Originally posted by Swanky-TunaWhat he says can be said about almost any mutant really. They're all just shallow thinking energy manipulators. I read somewhere, although it could of just been someone's personal theory, that Magneto could actually be a grossly powerful telekinetic but because of his childhood his powers were surpressed to magnetism. For some reason.
However how many other mutants has that actually been keenly pointed out to time and time again? Iceman is the only one that readily comes to mind when they say, He has sooo much potential, he just hasnt realized it yet, hes an omega level mutant, and then having him time and time again realize new extents to his powers. See other mutants, they can come up with a new power, but its never been suggest, never been talked about, and most mutants are not mutants with unlimited powers. Iceman is ALL about not knowing what he can fully do, and having all the powers to do fo all we know anything. See the difference?
It's all about tapping the untapped. But if every mutant went ahead and did that things would get really boring.
Icemans character is all about tapping the untapped. Iceman at some point is SUPPOSED to do that, or else all the suggestions, all the hints, all the talk about potential would be worthless. You get what I mean?
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Well did it say how fast he was going?I never said he couldn't attack at Superman and Flash speeds.
I said I've never seen him doing it like them in diffrent directions and being all over the place as they do it.
Its still in a forward motion, its not like how Superman and Flash do it.
Do you expect Bobby to just sit their and be attacked.
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Yeah it was moving the same speed as him well he was touching it.That doesn't prove he can do it to something thats not moving the same speed.
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
No it isn't, its pis that he wouldn't be able to since attackers do it all the time.
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Cable didn't, that doesn't mean he couldn't.Do you really think writers were actually going to let Cable take over the Marvel earth?
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Stranger could've done that to, but didn't.
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
It wasn't just Surfer doing it, Cable was doing it aswell.
Originally posted by Accel
He stated he was going faster than the speed of light.
Still it wasn't like how Superman and Flash do.
Originally posted by Accel
What? Wait, are you saying the jet was moving at lightspeed before Surfer transported it?
No
Originally posted by Accel
Surfer's MUCH faster than Iceman, though. he should be able to use the board trick before Bobby can even think of using a flash-freeze.
The board trick took 4 panles to do and the guy couldn't remove his mind from his body like Bobby can.
Originally posted by Accel
That's why they had the Surfer attack him. That one showing is all we have that Surfer is above Omega-Cable.
Just because he won though doesn't disprove Cable can't win.
Spider-Man beats characters that're more powerful them him.
Many chracters have won in comics and the other character could still have won.
Originally posted by Accel
Here, he would have. The most important part is that he COULD.
Yeah alot of things could happen, doesn't mean it will.
Originally posted by Accel
That doesn'[t take much away from the impressiveness of the feat though.
That wasn't the point of the statement.
He said Surfer was doing it without saying Cable was helping.
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Still it wasn't like how Superman and Flash do.
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
No
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
The board trick took 4 panles to do and the guy couldn't remove his mind from his body like Bobby can.
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Just because he won though doesn't disprove Cable can't win.Spider-Man beats characters that're more powerful them him.
Many chracters have won in comics and the other character could still have won.
That fight is the only showing we have to go by to prove who would win between those two. Unless Omega-Cable has performed a feat that would put him above the Surfer, any idea that he WOULD have won that fight is pure speculation.
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Yeah alot of things could happen, doesn't mean it will.
Flash, for instance, can easily go lightspeed, but we often see him going around mach speeds.
Originally posted by Accel
That doesn't change the fact that it's too fast for Iceman to react to before Surfer unloads on him.
I need to see the scan.
Originally posted by Accel
Then what are you saying?
Its in the post go back and read it if you wanna know.
I don't know how you got what you did out of that post.😆
Originally posted by Accel
Norrin wasn't in any rush. Like I said, he could easily perform this feat before Bobby can react. Even if he couldn't he could shield himself while he did it.
Well prove it.
It looked like it took concentration to do.
Plus I've only seen him do it temporarily, which makes it seem like it takes concentration to keep the thing in.
Which is probably why that was the only time I've ever seen him do it.
Originally posted by Accel
Has Cable EVER done anything that would put him above Surfer?
Just because Surfers got a few more powers doesn't dissprove Cable can't win...as seen in MANY comic fights.
Originally posted by Accel
That fight is the only showing we have to go by to prove who would win between those two. Unless Omega-Cable has performed a feat that would put him above the Surfer, any idea that he WOULD have won that fight is pure speculation.
No it isn't proof....
Cable wasnn't even directing his full power to kill Surfer, which he wasn't even trying to do.
The only one who was trying to WIN is Surfer, where Cable was trying to convince him to go along with his plan.
Originally posted by Accel
If a character is capable of doing something to help them win a fight, then they will do it here on the KMC, regardless of what they do in comics.
