Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's definitely just a mind-boggling concept.I remember going to Mallorca (which conforms to Spain's laws I'd imagine) and thinking that I could be perfectly untouchable having sex with a 13 year old there, then fly home and by this country's standards, be branded a paedophile.
It's crazy.
-AC
Okay, i understand that fact AC....
It's true. NOT ALL 16 year olds can grasp the concept of sex, but those are the ones who were never even exposed to sexual lessons or education about it, much less probably unexposed to OTHER people thier age.
My point is age 12 is too young. I mean physically...most 12 year olds are just beginning thier sexual stages.
Mentally ? Their STILL KIDS......
Emotionally? ...hello hormones...
Does this mean that a 12 year old cannot give consent? Ofcourse they CAN, but is thier consent equivalent to the consent that an average 16 year old can give ?
Most 12 year olds are just starting to feel these urges and impulses. They need to learn more about them before they can make responsible decisions.
An adult pedophile knows full well a lot about his/her own sexuality, and regardless of whether this is thier intention or not: they are taking advantage of a young pre teen who is just starting to develop a sexual identity and may not even know what he or she truly wants yet.
It doesn't really matter if the consent is equal, it's consent.
If a girl says "Yes, I want you to do that, it's ok", I think it's rather pathetic for society to say: "Nah, you don't know what you were saying yes to." "I did." "No you didn't."
Whether she fully grasped it or not, she gave consent, she agreed. She didn't resist. You can't just ignore that in favour of nailing the guy who did it.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It doesn't really matter if the consent is equal, it's consent.If a girl says "Yes, I want you to do that, it's ok", I think it's rather pathetic for society to say: "Nah, you don't know what you were saying yes to." "I did." "No you didn't."
Whether she fully grasped it or not, she gave consent, she agreed. She didn't resist. You can't just ignore that in favour of nailing the guy who did it.
-AC
I agree
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It doesn't really matter if the consent is equal, it's consent.If a girl says "Yes, I want you to do that, it's ok", I think it's rather pathetic for society to say: "Nah, you don't know what you were saying yes to." "I did." "No you didn't."
Whether she fully grasped it or not, she gave consent, she agreed. She didn't resist. You can't just ignore that in favour of nailing the guy who did it.
-AC
How OLD is this girl you are using for an example ?
Children often give consent to the stupidest and most harmful things without realizing it.
For me, this is not about nailing someone.
There are a LOT of things that young teenagers cannot grasp: IE. Bullying...one kid finds pleasure in socially tormenting another kid his age for whatever selfish reasons come with it. The other kid usually takes it, if he's too afraid to fight back, and thinks its just normal for other kids to act this way, without realizing that his rights as a human, especially a human child, are being violated horribly.
There are young teenagers who think about suicide, not fully understanding what kind of damage they will do to thier family and those who love them if they go through with it. Often, they don't even know exactly WHY they are suicidal. They just recognize the depression and pain over things that in the end dont matter......
to be continued......
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
How OLD is this girl you are using for an example ?Children often give consent to the stupidest and most harmful things without realizing it.
For me, this is not about nailing someone.
There are a LOT of things that young teenagers cannot grasp: IE. Bullying...one kid finds pleasure in socially tormenting another kid his age for whatever selfish reasons come with it. The other kid usually takes it, if he's too afraid to fight back, and thinks its just normal for other kids to act this way, without realizing that his rights as a human, especially a human child, are being violated horribly.
There are young teenagers who think about suicide, not fully understanding what kind of damage they will do to thier family and those who love them if they go through with it. Often, they don't even know exactly WHY they are suicidal. They just recognize the depression and pain over things that in the end dont matter......
to be continued......
No, no, no. You are getting really baffled here, you're confusing the issue purposefully.
Read my post again. Whether they realise it or not, whether their giving of consent holds much weight or not, don't be so gung ho as to overlook the crucial fact that she gave consent.
You can't treat it as not giving consent. She gave concent and that needs to be accepted and kept in mind at all times.
