"Superman has enough feats under his belt to trump anything Stark, Herc or Wonderman have done and Marvel had been shown to be Superman's equal on many occasions"
To thrump -anything- all the others have done?
Bullocks. Herc has help shut down a dimensional gateway with fists only. Wman together with IM and two others have embraced a milion(s) worth of an island that was trown at them. IM has put down Herc and Hulk on separate ocassions by pulling a powerup stunt. And thats classic IM. Not the current extremis version that defeated guys that had superspeed iirc.
Heck both Herc and Wman had confrontations where it was stated they wer doing planetary level force.
Saying Superman and Marvel feats thrump anything these guys have done is wrong in all accounts.
_ _ _
"Superman and Marvel would keep this fight in the air and take down Ironman and Wonderman with superior speed, strength and their energy attacks. Herc and Namor would not be able to touch the DC team"
The way i see in comics, the characters always want to trade punches. That makes any speedster or flyer vulnerable to some tag or attacks from the opponent.
_ _ _
" Superman and Marvel win at least 8/10, if not, 9/10."
Dont see it. Speed or no speed they will have to work hard to knock out at least Wman and Herc. Namor does have exploited weakness so hes more vulnerable but they dont have the strenght to be easy on him.
It will come down to fists and things will complicate there.
To knock out a top tier character easily?
I must be really high. Sorry, you are absolutly right. I mean just look at his record against WW who physically speaking isent on his tier. How many times has she been knocked out by the man?
dots
How many times, again?
And in case your wondering, im eloquentily showing how good your reading ability is:
"Namor does have exploited weakness so hes more vulnerable but they dont have the strenght to be -easy- on him"
Key word : e a s y
Originally posted by olympian
"Superman has enough feats under his belt to trump anything Stark, Herc or Wonderman have done and Marvel had been shown to be Superman's equal on many occasions"To thrump -anything- all the others have done?
Bullocks. Herc has help shut down a dimensional gateway with fists only. Wman together with IM and two others have embraced a milion(s) worth of an island that was trown at them. IM has put down Herc and Hulk on separate ocassions by pulling a powerup stunt. And thats classic IM. Not the current extremis version that defeated guys that had superspeed iirc.
Heck both Herc and Wman had confrontations where it was stated they wer doing planetary level force.
Saying Superman and Marvel feats thrump anything these guys have done is wrong in all accounts.
_ _ _
"Superman and Marvel would keep this fight in the air and take down Ironman and Wonderman with superior speed, strength and their energy attacks. Herc and Namor would not be able to touch the DC team"
The way i see in comics, the characters always want to trade punches. That makes any speedster or flyer vulnerable to some tag or attacks from the opponent.
_ _ _
" Superman and Marvel win at least 8/10, if not, 9/10."
Dont see it. Speed or no speed they will have to work hard to knock out at least Wman and Herc. Namor does have exploited weakness so hes more vulnerable but they dont have the strenght to be easy on him.
It will come down to fists and things will complicate there.
Originally posted by olympian
"Superman has enough feats under his belt to trump anything Stark, Herc or Wonderman have done and Marvel had been shown to be Superman's equal on many occasions"To thrump -anything- all the others have done?
Bullocks. Herc has help shut down a dimensional gateway with fists only. Wman together with IM and two others have embraced a milion(s) worth of an island that was trown at them. IM has put down Herc and Hulk on separate ocassions by pulling a powerup stunt. And thats classic IM. Not the current extremis version that defeated guys that had superspeed iirc.
Heck both Herc and Wman had confrontations where it was stated they wer doing planetary level force.
Saying Superman and Marvel feats thrump anything these guys have done is wrong in all accounts.
_ _ _
"Superman and Marvel would keep this fight in the air and take down Ironman and Wonderman with superior speed, strength and their energy attacks. Herc and Namor would not be able to touch the DC team"
The way i see in comics, the characters always want to trade punches. That makes any speedster or flyer vulnerable to some tag or attacks from the opponent.
_ _ _
" Superman and Marvel win at least 8/10, if not, 9/10."
Dont see it. Speed or no speed they will have to work hard to knock out at least Wman and Herc. Namor does have exploited weakness so hes more vulnerable but they dont have the strenght to be easy on him.
It will come down to fists and things will complicate there.