Yeah and the Stranger feat proves Bobby is capable and has the power to freeze a high level cosmic being.
SS is immune to temperature extreme, thats how Galactus made him.
Bobby power would not work on him. SS power is just too exotic being able to evolve organism planet wide, fixed a dying sun, time travel, cosmic awareness, being able to see future and past events, it goes on. Even if Bobby Omega level he just cant take SS. This is not even an argument. SS 10/10
Originally posted by Rols
SS is immune to temperature extreme, thats how Galactus made him.
Bobby power would not work on him. SS power is just too exotic being able to evolve organism planet wide, fixed a dying sun, time travel, cosmic awareness, being able to see future and past events, it goes on. Even if Bobby Omega level he just cant take SS. This is not even an argument. SS 10/10
How can you be immune to having all your molecules stop?? If they are stopped, you cant move, no matter how resistant you are. Its not even about being able to survive in temp extremes, because it is an outside influence. Its much more damaging to have your very molecules attacked.
If he did it to the Stranger I dont see why he cant to the Surfer.
Omega Level makes a mutant almost up if not on Cosmic Level (maybe one reason that the Pheonix was able to merge with Jean)
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
The creators of the comic meant for them to be.....
creators meant for them to be speaking zenn-lann as well . . .
Really though, I've shown enough pics that support that.😕Do you have any that say otherwise?
you've shown a scan that says when he was zenn-lann he appears humanoid and may have had blood that was similar to ours. as ss you have shown one suspect scan. it may well be a done deal to you, but . . .
Well did it say how fast he was going?
yes, it said he was going lightspeed.
I never said he couldn't attack at Superman and Flash speeds.
then what's the problem? i could post the link for the scan but they always end up as dead links when i copy them. the scan is in the respect forum for all to see. but it doesn't matter -- ss would never need to move to win.
Do you expect Bobby to just sit their and be attacked.
he has no choice in the matter. ss moves inconceiveably more quickly than he does. he has used his cosmic awareness to find a single woman on a starship from lightyears away. he found her and was near the ship in less than a second. ss's perception/reflexes are infinitely faster than bobby can perceive/react and movement/attack is initiated before bobby can finish a thought.
Yeah it was moving the same speed as him well he was touching it.
😕 er, yes, because he was using his power to . . . move it?
That doesn't prove he can do it to something thats not moving the same speed.
😑 yes it does. the ship wasn't moving the same speed as he was initially. when he tampered with the dna of a whole planet, do you think everyone was standing still because he was?
No it isn't, its pis that he wouldn't be able to since attackers do it all the time.
flash gets hit all the time too. be silly if he was never hit. doesn't change the fact that given his powerset, there is no reason why he couldn't effectively end the fight before iceman knows what hit him.
are you saying he can't move or attack or perceive things quicker than iceman?
No he didn't.One fight Stranger ended it for outside reasons and the other a skrull ship intervend.
Thats not a stalemate.
A stalemate is when they just fight and fight till there tired.
😕 a stalemate is when a fight ends and no decisive winner was shown. hercules and hulk fight to stalamates all the time. most hero battles are stalemates or draws. stranger hurt ss and ss hurt stranger in the first fight. second stranger broke his board but ss fixed it. ss appeared to be in no real danger in either, neither did stranger. stalemate.
Cable didn't, that doesn't mean he couldn't.Do you really think writers were actually going to let Cable take over the Marvel earth?
so cable was beaten because . . . the writers wanted him to be? 😕 isn't that why everyone loses . . .? ss was shown to be the more powerful -- even the xmen feared for cable.
Stranger could've done that to, but didn't.
and firelord could have nova blasted spidey . . . 😖hifty:
It wasn't just Surfer doing it, Cable was doing it aswell.
has no bearing on the example of ss manipulating matter at superspeed which is what you were contending. cable also admitted that he couldn't keep up much longer. ss gave no indication whatever of being tired.
Did you know omega level mutant means ultimate and unlimited power?
so does that unlimited tag apply to only iceman, then, or did cable just get the short end of the unltd stick?
and bw -- it is an interesting theory, but just that -- theory.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
nah I think its more of unlimited potential for their powers to continue growing, and at the very end of it being the evolutionary vanguards towards being Cosmic Beings. (something the Cosmic beings said I think)
you MAY be right. however, this iceman we're discussing is NOT at the end of his evolution. perhaps potentially he could be a 'cosmic entity' and totally surpass all his genes and everything else. but i think this whole iceman thing has gone from looking at what he HAS done to what he (or perhaps even mutants in general) might one day POTENTIALLY be capable of.
be honest bw -- you truly believe that iceman can defeat the ss?
I think lots of people underestimate Bobby because he used to throw snowballs.
