Thats the whole point. Some posters are making it out to be that im saying that Herc will win against Supes if all powers are used in the way they want to.
Then along came how he would fare in other ways.
Wich in that case what im saying is he does good if the match gets to be a close one (like slugfests never happened before) and he only dominates if that close match turns into his speciality. A H2H (like those also never happened before).
glare
I have enjoyed this thread tho. I read the most fabulous gems here. No doubt.
Originally posted by olympian
"hercules does not HAVE top tier durability. someone with top tier durability does NOT get ko'd by . . . WOLVERINE!!! "weep
The same Wolverine who has injured and cut even Savage Hulk? And Grey Hulk who took a HE blast without getting winded down? That same Wolverine?
Im curious to see how you will answer the Hulk examples tho.
- - -
"you think wolverine is gonna ko superman??"
In a comic done by Marvel? You can bet your ass on it. The guy has ripped and cut Hulk after all. And put him down.
Do you know how Wolverine even ko Herc? I dont, they never showed us that. Off panel wonder.
- - -
"even in your respect thread you directed us to, he has only a couple good durability feats! facing down the possessor was pretty good, the hera showing is all right. a nice scewed impression of him withstanding the beyonder. that was actually cm that hit him"
http://img18.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc189&image=08740_ilive.jpg
So Beyonder isent attacking Hercules here?
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/3909/avengers261176hf.jpg
And neither here?
Crisis. And i tough you actually had common sense on you. Nope. A guy who takes mjolnir shots that sent Supes flying and crying for his mommy isent top tier durability. Neither getting up after Beyonder attacks, neither uber Korvac, neither Hulk punches. neither Thor punches, neither energy blasts, neither godly attacks. Nada.
- - -
"against those not-very-impressive feats you have sersi physically defeating him with 2 shots -- a punch and a throw"
And that Sersi would punk Superman. Or your claiming otherwise?
- - -
"a small group of ector's robots ko'd him."
And he goes well against the real deal, and of all the Avengers there hes the only one who puts him down physically.
- - -
"a fall from a quinjet was survived, but he gets up and admits he is dizzy"
And then he does other things like finishing up a vortex created by Beyonder when the other Avengers CM included, couldnt and survives the whole fall just fine.
Like getting trown from Mount Olympus to down there or even jumping from Mt Olympus like seen in Ares # 3.
If your going to use low showings i can use Superman been knocked out by Silver Banshee after both fell from the Daily planet, or falling down by Tank shots from above.
Nevermind electricity that he always took up fine, huh?
- - -
"thor and herc both took a single blast. thor was back in the fight at the end, herc was still ko'd. even wonderman got back in the fight!"
Watch me dissect your argument like butter:
Herc took two blasts. Not one, but two.
http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/7305/avengers177067lx7xg.jpg
First Korvac is blasting him with his right hand and then with his left. One blast and he tells him how hes going to beat him and another after the boast to kill him. Two blasts.
Thor got winded down after the only blast he took.
Wman was never blasted by Korvac.
- - -
" in the respect thread you have him taking artillery and missles and a HEADBUTT?? those are feats?? not very impressive at all. "
But Snoop said that Batman chopping DD clones with an axe was indicative of high durability for them weep
Taking missils and artillery its always a good showing for any top tier. I bet you even tough that Herc couldnt even take bullets. See how we helped ya?
Heck WW who took Superman punches in 219 cant take them.
- - -
"ww has survived and was only momentarily ko'd by a punch that had her fly from sun to earth!"
And yet she cant take bullets without her bracelets.
- - -
"superman has withstood PLANET destroying blasts, millions of nukes, the list is endless. you cannot hope to win a comparison of durability between herc and superman. it is NOT close. they are not in the same tier"
If you stopped a moment to read what its been said here you would know that i never even once said that Superman and Hercules wer equal in durability. I said and do it again for the last time, so pay attention: There are characters like Supes who are slighty above the other top tiers in some aspects. Like durability.
And others also top tiers who are below. Like WW.
Herc fits in the middle. Hes more durable than WW but definatly less than Supes.
What i said more? That in battles they dont showcase the durability aspect much, but instead they show the battle soak ability more. WW cant take bullets and artillery without her protection but takes Supes punches and minor hv on her face. Thats to show how tough she is.
Superman takes million on nukes but gets bleeded and winded down when WW uses skill moves on him. Got it now? Need i make a drawing of this? Its not trouble at all, i enjoy drawing.
- - -
"strength? maybe. but not by direct comparison of in-book feats. herc drags the helicarrier, pulls manhattan. superman lifts and throws starships that are the sizes of moons! feat for feat, hercules simply cannot compete with superman."
So Superman has punched an interdimenional gateway and generated force to knock Earth out of orbit? How many strenght planetary stuff he has without a boost.
Herc has done everything from his labours, to never lose against Thor or Hulk at full power, to planetary level feats and above to trow stuff out the planets orbit.
No boost.
- - -
"even in a h2h fight (which is silly because it would never happen that way) superman would win the majority"
No.
And sure it can happen. If Superman gets close and Herc grabs him it turns into that style of fight.
More silly is you selling out the ideia that Superman always fights with speedblitz and faster than lights speeds when he doesnt. He usually goes for the slugfest.
But dont let that ruin your logic.
- - -
"why does ww do well? MAGIC. SPEED. FLIGHT. AND skill"
Magic doesnt come into play in a H2H match Leo. Speed, only in reflexes.
Skill mostly, and its how she lowers the gap between them.
