc) Yoshimitsu has never demonstrated that. third Debating yoshimitsu's speed is irrelevent since he has never been demonstrated fighting against kazuya's tk or kazuya for that matter, so I don't see what debating him has to do with ryu dodging projectiles.Again, Not having experience against a paticular projectile will not put him in a disadvantage since he's dodged projectiles successful on his first encounter with them. and why does ryu have to dodge it forever he can always attack while evading he's very good at that.

Originally posted by Sam Z

I may once again argue that he is not faster than them ALL, but it is not important now. Jinpachi uses attack only during gameplay and I judge about it by the gameplay and in the gameplay this attack paralizes you instantly as Jinpachi stomps on the groung and no matter where are you, on the groun or in the air. Plus as i said before Jinpachi has great speed, ofcourse it is not of Ryu's level but is till will make it possible for him to follow Ryu and it would make even easier for him to use his paralization. This attack wouldn't have to go throw anybody because as i said before noone will jump Ryu untill he gets hit from distance, and this makes art of icestorm not a threat for others.

Yes,but sam-z, jinpaichi's attack has no specifics. you haven't explained to me what kind of attack it is, does it hit only an individual or multi opponents in a single try? If it's the former, then I have already set up an argument against it, if it's the later how is he going to hit only ryu without hitting his allies?
Yeah,you said it attacks you where ever you are which makes me believe it attacks an entire area. any way I don't see why teleportation would not be effective against it, especially if one can counter attack while reappearing.

Originally posted by Sam Z

Ninja gaiden doesn't controdict me because in ninja gaiden Ryu never had to dodge similar attacks, bullets and projectiles he deals with are completly differant and much easier to dodge or to teleport from. As I said above, Jinpachi's attack will get him even in the air and if he teleports behind for example there are always Kazuya with his attack that Ryu wont be able to dodge or others to interupt his teleportations, and then let Jinpachi to finally paralize him, That's the thing, whatever Ryu do, the outcome would be simillar, he will or be paralized or hit by Kazuya, or even by others with distance attacks, and that leaves him open for other fighters to finish him.

Sam-z,ryu doesn't only dodge bullets in ninja gaiden and you say their easier without actually having played the game.And I don't get how you explaintion about the teleportation, if ryu teleports somewhere how do they know where he lands. and as for kazuya's tk your description of it is pure speculation, you said it doesn't move towards the opponent by basing it on the fact it hit heiachi instantly. first of all heiachi wasn't really far from kazuya, second you said it doesn't travel towards the enemy, how can you tell if the attack is considered invisible? what are the specifics of the attack?

🙄 so many threads concerning fighting games like DOA, Tekken or SF 😱 this place is swamped with arguments of these

Originally posted by Sam Z

So you think Jin flies slower than he runs?? So what the point of wings then? Yes I'm comparing running to flying because even me who is not hellova sportsman can run 200 feet within minute and the guy who can fly and has huge wings can't? makes no sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=214L8zvOhVI&search=tekken%203%20jin In this video he is not even moving his wings to fly but still moved like 100 feet away from the place he fought within couple seconds. So here is your proof.

😆 I don't get how you can deduce the fact that he's moving 100 feet based on a video that gives no measurement and you can't compare legs to wings there isn't anything similar about them at all.
And I don't know if jin flies slower than he runs.

Originally posted by Sam Z

These reasons aren't enough as a proof, especially since he never used his speed or teleportation to dodge simillar attacks as Kazuya's or even Jinpachi's and I pretty much explained why it wont help.

And your explanation doesn't make much sense, I told you ryu has successfully dodged attacks he has no experience in fighting before on his first showings. plus you don't know the specifics of kazuya and jinpaichi's attack. than your saying super speed,teleportation, skill in evasion and experience isn't enough but one projectile fron kazuya and jinpachi is.

Originally posted by Sam Z

Not that it is not relevant but you really did not asked me to prove it then and now you act as if you asked and i didn't do it.

😕 So you want to pove it, I mean if you do go ahead. it's just no biggie if you don't.

Originally posted by Sam Z

So, you want me to prove that Jin's laser can hit at the range of couple of meters? Just say and I'll give you few links, no problem with that.

No, not a range of couple of meters but close to a mile which you've been implying.

Originally posted by Sam Z

That do not prove it, honostly. I don't see how his speed or experience will help him to avoid Jinpachi's step, Kazuya's attack, Jin's attack and few other distance attacks at the same time.