If I had sex with a 12 year old but didn't force, harm or threaten her and was, infact, given her consent, I'd be pretty pissed if you tried to act like I did all those things.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, no, no. You are getting really baffled here, you're confusing the issue purposefully.Read my post again. Whether they realise it or not, whether their giving of consent holds much weight or not, don't be so gung ho as to overlook the crucial fact that she gave consent.
You can't treat it as not giving consent. She gave concent and that needs to be accepted and kept in mind at all times.
If I had sex with a 12 year old but didn't force, harm or threaten her and was, infact, given her consent, I'd be pretty pissed if you tried to act like I did all those things.
-AC
Dude, i wouldn't punish you for doing such a thing (unless it was my sister or sumthing LOL)
But I think children give consent based more on impulse and curiosity than anything else.
You don't think an adult who has sex with a child who had given consent in that way, is taking advantage of the child ????
The adult knows fully well what he or she is doing.
The 12 year old doesn't fully know what they are getting into, they just know what they are curious to find out.
For crying out loud, I actually feel like I'm talking to a brick wall.
Read carefully:
Regardless of why or how they gave consent, do not overlook that they gave consent. Ok? Obviously consider the issues, but don't overlook that the girl wasn't forced, harmed or threatened.
Recognise that she did give consent. That is crucial.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
For crying out loud, I actually feel like I'm talking to a brick wall.Read carefully:
Regardless of why or how they gave consent, do not overlook that [b]they gave consent
. Ok? Obviously consider the issues, but don't overlook that the girl wasn't forced, harmed or threatened.Recognise that she did give consent. That is crucial.
-AC [/B]
Did you READ my post ?
I thought I made it clear i did recognize the lack of force, and i do recognize an existance of consent, but i feel this consent is HALF ASS consent.
Consent only based on impulse and curiosity, not on any prior maturity or knowledge.....
No matter what the adult is taking advantage of the situation. That's all.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, but there's no resolve or progression to be found in ignoring the fact that she did give consent.-AC
Ofcourse not. It should definately be considered, and not referred to as "RAPE"....
I beleive RAPE is the wrong word when consent is involved.
However, the LAW recognized it as such, and you argued on the abortion thread that since the LAW recognizes murder in only one definition, and abortion as seperate, that THOSE Are the facts.
And since the Law recognizes a sexual relation between a 12 year old and someone above the age of 18, RAPE.....
Who are you to argue against the FACTS of LAW ?
You are sort of contradicting yourself here bro. 😉
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not saying it's not rape to a degree, it is.What I'm saying is that consent is all too often disregarded, it shouldn't be. No man should be treated like the worst kind of rapist if it was only technical rape. Not forceful or harmful.
-AC
I agree with you there. Sadly pedophiles are COMPLETELY misunderstood and given the "i like raping little kids" stereotype.
Not all pedophiles are like that. Pedophiles ALSO have a fixed sexuality, like Homosexuals and Bisexuals do.
I saw an interview with a Pedophile on Oprah, he is a virgin I beleive, but he said he only gets aroused by thoughts of young girls.
When he was 11 he was still attracted to 9 year old girls, and as he got older, the ATTRACTION never evolved with his age.
That's sad.
But it is still statuatory rape. The Consent a 12 year old gives in terms of sexual activity is still an immature and impulsive one, not a consent that is equal to someone who is 16 or up.
Understand, the NATURE of the consent also has to be considered, not just the EXISTANCE of the consent. 😉
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It doesn't really matter if the consent is equal, it's consent.If a girl says "Yes, I want you to do that, it's ok", I think it's rather pathetic for society to say: "Nah, you don't know what you were saying yes to." "I did." "No you didn't."
Whether she fully grasped it or not, she gave consent, she agreed. She didn't resist. You can't just ignore that in favour of nailing the guy who did it.
-AC
So you would not have a problem if you had a 13 year-old daughter who consented to sex with a 26, 30 or even 50 year old man, right ?
I'm not saying take the consent as adult consent am I? I'm saying consider that there was consent and maybe a guy doesn't have to be treated like a forced rapist when no such thin occured.
Does it go in one eye and out the other with you? Seriously? I make a post, you say you agree, then go on to recycle what I've said.
-AC