You still dont know what H2H is. Amazing. But read below, ill help you.
- - -
"multidimensional herc is captain marvel or wonderwoman. a one dimensional ww or cm is herc and he gets his ass killed by superman."
Still dont know what a H2H is:
Hand-to-hand (mêlée) combat is combat at very close range, touching the opponent with the body (striking, kicking, strangling, etc.) and/or with a mêlée weapon (knives, swords, batons, etc.), as opposed to firing or throwing a projectile. Hand-to-hand combat can be divided into three sections depending on the distance and positioning of the combatants:
Stand-up fighting
Clinch fighting
Ground fightingHope that helps.
- - -
"oh, and if you think wonderman or namor would give superman a fight, well . . . i'll respectfully disagree. hulk? maybe a little closer."
Anybody in the top tier group can pose a fight to the other. Neither of these two are going to win against him alone or take half of the fights with the underwater notable exception. But can they pose a fight? Yes. Can they hurt him with theyr punches? Yes. They arent a class below or anything you people make it out to be.
Hulk wins against Superman in a slugfest. Aka Supes fighting like he did in DOS.
- - -
"herc might take a couple, as i said, but that IS limiting superman, regardless of how you couch it"
Slugfest isent hand to hand. Its punching the guy until he goes down and using what you normally use. Kind of a streeth fight. On that one its close between both but i can well see a slight edge on Supes side.
And its not limiting no. You just need to accept the fact that what Superman usually uses in a fight isent enough to defeat top tier guys.
And appearantly not even when hes mad on.
Another thing you need to accept its that one style can change to another if given the chance. WW started with a slug against Mad Superman and it finished with a more H2H match where she has more advantages.
😆
all that for me!? i should be honoured. too bad it's a load of drivel. i SHOULD have stopped reading when you said wolverine would beat superman! but, i dared to press on!
about your hulk point: i have no idea what point you're trying to make. wolvie has cut hulk? yes . . . so? hulk's healing is at least as much a part of his durability as his skin. and wolvie has never downed savage hulk. so . . . what's your point again?
you are, flat out, amazing when it comes to scans . . . do you HAVE the cm issue? i'm not gonna waste my time getting a scan. on the previous page . . . BEYONDER ABSORBS CM. IN THE SCAN YOU SHOW, HE SENDS HER BACK AT THE AVENGERS!!. it is NOT the beyonder's power in that scan, it is cm's! and you think b is attacking herc in the scan where he proves he can break his grip?? 😆 he wasn't 'attacking'. he 'broke his grip'. you need to be careful, because it ALMOST sounds like you think herc could take the beyonder . . .
one of my favourite parts of your gs-like essay is the 'korvac attacks twice' bit. man, you and scans . . . do you actually see a 'break' between these '2' attacks? he switched hands?? 🤨 looks more like he uses 2 hands to continue the SAME attack to me. in any event, it's what the bigboy debaters like to call . . . 'groundless speculation'. and such a stupid point that i wouldn't have brought it up except, well, it does go to show your remarkable inconsistency. as usual, you bring up herc's holding the earth as a canon feat (when even the respect thread author doesn't say it is definitively canon . . .) now, you'll spend so much time picking apart a scan, using those remarkable powers of perception that we should all be in awe of, telling me 'look leo, he switched hands! it must be 2 attacks!' when we never even see 2 seperate attacks, then, without apparent qualm you'll claim a scene where . . . HERCULES IS SHOWN AS BEING NEARLY THE SAME SIZE AS THE PLANET EARTH as canon!! 😆 ohh, you MUST have been DEARLY begging that they would show him doing that again in the newest mini! you would likely have been begging they even MENTIONED the feat in that mini! they didn't even bother depicting it when they flashed the scene of him reclaiming the apples. hmmm . . . i wonder why? surely the greatest strength feat in marvel comics history was deserving of at least a tiny recap, or mention. hmmm . . . 😖hifty:
oh, and GRREEEAATTTT job 'dissecting' my argument. 😆 and thanks for sharing that bullets don't hurt herc. i swear, by jiminy, where would we all be if it weren't for you and your pearls of wisdom?
'oly's laws of h2h combat' btw, were a highlight for me, though. so, once again, a boxing match isn't considered h2h because, well, one guy may be able to punch faster than another . . .? 😕 priceless. martial arts? no, cuz one guy may be able to attack faster. i know -- rock-em-sock-em-robots are an example of 'oly's h2h2 combat'!! whew, thanks for clearing that up. oh yeah, superman gets into those kinds of fights all the time. sure herc could 'drag him into one' by just grabbing him. not like he'd have ANY defense against that . . .
so is superspeed a part of his 'usual' fighting style? how about his other powers? which ones exactly? as long as you're making rules, you might as well make all of them. i think you said no to speed because that's only been used often enough for you recently. so tell us: what doesn't he usually not use to lose to any top tier guy who stands on the ground as fights like usual by trying to strangle him as they in turn use no powers and just punch without magic?
😆
again, stupid beyond rebuttal. and for the luv'a gawd, stop making up definitions for subjective terms.
oh, and show somewhere where i said he always fights with speedblitz . . .? i would never say that -- it breaks your rules of h2h and slugfests!
anyway, before we close this little tete-a-tete, let's look at the most priceless piece in your whole collection, shall we . . .? i have already highlighted the brilliance of 'oly's laws of h2h combat' (i really do love that . . .) but this little diddy takes the cake. come with me now as we take a journey to what i like to call . . . 'oly's land of no-logic!'