I don't see how it won't considering, ryu has dodged multiple "dragon ball Z" size beams in ninja gaiden.

Originally posted by Sam Z

But that makes no sense since he've been training more and has more experience.

And worst showings.

Originally posted by Sam Z

At first you said just slow, not in comparison, you only corrected yourself later. And btw I can argue that. Jinpachi is not SLOW comparing to Ryu. Ofcourse not as fast but surely not slow.

He's slow in comparison to ryu, we can debate that if you like?

Originally posted by Sam Z

What proves here that Ryu can dodge Kazuya’s attack? I mean where to click there?

The video's just show ryu's speed, which you refuse to take as a valid reason for dodging kazuya's attack.

Originally posted by Sam Z

As you said earlier you haven’t specified where they fight, so if Jinpachi would use his attack on Ryu others wouldn’t be standing there on it’s way but somewhere else,like behind him, and besides as I already said they wont jump at Ryu untill he gets hit or paralized, so they wont be cought in art of ice storm. You haven’t made argument against all projectiles, your reasons are convincing only in case of not very fast attacks like Ogre’s breath but in case of Kazuya or Jinpachi it wont work, not speed nor teleportation would help because once Kazuya focuses on him and Jinpachi uses his speed to follow him and use his power he’ll be or hit or paralized.

And you haven't specified how jinpaichi's stun move works, Instead you make a vague description of what will happen. I don't get this thing about standing behind ryu. so the whole tekken cast will form a line behind ryu?the fight takes palce on the tritwoers (Which includes the weapons pad and the great hall.). If you say speed,teleportation,evasion skill and teleportation won't be enough than you need to specify the exact mechanics of the move.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Him or Kazuya would have a clear shot, because unless he kills everyone the way that noone will even understand who is doing that (and that is possible only if he was fighting amatures and they are not), they will hit or paralize him, before he catches other in ice storm.

How do you know he was fighting Amateurs? and forget about art of the ice storm since you claim they must paralyze him first, how can they do that with so many opponents in the way, explain descriptively please?

Originally posted by Sam Z

multiple attacks but never same attacks, Kazuya also dodged multiple attacks before but since they were not similar it is not a proof, and as for invicible attacks, imagine Ryu moving toward someone to attack and bumps into the wall and gets disrtacted, besides that, Kazuya’s and Jinpachi’s attacks are not only instant but also invisible, so yes./ He wont be able to dodge them.

What multiple attacks has kazuya dodged while avoiding projectiles?
And again your relying on 2 attacks you don't know the specifics on to win, so tell me how jinpaichi can avoid hitting his own allies since his stun move hits everywhere or how kazuya will get a clear shot of ryu. what invisible wall are you talking about, can you show me this "Wall".

Originally posted by Sam Z

He is defenseless since once Kazuya focuses on him and Jinpachi makes a simple stomp he wouldn’t be able to do anything, and multiple projectiles Ryu dodged have nothing to do with it. And Jinpachi really isn’t slow comparing to Ryu.

And kazuya will be able to focus on him despite the fact there are so many people there and ryu is constantly moving? and why won't this stomp jinpaichi does only effect ryu and not everyone else? and yes multiple projectiles has alot to do with this he's farely impossible to hit, yet you base your attack on 2 projectiles which you havent' explained the specifics in any real except your own imagination. and please tell me why jinpaichi is not slow compared to ryu?

Originally posted by Sam Z

😆 I'll ask namco to make video of him competing with bird. If seriously - I claimed that he flies faster than runs, and that is true, he surely runs faster than me, and I can run 200 feet within one minute for sure. Damn, now it sounds like ABC logic but still makes sense, don't you think? But anyway, I already posted video where he flies like 100 feet within few second without trying much.

I don't get how it makes sense to you, your comapring a wings to legs with no actually measurement?

Originally posted by Sam Z

Yes, I on purpose fought Jinpachi and checked exactly this thing and for this thread. His attack works while opponent in the air.
He may fought opponents with greater abilities but they were not that effective against Ryu, unlike attacks I mentioned. One of Ryu main powers is his great speed and the advantage of these attacks are that they beat his speed, that's why it would work.

He still has options, I don't see why teleportation can't work. and you still haven't explained how jinpaichi will hit only ryu when it seems he effects an area.