Yes, I understand all of that. Hercules, Wonder Man, and Namor are all very strong and very durable. However they lack the necessary speed and versatility to compete with these guys. Wonder Man can fly, but has nothing on Supes and Marvel's speed level. They fly at the speed of light, I haven't ever seen Wonder Man do that. 😬 Hercules's powers are virtually useless here because all he has are super strength and durability. Cap Marvel and Superman have delt with their fare share of brutes before. I doubt Hercules would present a problem to them. Namor is the weaklink here. He's nowhere near as strong and is fast, granted, but isn't any where near as fast as they are. One good shazam lightning bolt would put him down. Now, Ironman is basically the only problem presented to the two. His suit grants him amazing versatility and strength. There is still one major problem that he's going to have with them, just like everybody else and that is their SPEED! Ironman is just as versatile as CM and SM, but he's extremely slow when in comparrison to the two. Besides, his energy projection isn't as strong as theirs is. Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man are basically non-factors in this fight because of their lack of versatility. Ironman isn't strong or fast enough. So as I was saying before, you can't compare two of the most versatile, strong, and fast characters to these guys. Captain Marvel and Superman win this fight 8-9/10.
When superman goes insane every once in a while (the writers love for him to go insane or have somone take control of his mind, esp as of late) he doesn't have to much of a problem almost KILLING wonder woman on two or three occasions. Iron Man doesn't impress me much in this fight vs. Supes AND Capt. Marvel. As others have stated the other two are landlocked and I think you guys are understimating supes and Marvels energy beams. Also, Superman holds back alot, we only see his true power on very rare occasions. But this is just my opinion. Supes and Marvel 8/10
"The rules of the forum state that all characters will be fighting with the best of their abilities. That means a lot of speed, flying and energy attacks on the Marvel team. If you want to know the reason Herc can't beat Supes or Marvel, check the Hulk vs Supes thread."
So even considering Superman hardly uses speedblitz attacks and skill moves we have to pretend that they are going to?
Why in the same manner we dont consider that Herc has tagged speedsters then and that strength by strength none of the DC team is really above?
- - -
" Yes, I understand all of that. Hercules, Wonder Man, and Namor are all very strong and very durable. However they lack the necessary speed and versatility to compete with these guys. Wonder Man can fly, but has nothing on Supes and Marvel's speed level. They fly at the speed of light, I haven't ever seen Wonder Man do "
Three of the Avengers can fly. IM has the versability. WMan is the most durable here outside of Marvel. Wman during his solo series showed speed on the level of stating that everything to him moved at slow motion.
And Superman as well as Marvel hardly use ftls. How is consistence applying an ability they hardly use as " theyll just fly faster than ligth and the figth is over " even when we know they never do that at first.
Isent that almost as saying " flier x gets ground based character y into the sun and the figth is over"? They can do that after all, cant they.
- - -
"Hercules's powers are virtually useless here because all he has are super strength and durability. Cap Marvel and Superman have delt with their fare share of brutes before. I doubt Hercules would present a problem to them"
And Herc has dealt with fliers before and put them down. So has Hulk. Theres a reason why it isent considered an instant win just because you happen to fly. An advantage isent a victory.
Now logically Herc one on one with either of this DC crew will lose the majority. Why? Because he isent versatible enough to take most of the figths. But as you notice i dont say hes going to lose all, even if its all powers used. No top tier does.
That being said you most all been asking to yourselfs " but thats what we are saying! He wont be able to beat either alone for the majoriy, let alone two! Then why are you going over this Olympian!"
The answer is: backup. Top tier backup. They wont give the same attention to all at the same time. That leaves them with the guard down.
And in that case if it gets h2h theres no way i give either of the DC team the majority over this guy.
- - -
"Namor is the weaklink here. He's nowhere near as strong and is fast, granted, but isn't any where near as fast as they are"
Exactly what i described with a post above. It isent possible that a top tier character is "nowhere near as strong" as another top tier in relation. No way.
And never one that has beaten Hulk and put BRB down. This misconception needs to be cleared out. Even Rhino who is below with considerable leap of the top tier range has punched someone out of orbit.
- - -
"One good shazam lightning bolt would put him down"
Namor is obviously the most vulnerable here because of the heat. However DarkCrawler can tell if he has taken these kind of attacks or not. I need to do another check to his respect thread.
- - -
"Ironman is just as versatile as CM and SM, but he's extremely slow when in comparrison to the two. Besides, his energy projection isn't as strong as theirs is."