And its not limiting no. You just need to accept the fact that what Superman usually uses in a fight isent enough to defeat top tier guys.
😍
do you really understand what you've just said here . . .? i'll not bother pointing out the nonsensical nature of this statement. there are some out there (you clever ones know who you are . . . ) who will understand. for you others . . . c'est la vie.
always a pleasure, oly. 😉
(and here i thought we'd set aside all our petty differences . . .)
Originally posted by leonidas
all that for me!? i should be honoured. too bad it's a load of drivel. i SHOULD have stopped reading when you said wolverine would beat superman! but, i dared to press on!about your hulk point: i have no idea what point you're trying to make. wolvie has cut hulk? yes . . . so? hulk's healing is at least as much a part of his durability as his skin. and wolvie has never downed savage hulk. so . . . what's your point again?
you are, flat out, amazing when it comes to scans . . . do you HAVE the cm issue? i'm not gonna waste my time getting a scan. on the previous page . . . BEYONDER ABSORBS CM. IN THE SCAN YOU SHOW, HE SENDS HER BACK AT THE AVENGERS!!. it is NOT the beyonder's power in that scan, it is cm's! and you think b is attacking herc in the scan where he proves he can break his grip?? 😆 he wasn't 'attacking'. he 'broke his grip'. you need to be careful, because it ALMOST sounds like you think herc could take the beyonder . . .
one of my favourite parts of your gs-like essay is the 'korvac attacks twice' bit. man, you and scans . . . do you actually see a 'break' between these '2' attacks? he switched hands?? 🤨 looks more like he uses 2 hands to continue the SAME attack to me. in any event, it's what the bigboy debaters like to call . . . 'groundless speculation'. and such a stupid point that i wouldn't have brought it up except, well, it does go to show your remarkable inconsistency. as usual, you bring up herc's holding the earth as a canon feat (when even the respect thread author doesn't say it is definitively canon . . .) now, you'll spend so much time picking apart a scan, using those remarkable powers of perception that we should all be in awe of, telling me 'look leo, he switched hands! it must be 2 attacks!' when we never even see 2 seperate attacks, then, without apparent qualm you'll claim a scene where . . . HERCULES IS SHOWN AS BEING NEARLY THE SAME SIZE AS THE PLANET EARTH as canon!! 😆 ohh, you MUST have been DEARLY begging that they would show him doing that again in the newest mini! you would likely have been begging they even MENTIONED the feat in that mini! they didn't even bother depicting it when they flashed the scene of him reclaiming the apples. hmmm . . . i wonder why? surely the greatest strength feat in marvel comics history was deserving of at least a tiny recap, or mention. hmmm . . . 😖hifty:
oh, and GRREEEAATTTT job 'dissecting' my argument. 😆 and thanks for sharing that bullets don't hurt herc. i swear, by jiminy, where would we all be if it weren't for you and your pearls of wisdom?
'oly's laws of h2h combat' btw, were a highlight for me, though. so, once again, a boxing match isn't considered h2h because, well, one guy may be able to punch faster than another . . .? 😕 priceless. martial arts? no, cuz one guy may be able to attack faster. i know -- rock-em-sock-em-robots are an example of 'oly's h2h2 combat'!! whew, thanks for clearing that up. oh yeah, superman gets into those kinds of fights all the time. sure herc could 'drag him into one' by just grabbing him. not like he'd have ANY defense against that . . .
so is superspeed a part of his 'usual' fighting style? how about his other powers? which ones exactly? as long as you're making rules, you might as well make all of them. i think you said no to speed because that's only been used often enough for you recently. so tell us: what doesn't he usually not use to lose to any top tier guy who stands on the ground as fights like usual by trying to strangle him as they in turn use no powers and just punch without magic?
😆
again, stupid beyond rebuttal. and for the luv'a gawd, stop making up definitions for subjective terms.
oh, and show somewhere where i said he always fights with speedblitz . . .? i would never say that -- it breaks your rules of h2h and slugfests!
anyway, before we close this little tete-a-tete, let's look at the most priceless piece in your whole collection, shall we . . .? i have already highlighted the brilliance of 'oly's laws of h2h combat' (i really do love that . . .) but this little diddy takes the cake. come with me now as we take a journey to what i like to call . . . 'oly's land of no-logic!'
😍
do you really understand what you've just said here . . .? i'll not bother pointing out the nonsensical nature of this statement. there are some out there (you clever ones know who you are . . . ) who will understand. for you others . . . c'est la vie.
always a pleasure, oly. 😉
(and here i thought we'd set aside all our petty differences . . .)
DAMN! Olympian just got OWNED!
Originally posted by leonidas
all that for me!? i should be honoured. too bad it's a load of drivel. i SHOULD have stopped reading when you said wolverine would beat superman! but, i dared to press on!about your hulk point: i have no idea what point you're trying to make. wolvie has cut hulk? yes . . . so? hulk's healing is at least as much a part of his durability as his skin. and wolvie has never downed savage hulk. so . . . what's your point again?
you are, flat out, amazing when it comes to scans . . . do you HAVE the cm issue? i'm not gonna waste my time getting a scan. on the previous page . . . BEYONDER ABSORBS CM. IN THE SCAN YOU SHOW, HE SENDS HER BACK AT THE AVENGERS!!. it is NOT the beyonder's power in that scan, it is cm's! and you think b is attacking herc in the scan where he proves he can break his grip?? 😆 he wasn't 'attacking'. he 'broke his grip'. you need to be careful, because it ALMOST sounds like you think herc could take the beyonder . . .