Originally posted by Sam Z

Based on that this attack hits you instantly as Kazuya focuses on you and it doesn't moves toward you, best thing i can do is post link again where he uses it to prove it, it is pretty clearl there. And when did Ryu dodged simillar attacks? Asuka isn't weak, maybe comparing to him yes, but when you first said that you wasn't comparing, you just said - weak. That's why I disagreed.

1) Instantly isn't really that much of a big deal since ryu has dodged attacks that move instantly.

2) He's dodged attacks that don't move towards you, and how do you know it doesn't move towards you?

Originally posted by Sam Z

And one last thing, nice new name.

thank you.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
If your attack changes that effects your argument Sam-z, thus I wasn't wrong to say it changed. though the change was small, it was a change none the less.Arguing yoshimitsu has speed close to ryu won't help, because like you said it's [B]CLOSE not equivilant, second I gave you feats demonstrating ryu's speed and I gave you descriptions (Running on water,running on walls, leaving after images,etc) Yoshimitsu has never demonstrated that. third Debating yoshimitsu's speed is irrelevent since he has never been demonstrated fighting against kazuya's tk or kazuya for that matter, so I don't see what debating him has to do with ryu dodging projectiles.Again, Not having experience against a paticular projectile will not put him in a disadvantage since he's dodged projectiles successful on his first encounter with them. and why does ryu have to dodge it forever he can always attack while evading he's very good at that.
[/B]

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

Yes,but sam-z, jinpaichi's attack has no specifics. you haven't explained to me what kind of attack it is, does it hit only an individual or multi opponents in a single try? If it's the former, then I have already set up an argument against it, if it's the later how is he going to hit only ryu without hitting his allies?
Yeah,you said it attacks you where ever you are which makes me believe it attacks an entire area. any way I don't see why teleportation would not be effective against it, especially if one can counter attack while reappearing.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

Sam-z,ryu doesn't only dodge bullets in ninja gaiden and you say their easier without actually having played the game.And I don't get how you explaintion about the teleportation, if ryu teleports somewhere how do they know where he lands. and as for kazuya's tk your description of it is pure speculation, you said it doesn't move towards the opponent by basing it on the fact it hit heiachi instantly. first of all heiachi wasn't really far from kazuya, second you said it doesn't travel towards the enemy, how can you tell if the attack is considered invisible? what are the specifics of the attack?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
😆 I don't get how you can deduce the fact that he's moving 100 feet based on a video that gives no measurement and you can't compare legs to wings there isn't anything similar about them at all.
And I don't know if jin flies slower than he runs.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

And your explanation doesn't make much sense, I told you ryu has successfully dodged attacks he has no experience in fighting before on his first showings. plus you don't know the specifics of kazuya and jinpaichi's attack. than your saying super speed,teleportation, skill in evasion and experience isn't enough but one projectile fron kazuya and jinpachi is.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

😕 So you want to pove it, I mean if you do go ahead. it's just no biggie if you don't.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

No, not a range of couple of meters but close to a mile which you've been implying.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

I don't see how it won't considering, ryu has dodged multiple "dragon ball Z" size beams in ninja gaiden.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

And worst showings.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

He's slow in comparison to ryu, we can debate that if you like?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

The video's just show ryu's speed, which you refuse to take as a valid reason for dodging kazuya's attack.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

And you haven't specified how jinpaichi's stun move works, Instead you make a vague description of what will happen. I don't get this thing about standing behind ryu. so the whole tekken cast will form a line behind ryu?the fight takes palce on the tritwoers (Which includes the weapons pad and the great hall.). If you say speed,teleportation,evasion skill and teleportation won't be enough than you need to specify the exact mechanics of the move.

You want me tell you the source of Jinpachi powers? I don't know, sorry. But i did explained you how it works and I can search for video if you want. As I already said speed doesn't matter when you can't move faster than something that hits you wherever you are as someone stomps on the ground, if you say that Kazuya's attack, Jin's attack, Jinpachi's attack, Ogre's and Gon's attack are not enough to hit someone then you need to explaine how is he gonna dodge those all at the same time and saying that he dodged projectiles before does not prove it.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
How do you know he was fighting Amateurs? and forget about art of the ice storm since you claim they must paralyze him first, how can they do that with so many opponents in the way, explain descriptively please?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

What multiple attacks has kazuya dodged while avoiding projectiles?
And again your relying on 2 attacks you don't know the specifics on to win, so tell me how jinpaichi can avoid hitting his own allies since his stun move hits everywhere or how kazuya will get a clear shot of ryu. what invisible wall are you talking about, can you show me this "Wall".