IM nowadays has the speed issue covered for the most part.
- - -
"Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man are basically non-factors in this fight because of their lack of versatility"
What an exageration of monumental proportions.
- - -
"When superman goes insane every once in a while (the writers love for him to go insane or have somone take control of his mind, esp as of late) he doesn't have to much of a problem almost KILLING wonder woman on two or three occasions."
And yet on those two ocassions he was out to kill her, he failed. Cleary failed.
And Superman isent the only who is allowed to get insane. Every character is more battle savy when its not holding back.
- - -
"two are landlocked and I think you guys are understimating supes and Marvels energy beams"
The only landlock here its Herc. And he doesnt have that much problems with fliers. At least from his record.
Underestimating Supes energy beams? Not really. Thor took it at close range without having Mjolnir to deflect it. Herc is on his range of durabilty. In some extreme cases, above.
WMan is more durable than either on average. Namor would be the only one with problems. IM probably can take it too, the man has gone against SS in the past after all.
Magic ligthing? Not an instant ko either save for Namor. Herc has taken a magic ligthing attack from a Thor that was on to kill him and was still up. In fact the attack itself was boosted by Christal in order to also hit Thor itself, and save him from the mind control.
If i belived this was easy just because the others are more versatible than at least one Avenger here, id go with it.
But i dont.
Originally posted by olympian
"The rules of the forum state that all characters will be fighting with the best of their abilities. That means a lot of speed, flying and energy attacks on the Marvel team. If you want to know the reason Herc can't beat Supes or Marvel, check the Hulk vs Supes thread."So even considering Superman hardly uses speedblitz attacks and skill moves we have to pretend that they are going to?
Why in the same manner we dont consider that Herc has tagged speedsters then and that strength by strength none of the DC team is really above?
- - -
" Yes, I understand all of that. Hercules, Wonder Man, and Namor are all very strong and very durable. However they lack the necessary speed and versatility to compete with these guys. Wonder Man can fly, but has nothing on Supes and Marvel's speed level. They fly at the speed of light, I haven't ever seen Wonder Man do "
Three of the Avengers can fly. IM has the versability. WMan is the most durable here outside of Marvel. Wman during his solo series showed speed on the level of stating that everything to him moved at slow motion.
And Superman as well as Marvel hardly use ftls. How is consistence applying an ability they hardly use as " theyll just fly faster than ligth and the figth is over " even when we know they never do that at first.
Isent that almost as saying " flier x gets ground based character y into the sun and the figth is over"? They can do that after all, cant they.
- - -
"Hercules's powers are virtually useless here because all he has are super strength and durability. Cap Marvel and Superman have delt with their fare share of brutes before. I doubt Hercules would present a problem to them"
And Herc has dealt with fliers before and put them down. So has Hulk. Theres a reason why it isent considered an instant win just because you happen to fly. An advantage isent a victory.
Now logically Herc one on one with either of this DC crew will lose the majority. Why? Because he isent versatible enough to take most of the figths. But as you notice i dont say hes going to lose all, even if its all powers used. No top tier does.
That being said you most all been asking to yourselfs " but thats what we are saying! He wont be able to beat either alone for the majoriy, let alone two! Then why are you going over this Olympian!"
The answer is: backup. Top tier backup. They wont give the same attention to all at the same time. That leaves them with the guard down.
And in that case if it gets h2h theres no way i give either of the DC team the majority over this guy.
- - -
"Namor is the weaklink here. He's nowhere near as strong and is fast, granted, but isn't any where near as fast as they are"
Exactly what i described with a post above. It isent possible that a top tier character is "nowhere near as strong" as another top tier in relation. No way.
And never one that has beaten Hulk and put BRB down. This misconception needs to be cleared out. Even Rhino who is below with considerable leap of the top tier range has punched someone out of orbit.
- - -
"One good shazam lightning bolt would put him down"
Namor is obviously the most vulnerable here because of the heat. However DarkCrawler can tell if he has taken these kind of attacks or not. I need to do another check to his respect thread.
- - -
"Ironman is just as versatile as CM and SM, but he's extremely slow when in comparrison to the two. Besides, his energy projection isn't as strong as theirs is."
IM nowadays has the speed issue covered for the most part.
- - -
"Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man are basically non-factors in this fight because of their lack of versatility"
What an exageration of monumental proportions.