one of my favourite parts of your gs-like essay is the 'korvac attacks twice' bit. man, you and scans . . . do you actually see a 'break' between these '2' attacks? he switched hands?? 🤨 looks more like he uses 2 hands to continue the SAME attack to me. in any event, it's what the bigboy debaters like to call . . . 'groundless speculation'. and such a stupid point that i wouldn't have brought it up except, well, it does go to show your remarkable inconsistency. as usual, you bring up herc's holding the earth as a canon feat (when even the respect thread author doesn't say it is definitively canon . . .) now, you'll spend so much time picking apart a scan, using those remarkable powers of perception that we should all be in awe of, telling me 'look leo, he switched hands! it must be 2 attacks!' when we never even see 2 seperate attacks, then, without apparent qualm you'll claim a scene where . . . HERCULES IS SHOWN AS BEING NEARLY THE SAME SIZE AS THE PLANET EARTH as canon!! 😆 ohh, you MUST have been DEARLY begging that they would show him doing that again in the newest mini! you would likely have been begging they even MENTIONED the feat in that mini! they didn't even bother depicting it when they flashed the scene of him reclaiming the apples. hmmm . . . i wonder why? surely the greatest strength feat in marvel comics history was deserving of at least a tiny recap, or mention. hmmm . . . 😖hifty:
oh, and GRREEEAATTTT job 'dissecting' my argument. 😆 and thanks for sharing that bullets don't hurt herc. i swear, by jiminy, where would we all be if it weren't for you and your pearls of wisdom?
'oly's laws of h2h combat' btw, were a highlight for me, though. so, once again, a boxing match isn't considered h2h because, well, one guy may be able to punch faster than another . . .? 😕 priceless. martial arts? no, cuz one guy may be able to attack faster. i know -- rock-em-sock-em-robots are an example of 'oly's h2h2 combat'!! whew, thanks for clearing that up. oh yeah, superman gets into those kinds of fights all the time. sure herc could 'drag him into one' by just grabbing him. not like he'd have ANY defense against that . . .
so is superspeed a part of his 'usual' fighting style? how about his other powers? which ones exactly? as long as you're making rules, you might as well make all of them. i think you said no to speed because that's only been used often enough for you recently. so tell us: what doesn't he usually not use to lose to any top tier guy who stands on the ground as fights like usual by trying to strangle him as they in turn use no powers and just punch without magic?
😆
again, stupid beyond rebuttal. and for the luv'a gawd, stop making up definitions for subjective terms.
oh, and show somewhere where i said he always fights with speedblitz . . .? i would never say that -- it breaks your rules of h2h and slugfests!
anyway, before we close this little tete-a-tete, let's look at the most priceless piece in your whole collection, shall we . . .? i have already highlighted the brilliance of 'oly's laws of h2h combat' (i really do love that . . .) but this little diddy takes the cake. come with me now as we take a journey to what i like to call . . . 'oly's land of no-logic!'
😍
do you really understand what you've just said here . . .? i'll not bother pointing out the nonsensical nature of this statement. there are some out there (you clever ones know who you are . . . ) who will understand. for you others . . . c'est la vie.
always a pleasure, oly. 😉
(and here i thought we'd set aside all our petty differences . . .)
"all that for me!? i should be honoured. too bad it's a load of drivel. i SHOULD have stopped reading when you said wolverine would beat superman! but, i dared to press on!"
Sure thing. Loadz of crappola needs to ne answered.
And how about answering. Did Wolverine laid down or not laid down the Hulk.
Done by Marvel glare never happened right?
- - -
"about your hulk point: i have no idea what point you're trying to make. wolvie has cut hulk? yes . . . so? hulk's healing is at least as much a part of his durability as his skin. and wolvie has never downed savage hulk. so . . . what's your point again?"
Stabbing him, cutting him, putting him down, oppening a hole thro his chest, cutting Savages eyes.
Whats my point? How about doing something he shouldnt even be able to, Lion king Jr?
- - -
"you are, flat out, amazing when it comes to scans . . . do you HAVE the cm issue? i'm not gonna waste my time getting a scan. on the previous page . . . BEYONDER ABSORBS CM. IN THE SCAN YOU SHOW, HE SENDS HER BACK AT THE AVENGERS!!. it is NOT the beyonder's power in that scan, it is cm's! and you think b is attacking herc in the scan where he proves he can break his grip?? he wasn't 'attacking'. he 'broke his grip'. you need to be careful, because it ALMOST sounds like you think herc could take the beyonder ."
You claimed he never attacked the Avengers. Stealing power from someone and using it to attack someone else falls in that category.
And you still have an example of him taking his blasts that wer STATED to be easily ABOVE zeus power.
Can he take the Beyonder? Good luck finding where i said that 😆 are your glasses on?
This is a high feat of durability, same way Thor has and Superman has.
- - -
"one of my favourite parts of your gs-like essay is the 'korvac attacks twice' bit. man, you and scans . . . do you actually see a 'break' between these '2' attacks? he switched hands??"
If i see one? Sure i do. -First- Herc is blasted and takes it telling hes going to beat him and then hes blasted and gets killed.
Korvac used first one hand and another. You dont have to like it.
For someone as slow as you here goes. If he couldnt take two he would have gone down right away in the first panel Korvac started to blast him, -like Thor was and everyone else-
Still full of crap of someone who doesnt even know what a H2H match IS.