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

And kazuya will be able to focus on him despite the fact there are so many people there and ryu is constantly moving? and why won't this stomp jinpaichi does only effect ryu and not everyone else? and yes multiple projectiles has alot to do with this he's farely impossible to hit, yet you base your attack on 2 projectiles which you havent' explained the specifics in any real except your own imagination. and please tell me why jinpaichi is not slow compared to ryu?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

I don't get how it makes sense to you, your comapring a wings to legs with no actually measurement?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

He still has options, I don't see why teleportation can't work. and you still haven't explained how jinpaichi will hit only ryu when it seems he effects an area.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

1) Instantly isn't really that much of a big deal since ryu has dodged attacks that move instantly.

2) He's dodged attacks that don't move towards you, and how do you know it doesn't move towards you?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

thank you.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Proofs of what? That Jin in DW fights in traditianal karate? Go check it yourself, it is so. And what you sat is already senseless because making jumping uppercought doesn't mean using mishima fighting style, it is just an attack, again even Roger uses it and he doesn't fight in mishima fighting style.
Just accept it, in DW Jin fights in traditianal karate ONLY and that makes sense.

Are you really so thick that you can't differentiate one attack from the other, In Tekken's 4 and 5, Jin never used that attack in the main story, because it's an attack of the Mishima Ryu, saying that Roger uses a SIMILAR technique is not a counter argument, simply because although he uses a similar technique, it's not the exact same attack, hell man he even has the same kicking chains he had on it for Tekken Tag...

Why can't YOU accept the fact that Jin is using a Mishima Ryu technique when he is only SUPPOSED to be using Traditional Karate and Kazama Ryu techniques?

Originally posted by Sam Z
😆 You are killing me, if you say that my theories make no sense then go write a letter to namco because Jin during tekken 5 as devil wears same clothes and it is STORYMODE, so go ahead, write them that Jin is not supposed to wear it. Man, you never listen to anybody but yourslef. I'll repeat, during DW Jin has same clothes as during story mode, if this doesn't make sense for you then nothing would.

Thats not an argument, since we are discussing Normal Jin, not Devil Jin... are you simply that retarded? I have stated this 5 times, your simply not paying attention or are ignoring points.

And since Kazuya's clothes change during transformation (Namely they dissapear when he becomes Devil, and reformes when he transforms back into Kazuya) I don't see my contradiction, but I do see yours since you've still not provided evidence or any appropreate counter arguments.

Originally posted by Sam Z
And that is 👆 logic. Why then they brought Jin in tekken 3? Kazuya was alive then too and they brought simillar fighter. Jun dissareared and claiming that she is 100% dead is simply not right.

Wrong, Jin shared only some techniques with Kazuya, the rest was Kazama Ryu that he learned from Jun as a child. sharing similarities and being a perfect carbon copy are two completely different things.

Oh, and if your dead, your dead, there's no such thing as 100% dead, 50% dead or 20% dead... Where you got this from is beyond me.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Call it "disintegrated", I'll say he simply dissapeared after being defeated.

You call it how you like, he faded, and it's not like he was conscious to teleport...

Originally posted by Sam Z
So by your logic Jin was searching for Jinpachi to get rid of devil gene? Then why after defeating Jinpachi as devil he steals his power to become even stronger? Makes a lot of sense. 🙄

AHAHAHAHAAA! Your claiming Devil Jin's ending is the canonically correct version of events!? Please, if that where the case then there will be no future Tekken Games, because Jin destroyed all life on the planet

You like twisting events around to suit your arguments, but tell me, if what I am saying is wrong, then what is the curse of the Mishima Bloodline? Hmm? Jinpachi was well aware of it log before anyone else did, evidenced by his confiding in Wang Jinrei.

Wait, i know, Lets ask Blue Nocturn/Emperor Ashtar, or anyone else reading this message which of out two theories makes more sense

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Are you really so thick that you can't differentiate one attack from the other, In Tekken's 4 and 5, Jin never used that attack in the main story, because it's an attack of the Mishima Ryu, saying that Roger uses a SIMILAR technique is not a counter argument, simply because although he uses a similar technique, it's not the exact same attack, hell man he even has the same kicking chains he had on it for Tekken Tag...