The potential to become that powerful is true and all, but Iceman (and by that I mean a CURRENT iceman, HAS frozen the stranger) If Icemans powers are to be understood as freezing molecules rather than just mouisture, being able to exist as one with no body and all the other Omega benifits he gets as of right now then I think he can pull a win (at the very least one, the stranger being proof that he can). However at current MINDSET INDUCED power levels, SS would win. Thats what I think.
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
I need to see the scan.
Here ya go-
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/silversurfer.jpg
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Its in the post go back and read it if you wanna know.I don't know how you got what you did out of that post.😆
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Well prove it.It looked like it took concentration to do.
Plus I've only seen him do it temporarily, which makes it seem like it takes concentration to keep the thing in.
Which is probably why that was the only time I've ever seen him do it.
BTW, what difference does it make if it took four panels or not? That’s not an indication of how long it took.
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Just because Surfers got a few more powers doesn't dissprove Cable can't win...as seen in MANY comic fights.
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Yeah and the Stranger feat proves Bobby is capable and has the power to freeze a high level cosmic being.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
I think lots of people underestimate Bobby because he used to throw snowballs.The potential to become that powerful is true and all, but Iceman (and by that I mean a CURRENT iceman, HAS frozen the stranger) If Icemans powers are to be understood as freezing molecules rather than just mouisture, being able to exist as one with no body and all the other Omega benifits he gets as of right now then I think he can pull a win (at the very least one, the stranger being proof that he can). However at current MINDSET INDUCED power levels, SS would win. Thats what I think.
that's cool -- i can actually live with that. imo ss's speed (something stranger does NOT possess) makes even that one win difficult though.
in a book, i imagine bobby likely WOULD give ss some trouble, but i also see ss being able to resist bobby's attacks. i don't think bobby flash freezes him and it's over -- or maybe he would but ss would end up breaking free of his control. stranger has not shown the level of matter manipulation ss has. to say iceman's control of matter exceeds ss's just doesn't seem feasible to me. and even if the macro-level (the 'power level'😉 is similar, ss's experience and precision would likely supercede iceman's.
i'll give you credit bw -- you stirred up quite a little cauldron. but, while i can see him possibly taking superman (though i contend supes could also take him via speed much like ss) and perhaps even thor (though again, it's possible thor might resist long enough to counterattack) ss's powerset is what gives him this fight, imo. as for bobby -- we need more evidence. the character you've painted shouldn't be part of a team. he should be single-handedly crushing EVERYONE. has he been defeated since this powerup?
Originally posted by Accel
[BLeo seems to remark that Surfer transported an entire airship at lightspeed and then you seem to state that it was moving that fast on its own. Am I right?[/B]
that's pretty much what i got out of it as well. 😉 upon further reflection, based on his response to me, i THINK he might be saying that he didn't alter the interior of the vessel until after he brought it up to a speed equal to his own.
which in itself makes no sense (so perhaps my interpretation is incorrect?) -- does that imply that ss can only affect things that have a velocity equal to his own?? so if he is standing still, he can't affect something that is moving? or is there some sort of . . . speedlimit? or if he's moving he can't affect something standing still?? as i said -- perhaps i've misinterpreted. 😬
Originally posted by Accel
*sigh*Here ya go-
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/silversurfer.jpg
He says he moves faster then light itself, he didn't say he was moving at light speed there.
Plus it doesn't matter if Surfer does a speed blitz then blasts him unless Iceman starts out in human form.
Originally posted by Accel
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1996_122_17.jpg
He doesn’t appear to be concentrating that hard at all. He doesn’t even bother moving his limbs to perform the task.
Him not moving is what made it seem as if he was concentrating.
Originally posted by Accel
BTW, what difference does it make if it took four panels or not? That’s not an indication of how long it took.
You're right, it could've been a really long time and a really short time.
Originally posted by Accel
Not necessarily, true, but Surfer has MUCH more impressive feats than Cable. Show me Cable doing something that puts him above Norrin and I may believe you that he is more powerful.
I'm not saying hes more powerful.
It would be stupid to say hes more powerful since he has way more powers.
I don't wanna debate Cable in here agian, if you wanna know why I think Cable could beat Surfer its in this thread somewhere.
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
He says he moves faster then light itself, he didn't say he was moving at light speed there.[B]
Besides, we know he can travel fast in a circle, so it shouldn't make any difference whether what speeds. If he can fly mach speeds in a circle, I don't see any reason why he can't fly lightspeed, or even multitudes of lightspeed in a circle, seeing that he has flown that fast before.
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
[B]Plus it doesn't matter if Surfer does a speed blitz then blasts him unless Iceman starts out in human form.
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Him not moving is what made it seem as if he was concentrating.
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
You're right, it could've been a really long time and a really short time.