- - -
"as usual, you bring up herc's holding the earth as a canon feat (when even the respect thread author doesn't say it is definitively canon . . .)"
hysterical
I dont need a FAN saying if he belives its definite cannon or not. Marvel says so. At least twice it was stated IN continuity and ON panel that he did. You had that argument over and over whinning on about how you dont like it and how it makes you feel inferior tala " Hulk doesnt have it" syndrome sadwalk
Ill just ask you what ive been asking before regarding to this and that to this day you ALWAYS back down. Show me evidence from the comic that says he NEVER did it. Dont whine like a schoolgirl, SHOW ME. Until then its cannon and its in the high feat category.
In reality your whinning is nothing more than to hide your huge DOUBLE STANDART. Hulk punches an asteroid twice than Earths size and you dont whine. GLadiator punches a planet to dust in 3 shots and you dont whine. Hulk resists the anti matter and mater forces and you dont whine.
Did you also whined when Sooperman, WW and MM tried to move the Earth with a lariat and a laughable chain also? Must had been a cry river over your house. Can i swim in that poll one day?
- - -
" then, without apparent qualm you'll claim a scene where . . . HERCULES IS SHOWN AS BEING NEARLY THE SAME SIZE AS THE PLANET EARTH as canon!!"
Ah so you want actual perspective in comic books! jawdrop tell me then. If the artist had chosen to depict that scene in actual scientific manner, how would anyone be able to tell that Herc was even there?
And of course in actual perspective, Hulk could NEVER be seen deestroying an asteroid twice Earths size. And yet whe all SEE him. Wasent he way bigger than he should? What about moving the moon? What about moving Warworld and punching that planet to dust. We all see the characters in relation to those celestial objects when in reality none SHOULD be seen.
And Leo your damn right. It should all be done in scientific manner. Thats how you see Sooperman trying to move the Earth with....a chain glare
Now after you just got owned, prepare to realize this. REAl life PERSPECTIVE has no place in COMIC BOOKS.
Time to wake up, your in no age to belive in Santa Claus anymore. Either you accept all absurd feats or NONE. Hows gonna be?
- - -
"oh, and GRREEEAATTTT job 'dissecting' my argument. and thanks for sharing that bullets don't hurt herc. i swear, by jiminy, where would we all be if it weren't for you and your pearls of wisdom?"
You sure wouldnt know what a H2H match was weep
- - -
"oly's laws of h2h combat' btw, were a highlight for me, though. so, once again, a boxing match isn't considered h2h because, well, one guy may be able to punch faster than another . . .? priceless. martial arts? no, cuz one guy may be able to attack faster. i know -- rock-em-sock-em-robots are an example of 'oly's h2h2 combat'!!"
I posted a defination from the dictionary.
What h2h skill does a boxing match involves, Leo. Name them.
Cant wait to see this one. If punching someone alone is H2H then what is a Slugfest?
- - -
"whew, thanks for clearing that up. oh yeah, superman gets into those kinds of fights all the time. sure herc could 'drag him into one' by just grabbing him. not like he'd have ANY defense against that . . . "
Make a list of H2H Matches Sooperman has had. And im not the one who said he wouldnt have a chance. Im saying he doesnt have the high profile on it that WW and herc have and would lose the majority. You cant even get things straigh when your calling out someone.
Hilarious.
- - -
"ohh, you MUST have been DEARLY begging that they would show him doing that again in the newest mini! you would likely have been begging they even MENTIONED the feat in that mini!"
That mini did more than enough. It estabelized once more that his labours ARE cannon. Every single one of them. How we know?
a) the guy who did them in the first place was back. And on the job to make NEW ones. Thus the old ones existed in the marvel universe.
b) As stated in the last two ish, the reason in the first place of Herc doing those labours IS cannon. He killed his family when mad controlled by Hera. It was his penance.
c) We see a flasback of every single one of them.
- - -
"they didn't even bother depicting it when they flashed the scene of him reclaiming the apples. hmmm"
You wer already backed down on that one. It doesnt show either way. Just that porpuse of the labour wich was to get the apples.
". . . i wonder why? surely the greatest strength feat in marvel comics history was deserving of at least a tiny recap, or mention. hmmm . . ."
Its not the greatest feat. Him closing a dimensional door is more ridiculous. Neither its the greatest of Marvel.
And the flashback was to tell the porpuse behind each labour, not the circunstances. You should know, since the artist drew all that way.
Ah forgot about these gems:
"so is superspeed a part of his 'usual' fighting style? how about his other powers? which ones exactly? as long as you're making rules, you might as well make all of them."
Let me get this straight. The forum has a rule that ALL characters are fighting in a way the comics dont show in a blue moon or ever and your complaining of making rules?
If this was funny id laught. Oh wait, it IS.
Especially when Superman even bloodlust and operating on a higher level and using his speed (yes Leo his speed) AND figthing in a more ruthless manner doesnt even beat his fellow top tiers. Just look at his track record.
- - -
"And its not limiting no. You just need to accept the fact that what Superman usually uses in a fight isent enough to defeat top tier guys.
do you really understand what you've just said here . . .? i'll not bother pointing out the nonsensical nature of this statement. there are some out there (you clever ones know who you are . . . ) who will understand. for you others . . . c'est la vie."
Really? What he normally uses is a garantee win over others of the same group?
Lets just see that . Just look at Orion, Wonder Woman, Black Adam, Lobo and Captain Marvel. He ALWAYS wins against them, right.