Why can't YOU accept the fact that Jin is using a Mishima Ryu technique when he is only SUPPOSED to be using Traditional Karate and Kazama Ryu techniques?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Thats not an argument, since we are discussing Normal Jin, not Devil Jin... are you simply that retarded? I have stated this 5 times, your simply not paying attention or are ignoring points.

And since Kazuya's clothes change during transformation (Namely they dissapear when he becomes Devil, and reformes when he transforms back into Kazuya) I don't see my contradiction, but I do see yours since you've still not provided evidence or any appropreate counter arguments.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Wrong, Jin shared only some techniques with Kazuya, the rest was Kazama Ryu that he learned from Jun as a child. sharing similarities and being a perfect carbon copy are two completely different things.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Oh, and if your dead, your dead, there's no such thing as 100% dead, 50% dead or 20% dead... Where you got this from is beyond me.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

You call it how you like, he faded, and it's not like he was conscious to teleport...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

AHAHAHAHAAA! Your claiming Devil Jin's ending is the canonically correct version of events!? Please, if that where the case then there will be no future Tekken Games, because Jin destroyed all life on the planet

You like twisting events around to suit your arguments, but tell me, if what I am saying is wrong, then what is the curse of the Mishima Bloodline? Hmm? Jinpachi was well aware of it log before anyone else did, evidenced by his confiding in Wang Jinrei.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Wait, i know, Lets ask Blue Nocturn/Emperor Ashtar, or anyone else reading this message which of out two theories makes more sense

Now go ahead, look at your own logic and "proofs" (most of all I like #1 and #2) and ask anyone you want who played all tekkens and know it's story what sounds more convincing.

You...uh...you went through alot of text just to get a point across. Are you like, really pissed off or something?

Not really, just trying to make everything clear.

Originally posted by Sam Z
OK smart guy, then tell me this. Why during story mode Jin uses same grab as Kazuya in mishima style?
So by your logic - DW is not canon because Jin uses one attack that looks simillar to mishima style. So by your brilliant logic it means that STORY MODE is not canon because Jin uses there same grab as Kazuya! 😱
What other explanations do you need to realise that your "proofs" are hillarious?
I'll say this one more time, during Devil Within Jin fights in traditional art of Karate ONLY, and one uppercought that looks similar to mishima style and to Roger's attack doesn't change that fact. [B]Traditional Karate and it makes sense.[/B]

Since when was Jin using the same throws outside of Tekken 3 and as Devil Jin? Provide evidence that these are the exact same throws. Point is, I have provided evidence to the exact same moves, how they are done and where to find them. Also, Jin had frigging heaps of other uppercuts and moves they could have used in DW, why would they use the lunging uppercut that he hasn't used since Tekken 3? I'm serious, I want an answer to this question and not some runnaround to avoid answering it.

And what makes any of your evidence any less hilarious? you used Wiki as a source for crying out loud... 🙄

Originally posted by Sam Z
😂 So normal Jin not devil that's why it makes sense? The thing is that During DW we play not only as ordinary Jin, but as devil as well. So to they chose clothes of devil jin because they had to pick one, so you saying that it is "wrong" clothes is not correct.
And since when clothes changes as they turn into devil? Jin's clothes hasn't changed after the fight with heihachi, neither it changed after fight with Ogre, neither in the new video when he fights Hwoarang.
And as for my "counter arguments", you don't have any arguments for me to counter. All your arguments are simply your mistakes, first fighting style, then clothes.

You missed the point entirely here, I said it's possible that the close would chance since it's happened before with the Devil transformation, this point you've yet to address at all says more than any of your 20 page rants.

Remember, Jin was not fully taken by the Devil gene when he fought Heihachi, if that where the case, Jin would not hesitate to kill him, you know this I assume?

Originally posted by Sam Z
Asuka is not complete copy of Jun, not more than Jin was a copy of Kazuya. Making one similar fighter instead of the one that will possibly appear later is nothing new for Namco.

Bullshit... Jin was an amalgamation of Kazuya and Jun with some unique moves thrown in, Asuka is an upgraded Jun with all the attacks present and accounted for. Jin was introduced in Kazuya's absesnce, there, but why would Kazuya make a comeback, but Jun still be absent if she isn't dead?

Originally posted by Sam Z
When you talk about namco games you should know that there IS such thing as not 100% dead especially if body was not found. Kazuya died before, Heihachi was said to be dead in the beginning of tekken 5, so one dissapeared and POPULAR fighter might very well be brought back.