- - -
"When superman goes insane every once in a while (the writers love for him to go insane or have somone take control of his mind, esp as of late) he doesn't have to much of a problem almost KILLING wonder woman on two or three occasions."
And yet on those two ocassions he was out to kill her, he failed. Cleary failed.
And Superman isent the only who is allowed to get insane. Every character is more battle savy when its not holding back.
- - -
"two are landlocked and I think you guys are understimating supes and Marvels energy beams"
The only landlock here its Herc. And he doesnt have that much problems with fliers. At least from his record.
Underestimating Supes energy beams? Not really. Thor took it at close range without having Mjolnir to deflect it. Herc is on his range of durabilty. In some extreme cases, above.
WMan is more durable than either on average. Namor would be the only one with problems. IM probably can take it too, the man has gone against SS in the past after all.
Magic ligthing? Not an instant ko either save for Namor. Herc has taken a magic ligthing attack from a Thor that was on to kill him and was still up. In fact the attack itself was boosted by Christal in order to also hit Thor itself, and save him from the mind control.
Take my word on it. If i belived this was easy just because the others are more versatible than at least one Avenger here, id go with it.
But i dont belive.
Yeah, if these guys go hand to hand against Hercules, they would probably lose. However, if Superman utilizes his fighting speed, Hercules would lose horribly. Like this:
http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanfightingathighspeeds7l.jpg
I think you are severly underestimating Superman's speed advantage over other opponents. It's really incredible. Here he is owning a bunch of powerful characters that are more powerful than the line-up in the thread.
http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermangoingallout6pd.jpg
http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermangoingallout29qk.jpg
And here:
http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermangoingallout32ft.jpg
He's too versatile for this team to handle. Same goes for Captain Marvel.
Here's Superman vibrating his body invisible.
http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermangoininvisible6iv.jpg
Here he is vibrating through Doomsday's lightning/fire breath.
http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanintangible8wa.jpg
So as I was saying, Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man mean absolutely nothing in this fight. Superman and CM are more versatile than these guys could ever dream of being. And you comparing WM's speed to these two is laughable.
You're also underestimating Superman's fighting ability. Here he is taking Mongul to school with nothing but pure h2h.
http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanfightingmongul5tx.jpg
http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanfightingmongul24sr.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanfightingmongul33lm.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanfightingmongul43lk.jpg
So as I hope you can see, Wonder Man, Namor, and Hercules are WAY too uni-dimensional to ever hope to compete with Supes and Captain Marvel. Ironman would be the biggest threat against SM and CM, but he would get taken down. Superman and Captain Marvel win this 8-9/10.
"Yeah, if these guys go hand to hand against Hercules, they would probably lose. However, if Superman utilizes his fighting speed, Hercules would lose horribly. Like this:"
The same Imperiex Probes that BL has destroyed. Theyr record isent that high all things considered. Hypollita did well too, rigth? Like other heroes off panel.
- - -
"Can someone explain to me how Woder Man is considered more durable than Superman?"
He is made of energy. Ionic energy now. He doesnt need to breath for example. Durability its his greatest asset.
- - -
"I think you are severly underestimating Superman's speed advantage over other opponents. It's really incredible. Here he is owning a bunch of powerful characters that are more powerful than the line-up in the thread."
If those wer the only scans of the whole figth id migth get -that-impressed. As things went down, im not. None of them wer knocked out or beaten despise the speed advantage.
Its an advantage, not a victory mark.
About more powerful, you have at least three guys that arent above or equal with this team. Starfire, BL and Katana. In fact they are below.
- - -
" as I was saying, Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man mean absolutely nothing in this fight. Superman and CM are more versatile than these guys could ever dream of being. And you comparing WM's speed to these two is laughable."
Rigth. Its not like at least two of the Avengers dont have actually superspeed now.
Lets see what its the view of IM powerset now:
http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?rpl=060526141724
and more:
http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?trd=060501140157&q=iron%20man
Now scroll below the page and see his recent figth with Graviton:
http://www.superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=110717&highlight=extremis+iron+man
The way IM is using his powers as of late its insane. About speed his reaction time has improved heaps. You have Wman also who is of course fast and pretty much sees stuff in slow motion due to that same speed. That was during his late solo series.
You act like Superman can speedblitz faster than ligth or being the only one here who can pull that one up.
- - -
"You're also underestimating Superman's fighting ability. Here he is taking Mongul to school with nothing but pure h2h."