What is his record against all of them in the way he normally operates to a higher level:
Two stalemates when stated to more powerful
Two loses when stated to be more powerful and in a killing frenze
Another stalemate when mind controlled by Dr Phycho against a guy that didnt wanted to fight
And the fights with Lobo are always entartaining, how many wins he has over a guy that doesnt even fly?
And Captain Marvel. He sure has alot of wins against him
doh
Enough to show that even with all that hes not physically above the top tier? Thats hes not owning anyone in that regard?
Originally posted by olympian
"all that for me!? i should be honoured. too bad it's a load of drivel. i SHOULD have stopped reading when you said wolverine would beat superman! but, i dared to press on!"Sure thing. Loadz of crappola needs to ne answered.
And how about answering. Did Wolverine laid down or not laid down the Hulk.
Done by Marvel glare never happened right?
- - -
"about your hulk point: i have no idea what point you're trying to make. wolvie has cut hulk? yes . . . so? hulk's healing is at least as much a part of his durability as his skin. and wolvie has never downed savage hulk. so . . . what's your point again?"
Stabbing him, cutting him, putting him down, oppening a hole thro his chest, cutting Savages eyes.
Whats my point? How about doing something he shouldnt even be able to, Lion king Jr?
- - -
"you are, flat out, amazing when it comes to scans . . . do you HAVE the cm issue? i'm not gonna waste my time getting a scan. on the previous page . . . BEYONDER ABSORBS CM. IN THE SCAN YOU SHOW, HE SENDS HER BACK AT THE AVENGERS!!. it is NOT the beyonder's power in that scan, it is cm's! and you think b is attacking herc in the scan where he proves he can break his grip?? he wasn't 'attacking'. he 'broke his grip'. you need to be careful, because it ALMOST sounds like you think herc could take the beyonder ."
You claimed he never attacked the Avengers. Stealing power from someone and using it to attack someone else falls in that category.
And you still have an example of him taking his blasts that wer STATED to be easily ABOVE zeus power.
Can he take the Beyonder? Good luck finding where i said that 😆 are your glasses on?
This is a high feat of durability, same way Thor has and Superman has.
- - -
"one of my favourite parts of your gs-like essay is the 'korvac attacks twice' bit. man, you and scans . . . do you actually see a 'break' between these '2' attacks? he switched hands??"
If i see one? Sure i do. -First- Herc is blasted and takes it telling hes going to beat him and then hes blasted and gets killed.
Korvac used first one hand and another. You dont have to like it.
For someone as slow as you here goes. If he couldnt take two he would have gone down right away in the first panel Korvac started to blast him, -like Thor was and everyone else-
Still full of crap of someone who doesnt even know what a H2H match IS.
- - -
"as usual, you bring up herc's holding the earth as a canon feat (when even the respect thread author doesn't say it is definitively canon . . .)"
hysterical
I dont need a FAN saying if he belives its definite cannon or not. Marvel says so. At least twice it was stated IN continuity and ON panel that he did. You had that argument over and over whinning on about how you dont like it and how it makes you feel inferior tala " Hulk doesnt have it" syndrome sadwalk
Ill just ask you what ive been asking before regarding to this and that to this day you ALWAYS back down. Show me evidence from the comic that says he NEVER did it. Dont whine like a schoolgirl, SHOW ME. Until then its cannon and its in the high feat category.
In reality your whinning is nothing more than to hide your huge DOUBLE STANDART. Hulk punches an asteroid twice than Earths size and you dont whine. GLadiator punches a planet to dust in 3 shots and you dont whine. Hulk resists the anti matter and mater forces and you dont whine.
Did you also whined when Sooperman, WW and MM tried to move the Earth with a lariat and a laughable chain also? Must had been a cry river over your house. Can i swim in that poll one day?
- - -
" then, without apparent qualm you'll claim a scene where . . . HERCULES IS SHOWN AS BEING NEARLY THE SAME SIZE AS THE PLANET EARTH as canon!!"
Ah so you want actual perspective in comic books! jawdrop tell me then. If the artist had chosen to depict that scene in actual scientific manner, how would anyone be able to tell that Herc was even there?
And of course in actual perspective, Hulk could NEVER be seen deestroying an asteroid twice Earths size. And yet whe all SEE him. Wasent he way bigger than he should? What about moving the moon? What about moving Warworld and punching that planet to dust. We all see the characters in relation to those celestial objects when in reality none SHOULD be seen.
And Leo your damn right. It should all be done in scientific manner. Thats how you see Sooperman trying to move the Earth with....a chain glare
Now after you just got owned, prepare to realize this. REAl life PERSPECTIVE has no place in COMIC BOOKS.
Time to wake up, your in no age to belive in Santa Claus anymore. Either you accept all absurd feats or NONE. Hows gonna be?
- - -
"oh, and GRREEEAATTTT job 'dissecting' my argument. and thanks for sharing that bullets don't hurt herc. i swear, by jiminy, where would we all be if it weren't for you and your pearls of wisdom?"
You sure wouldnt know what a H2H match was weep
- - -
"oly's laws of h2h combat' btw, were a highlight for me, though. so, once again, a boxing match isn't considered h2h because, well, one guy may be able to punch faster than another . . .? priceless. martial arts? no, cuz one guy may be able to attack faster. i know -- rock-em-sock-em-robots are an example of 'oly's h2h2 combat'!!"
I posted a defination from the dictionary.
What h2h skill does a boxing match involves, Leo. Name them.
Cant wait to see this one. If punching someone alone is H2H then what is a Slugfest?