You have to prove that she is in fact NOT dead, the general consensus was that Jun was oficially dead after tekken 2, killed at the hands of Ogre, she is as Dead as Kunnimitsu is, there is no dispute over this, and for you to cling onto faint hope to support your claim is childish, unless you have proof.

Originally posted by Sam Z
He was uncouncious and then dissapeared, no dead body - no dead character. This is very typical for Jpanese games.

Prove he is not dead, he's been absent from 2 games across a number of years, and as stated, without michelles Amulet, Ogre cannot be ressurected.

[QUOTE=7028578]Originally posted by Sam Z
[B]doh That ending don't have to be canon to be possible, fact remains. By your logic Jin wants to get rid of devil gene by searching for Jinpachi, but suddenly instead of that he steals his power. You make as much sense as usually, and now it is me who twist events. 🙄
Are you that desperate that to prove your point you want to ask Emperor Ashtar I've been arguing for 20 pages?
Ask anyone you like but remember this at first.
1) My logic - DW is canon because Jin fights in traditonal art of karate.
Your logic - DW is not canon because among dozens of moves he as one that looks similar to mishima style and it also means that story mode is not canon because he also uses grab similar to mishima style and also it means that turns out that Roger fight in Mishima style.
2) My logic - DW is canon because Jin/devil Jin has same clothes as during story mode, and they had to pick one, of devil or of jin and they picked of devil because Jin fights there not only as ordinary Jin but as devil too.
Your logic - DW is not canon because Jin has wrong clothes because it doesn't changes with him turning into devil.
3) My logic - Jun might not be dead because there was no body found, and it is a typical thing for tekken games.
You logic - Jun is 100% dead because Asuka is in tekken 5 (and by this logic Kazuya was supposed to be dead because Jin was in tekken 3)
4) My logic - Ogre might NOT be dead as well because he dissapeared, because it was said heihachi could not capture him and because he is concidered to be a god so he easilly might survive the fight. (And before you started whining about "actual/not actual god" I know it is just a title but I hardly can call ANY game god - an actual, so still him surviving makes sense)
Your logic - Ogre IS dead for sure because he dissapeared.

No, Jin did seek out Jinpachi to rid the world of the Devil gene, where else is he going to look for it? certainly not within Ogre... heihachi never awakened to the Devil... No, he went straight to the source, the guy who became the source of the Devil gene long before Kazuya ever got it... Jinpachi. Now, if you are going to bring in non-canon evidence to support your claim for Devil Withinto BE Canon, and using Devil Jin's ending as a medium to contradict my point, then at least do it with a bit of research... Devil Jin is NOT Jin, it's Devil Jin, the personality is COMPLETELY different. Devil Jin seeks the rawest, most powerful form of the Devil Power (Hmm, ever considered that this is the reason for Devil Jin to siphon Jinpachi's power?). Whereas Jin seeks to rid himself of the devil genes curse, and what better way to do that than destroying the very source of that power?

#1: My logic = It's not cannon for a number of reasons, not just the fact that he is using a Mishima Technique, this is especially evident that even after they have 120+ moves in his list as of Tekken 5, they reused a technique tat he would in character refrain from ever using again.

#2: My Logic = If they followed the tradition they set with Kazuya, then they would have done it as I described, and yet, if they followed the Hero story, they would have used Jin's white Flame costume, since that would have been the one he was in after Tekken 4 cronologically speaking.

#3: My Logic = I see you conveniantly left out the VIDEO EVIDENCE of her decapitated head in Ogre's hand, which you still have not successfully disputed.

#4: My Logic = He vapourised after being KILLED by Jin, the souls of those Ogre had defeated dispersed, and with his power basis gone and the Amulet of ressurection gone, Ogre is permanently dead, Prove otherwise or drop the argument Samo, your not impressing anyone.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Now go ahead, look at your own logic and "proofs" (most of all I like #1 and #2) and ask anyone you want who played all tekkens and know it's story what sounds more convincing.

I ask anyone to compare our two arguments and draw their own conclusion as to wether DW is Canon for Tekken. My proof is plainly avalable to anyone who plays the game, you base yours on a series of assumpltions with no proof to back them up. I ask again, PROVIDE EVIDENCE TO BACK YOUR EXPLANATIONS.

alryt i no alot of the people who think DOA wins mite be upset but his is why Tekken wins by a mile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESNQAUoEp1A&search=Gon%20tekken