What h2h skill did he showed there? Grabbing Monguls punch? H2h is what he did when he was empersonating Hercules during the "exile" period against Monguls father.
And while hes good, hes not the skillest of the uber fellas. WW is above. Herc is above. Thor is above. Black Bolt is above. Warlock is above.
- - -
"Superman and Captain Marvel win this 8-9/10"
You know my opinion. No way they take these four as much as that. And neither easily.
Originally posted by olympian
"Yeah, if these guys go hand to hand against Hercules, they would probably lose. However, if Superman utilizes his fighting speed, Hercules would lose horribly. Like this:"The same Imperiex Probes that BL has destroyed. Theyr record isent that high all things considered. Hypollita did well too, rigth?
- - -
"Can someone explain to me how Woder Man is considered more durable than Superman?"
Hes made of energy. Ionic energy now. He doesnt need to breath or other stuff like that.
- - -
"I think you are severly underestimating Superman's speed advantage over other opponents. It's really incredible. Here he is owning a bunch of powerful characters that are more powerful than the line-up in the thread."
If those wer the only scans of the whole figth id migth get -that-impressed. As things went down, im not. None of them wer knocked out or beaten despise the speed advantage.
Its an advantage, not a victory mark.
About more powerful, you have at least three guys that arent above or equal with this team. Starfire, BL and Katana. In fact they are below.
- - -
" as I was saying, Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man mean absolutely nothing in this fight. Superman and CM are more versatile than these guys could ever dream of being. And you comparing WM's speed to these two is laughable."
Rigth. Its not like at least two of the Avengers have actually superspeed now.
Lets see what its the view of IM powerset now:
http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?rpl=060526141724
and more:
http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?trd=060501140157&q=iron%20man
Now scroll below the page and see his recent figth with Graviton:
http://www.superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=110717&highlight=extremis+iron+man
The way IM is using his powers as of late its insane. About speed his reaction time has improved heaps. You have Wman also who is of course fast and pretty much sees stuff in slow motion due to that same speed. That was before he became ionic.
You act like Superman can speedblitz faster than ligth or being the only one here who can pull that one up.
- - -
"You're also underestimating Superman's fighting ability. Here he is taking Mongul to school with nothing but pure h2h."
What h2h skill did he showed there? Grabbing Monguls punch? H2h is what he did when he was empersonating Hercules during the "exile" period against Monguls father.
- - -
"Superman and Captain Marvel win this 8-9/10"
You know my opinion. No way they take these four as much as that. And neither easily.
Yeah, maybe I was a bit overzealous with the 8-9/10, but they would still take the majority. I have acknowledged that Ironman would be the biggest threat, but he would still go down. And don't give me the whole "the fight wasn't very impressive" speach. Batman and Superman straight up BEAT all those guys convincingly. These guys don't have the necessary abilities to take these two down, at least not for the majority. Superman's senses would mean that he would never get touched. This pic demonstrates his senses as well as his speed.
http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ssenses3vq.jpg
You still haven't told me how the Marvel four could deal with Superman vibrating his molecules intangible or invisible. This would mean that he would never get touched. Face it, the team is severly lacking in the versatility department save Ironman. The Marvel team would lose 7/10.
"And don't give me the whole "the fight wasn't very impressive" speach. Batman and Superman straight up BEAT all those guys convincingly."
I have to give that speech because they werent neither beaten or out. What more you want me to say? What defeats you saw there exactly when everyone after the bleezing attack by Superman still got up without severe injuries save Katana whos merely human.
- - -
"You still haven't told me how the Marvel four could deal with Superman vibrating his molecules intangible or invisible"
Heat residual trace, maybe.
Nonetheless they will know hes around when he starts punching. and bideness will start to pick up.
Originally posted by olympian
"And don't give me the whole "the fight wasn't very impressive" speach. Batman and Superman straight up BEAT all those guys convincingly."I have to give that speech because they werent neither beaten or out. What more you want me to say? What defeats you saw there exactly when everyone after the bleezing attack by Superman still got up without severe injuries save Katana whos merely human.
- - -
"You still haven't told me how the Marvel four could deal with Superman vibrating his molecules intangible or invisible"
How about heat residual trace.
For Ironman, that's fine, but what about everybody else? 😬 And that would only be affective for Superman's invisibilty. What about his intangibility? He could easily walk right through any of their attacks.