- - -
"whew, thanks for clearing that up. oh yeah, superman gets into those kinds of fights all the time. sure herc could 'drag him into one' by just grabbing him. not like he'd have ANY defense against that . . . "
Make a list of H2H Matches Sooperman has had. And im not the one who said he wouldnt have a chance. Im saying he doesnt have the high profile on it that WW and herc have and would lose the majority. You cant even get things straigh when your calling out someone.
Hilarious.
- - -
"ohh, you MUST have been DEARLY begging that they would show him doing that again in the newest mini! you would likely have been begging they even MENTIONED the feat in that mini!"
That mini did more than enough. It estabelized once more that his labours ARE cannon. Every single one of them. How we know?
a) the guy who did them in the first place was back. And on the job to make NEW ones. Thus the old ones existed in the marvel universe.
b) As stated in the last two ish, the reason in the first place of Herc doing those labours IS cannon. He killed his family when mad controlled by Hera. It was his penance.
c) We see a flasback of every single one of them.
- - -
"they didn't even bother depicting it when they flashed the scene of him reclaiming the apples. hmmm"
You wer already backed down on that one. It doesnt show either way. Just that porpuse of the labour wich was to get the apples.
". . . i wonder why? surely the greatest strength feat in marvel comics history was deserving of at least a tiny recap, or mention. hmmm . . ."
Its not the greatest feat. Him closing a dimensional door is more ridiculous. Neither its the greatest of Marvel.
And the flashback was to tell the porpuse behind each labour, not the circunstances. You should know, since the artist drew all that way.
😆
for something who has nothing of relevence to say, you sure say a lot of irrelevent things. once again, i'll not bother pont by point.
😆 for soemone with nothing of relevence to say, you sure say a lot of it!
re: hulk. again. he cut hulk? yes . . .? so? he can cut almost anything that's not adamantium or a force field! guess which superman has? 😉
re: cm. er, show me, PLEASE, where i said he didn't attack the avengers . . .? YOU said -- repeatedly -- that herc withstood the BEYONDER'S power. i'm telling you -- and everyone else -- it was NOT b's power, it was cm's. why you can't wrap your head around that, i don't know or care. again, niiiicccccceeeeeeeeeeeeee and sssllllllllllooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww . . .
beyonder's power: REALLY BIG!!
cm's power: pretty big, but<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<beyonder's power. anyone in the audience need anymore help with this? if you get it, maybe pm oly cuz apparently he still needs an assist. 😉
re: korvac. okay. you can have your 2 unproveable attacks, and i'll raise you one, MORE POWERFUL attack directed at thor! afterall, he had to brace himself to use the power on thor and it looks like thor was sent flying further. herc's shot was a love tap (and how do you know he wasn't ko'd by the 'first blast'? he also clearly attacked thor with 2 hands of power -- that is obviously >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>than any 1 OR 2 single hand attacks at herc. AND thor still got back up! i'd prove it was stronger but since you don't bother with little things like proof, i rest me case! 😄
great job of even FURTHERING your own inconsistency with scans! you are sherlock holmes with the hands switch and level of scrutiny of one scan, then turn into the dali lama for the next one! brilliant! so where exactly did that earth thing take place? and was it just the earth? not the firmament? heavens? sky? that the artist was depicting . . .? you my friend are on a roll! 🤣
find me someone that will say boxing is not h2h combat and i'll concede you you're single point. and i'm not the one trying to define subjective terms like i was friggin' webster! what's a slugfest? a . . . synonym for a fight . . .? 😕 i'd make your list of h2h fights for supes -- but given your rules, i don't think he's ever been in one! hence the remarkable realism of saying herc could just drag supes into one . . .
and would you stop lying to the poor people unfortunate enough to be following this 'debate': herc did not close a dimensional gateway -- herc AND thor combined did it. unless you're saying herc could have done it himself? you could of course -- i and everyone else have come to know how little actual facts and proof have come to mean to you.
Fear not Leonidas. Just tag along. We will have a bit of a respect thread about:
-The Leo Gem of the Day!-
"Real life perpectives apply in comics"
They sure do. We will have some more examples of that universal law in action:
http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/2359/thehandthatshooktheworld3rs.jpg
Where is the real life perspective here?
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/1829/aftertheplanet0ra.jpg
Where is the real life perspective here?
http://img346.imageshack.us/my.php?image=surfer51bo.jpg
Where is the real life perspective here?
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5840/featsasteroid1a7xe9db.jpg
Where is the real life perspective here?
That Hulk example its the most incredible of all. The asteroid was TWO times bigger than Earth. And yet look at how big Hulk looks like hysterical
But is it over? Sure not. If you aplly actual real life perspective you also aplly real physics and science. That also takes place into comics.
Right? Right?!
http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/985/energy5mz3pg.jpg
Real life physics right here!
http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/1404/jla058146tz4wj.jpg
Real physics right here. A chain is used to pull the Moon without anything breaking apart! OMG.
But its not even over. You can get two laws with the same scan! Real life perspectives and real physics. Anyone who has the classic Superboy Prime pulling a galaxy with a chain can see it. The chain has to be the strongest there is! Its going thro a galaxy worth of planets without breaking apart. How does the chain managed to go thro the planets?!! fear
Credit to Leonidas for this wonderful thread.
"find me someone that will say boxing is not h2h combat and i'll concede you you're single point. and i'm not the one trying to define subjective terms like i was friggin' webster! what's a slugfest? a . . . synonym for a fight . . .? i'd make your list of h2h fights for supes -- but given your rules, i don't think he's ever been in one! hence the remarkable realism of saying herc could just drag supes into one"
He has been into h2h matches yes. Just think cleary. I can think of at least three.
Boxing falls into Slugfest. You punch the guy with all you got until he falls down, or you do.
H2H falls into Wrestling and Martial arts. You dont just punch. You do pressure points. You grapple. You try to take the air out of them. You attack the focal points.
As for deffination that boxing isent H2H:
"The act, activity, or sport of fighting with the fists, especially according to rules requiring the use of boxing gloves and limiting legal blows to those striking above the waist and on the front or sides of the opponent."
"Boxing \Box"ing\, n.
The act of fighting with the fist; a combat with the fist;
sparring"
"2 boxing, pugilism, fisticuffs
fighting with the fists "
Thats how 85-90 percent of comic fights -usually- go. You wail on someone especially with your fists until he goes down. I already gave the list on how many he had on the top of my head. Check it out.
Originally posted by olympian
Ah forgot about these gems:"so is superspeed a part of his 'usual' fighting style? how about his other powers? which ones exactly? as long as you're making rules, you might as well make all of them."
Let me get this straight. The forum has a rule that ALL characters are fighting in a way the comics dont show in a blue moon or ever and your complaining of making rules?
If this was funny id laught. Oh wait, it IS.
Especially when Superman even bloodlust and operating on a higher level and using his speed (yes Leo his speed) AND figthing in a more ruthless manner doesnt even beat his fellow top tiers. Just look at his track record.
- - -
"And its not limiting no. You just need to accept the fact that what Superman usually uses in a fight isent enough to defeat top tier guys.
do you really understand what you've just said here . . .? i'll not bother pointing out the nonsensical nature of this statement. there are some out there (you clever ones know who you are . . . ) who will understand. for you others . . . c'est la vie."
Really? What he normally uses is a garantee win over others of the same group?
Lets just see that . Just look at Orion, Wonder Woman, Black Adam, Lobo and Captain Marvel. He ALWAYS wins against them, right.
What is his record against all of them in the way he normally operates to a higher level:
Two stalemates when stated to more powerful
Two loses when stated to be more powerful and in a killing frenze
Another stalemate when mind controlled by Dr Phycho against a guy that didnt wanted to fight
And the fights with Lobo are always entartaining, how many wins he has over a guy that doesnt even fly?
And Captain Marvel. He sure has alot of wins against him
doh
Enough to show that even with all that hes not physically above the top tier? Thats hes not owning anyone in that regard?
barely worth commenting on, but, i haven't had this much fun in the forum in a while, so . . . ONWARD!
if you don't like the forum rules . . . LEAVE! 😱 especially hypocrtical when you use herc's highest end feats and debatably canon ones to defend your points at every turn! pricelss. you should make a mastercard commercial . . .
is it a guarantee win when he uses his 'normal' powers? who said anything about 'guaranteeing' wins? the guys on that list are tough. herc is not in their 'tier'. (oh, i love how you say superman and herc are top tier, then say superman is above herc in durability. doesn't that mean herc is . . . second tier?) superman could beat any one on the list, but he may need to get creative because they either can exploit a weakness (magic) or have great versatility (orion, like thor). he beats hercules a lot easier. and there you go again defining the characters and making up terms. h2h. slugfest. normal. all subjective terms, i'm afraid. so, how often does he need to use a power for it to be . . . normal? 😕 do you see the idiocy?
oh, and the only river i wish i could cry in is lethe -- i'd jump straight in so i'd forget i ever got into this in the first place!
pleae, unless ytou have something of relevence, don't post again. for my own sanity and the sanity of the forum. 🙁
Originally posted by olympian
Fear not Leonidas. Just tag along. We will have a bit of a respect thread about:-The Leo Gem of the Day!-
"Real life perpectives apply in comics"
They sure do. We will have some more examples of that universal law in action:
http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/2359/thehandthatshooktheworld3rs.jpg
Where is the real life perspective here?
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/1829/aftertheplanet0ra.jpg
Where is the real life perspective here?
http://img346.imageshack.us/my.php?image=surfer51bo.jpg
Where is the real life perspective here?
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5840/featsasteroid1a7xe9db.jpg
Where is the real life perspective here?
That Hulk example its the most incredible of all. The asteroid was TWO times bigger than Earth. And yet look at how big Hulk looks like hysterical
But is it over? Sure not. If you aplly actual real life perspective you also aplly real physics and real life science. That also takes place into comics.
Right? Right?!
http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/985/energy5mz3pg.jpg
Real life physics right here!
http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/1404/jla058146tz4wj.jpg
Real physics right here. A chain is used to pull the Moon without anything breaking apart! OMG.
But its not even over. You can get two laws with the same scan! Real life perspectives and real life science. Anyone who has the classic Superboy Prime pulling a galaxy with a chain can see it. The chain has to be the strongest there is! Its going thro a galaxy worth of planets without breaking apart. How does the chain managed to go thro the planets?!! fear
Credit to Leonidas for this wonderful thread.
😆
translation: "i have just had my ass fed to me now i will try to steer the topic away from that beatdown and throw in even MORE irrelevent material!!"
and yet sherlock oly will examine a scan to the point of claiming someone uses 2 attacks that are never seen because the godlike guy in the scan 'switches hands'!!!!!!
🤣
brilliant. that phone you hear: it's mastercard . . . 😆
