Full god Hercules vs. Superman

"if you don't like the forum rules . . . LEAVE! especially hypocrtical when you use herc's highest end feats and debatably canon ones to defend your points at every turn! pricelss. you should make a mastercard commercial . ."

I learned from the worsts, Leonidas. Namely you. Funny how you whine about the rules when people use feats and showings that DONT have him as the way you WANT.

I dont mind the rules, i mind the hipocrasy.

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"it a guarantee win when he uses his 'normal' powers? who said anything about 'guaranteeing' wins?"

You did. You called me wrong when i said it. That memory....

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"the guys on that list are tough. herc is not in their 'tier'. (oh, i love how you say superman and herc are top tier, then say superman is above herc in durability. doesn't that mean herc is . . . second tier?)"

So WW who is outmached in everything but skill, isent top tier? hmmmm!

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"superman could beat any one on the list, but he may need to get creative because they either can exploit a weakness (magic) or have great versatility (orion, like thor)."

The Orion stalemates against a mad on Sooperman had nothing to do with exploiting weakness. It was trading punches 🍺 Now explain that.

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"he beats hercules a lot easier."

The same way he beat Orion without the ale, or Lobo. Yes yes. We know.

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"and there you go again defining the characters and making up terms. h2h. slugfest. normal. all subjective terms, i'm afraid. so, how often does he need to use a power for it to be . . . normal?

Wich is alot different than you try to pull off a Superman version that simply doesnt exist? How much defining your own character you can get. So, how often did he won against them? How many he owned just physically? Ill wait.

"translation: "i have just had my ass fed to me now i will try to steer the topic away from that beatdown and throw in even MORE irrelevent material!!"

Your putting on your own translation on how your felling now? Thats wonderful. Now ON topic. Explain the lack of real life perspectives in all those. Theyr the same as the Hercules examples.

You CAN explain, cant you? You at least seemed capable back there.

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"and yet sherlock oly will examine a scan to the point of claiming someone uses 2 attacks that are never seen because the godlike guy in the scan 'switches hands'!!!!!!"

I dont need to examine anything. The examples above show pretty well your double standart. NONE of those ever happened or taken place in a comic because comic works on base of actual physics and perspectives. They cant go on pushing and moving planets and they cant be seen doing those either.

Right?

http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/7305/avengers177067lx7xg.jpg

And i can SEE its two blasts because he -wasent- using both hands when the first was shot. And in the next panel hes blasting with the other hand.

rolleyes1

Will you stop dodging now and answer how you take those that like the Hercules example, dont meet your criteria.

So all happened or none did.

Originally posted by olympian

Without those elements its more a H2H. Slugfest its what you normally use. Superman doesnt regulary speedblitz. Thats more his recent times. He regulary doesnt use FTL speeds either. But he usually uses flight.

Examples of slugfest?

Against Mongul. More than once. Starting with the "Exile"

Against DOS. Most of it.

Against Hunter Prey the moment he went close.

Against Magog. Austen days.

Against Kalibak. More than once.

Against Darkseid. More than once.

Against Master of Arms. The Jurgens Jla days.

Against Thor in Jla Avengers #2

Against WW at least once.

Against Orion when mad on. Both times.

Against GuyGardner.

Against Cyborg superman.

Against Lobo. More than once.

Against Metallo.

Against the White Martians.

Against the three Kriptonians. Especially Quex Ul.

Against the Superboy of that timeline.

Against Captain Marvel. Nearly everytime.

Against Black Adam.

And those are of the top of my head. A shorter list would be, when hasent he be into a slugfest?

By saying one power I mean Flight, hv, ice breath, speed, etc.

So keep trying.

"And the fights with Lobo are always entartaining, how many wins he has over a guy that doesnt even fly?"

Actually, Lobo is a bad example. Superman easily beats him nowadays and Lobo's character is mainly used now as a jester for comic relief.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4643/supeslobo0uo.jpg

herc has super speed(saw in character bio)

Just to make things clearer with some scans. Follow along.

http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/7305/avengers177067lx7xg.jpg

Korvac was a uber guy, stated to be above Odin who could blast with both hands. Before blasting Herc we see him blasting Cap with one and then the other guy, whose name escapes me with the other.

Then Hercules charges. As we see he gets blasted with the right hand. The right hand only since we see his left with no energy and use.

Then as the next pannel follows. We see the -blast coming from his left hand-. While it is conceivable that in that panel he blasted with both, thats scretching since we dont see any energy coming from his right. The blast comes from his left.

Even if one takes of Korvac using both, its still one concentrated blast -after- one with just one hand.

As for the question trow by Leo. How do we know if Herc wasent knocked out after the first blast?

We dont. Hes still stalking and standing while he receives the right handed blast. And then was killed after. So either way it doesnt matter, knocked out or dead in this case, theres no way he would survive further from Korvac.

Then we have the other one. The dimensional gateway. One universe apart like stated. With power between them to destroy worlds. Two doors and one bridge between them.

One door is closed down by Hercules. The other by Thor.

http://img128.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc300&image=08484_bridwixt.jpg

This came on porpuse to Leo claiming the following:

"and would you stop lying to the poor people unfortunate enough to be following this 'debate': herc did not close a dimensional gateway -- herc AND thor combined did it. unless you're saying herc could have done it himself? you could of course -- i and everyone else have come to know how little actual facts and proof have come to mean to you"

Now i honestly wondered if when debating with him i mentioned Herc alone closing the dimensional gateway. But it seems that as noted in the last page:

"Its not the greatest feat. Him closing a -dimensional door- is more ridiculous. Neither its the greatest of Marvel"

I didnt.

And thats that for now.

"Actually, Lobo is a bad example. Superman easily beats him nowadays and Lobo's character is mainly used now as a jester for comic relief."

Lets be honest, he was always comedic relif. He was practically made to mock the likes of Wolverine and the bad ass attitude.

But they still count. he interacts with others. He doesnt live in a universe apart and neither is a more comedy type of character getting outomatically out of continuity because of that.

With that being said, he has done well against Superman. Especially the first fight. And well against Captain marvel who isent a ground based character either, stalemating him even.

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"A slugfest is just fists only FOR THE WHOLE FIGHT.

By saying one power I mean Flight, hv, ice breath, speed, etc.

So keep trying."

Mongul, Mon el, Quex ul, Guy Gardner, Master of Arms, Orion, Kalibak, Cyborg Superman in the first fight, Hulk (woulda know, forgot about him) Black Adam.

Originally posted by olympian

Mongul, Mon el, Quex ul, Guy Gardner, Master of Arms, Orion, Kalibak, Cyborg Superman in the first fight, Hulk (woulda know, forgot about him) Black Adam.

Mongul in 3 fights he used hv, ice breath, flight and speed.

Hulk he used hv first time. Second fight he did go h2h but Hulk didn't get a edge.

BA he used flight and hv.

Cyborg Supes he used hv and flight.

Thor he used hv and flight.

I don't think you met your 90% criteria.

BTW all of these guys are out of Herc. league.

Another thing to make clear that some are just stubburn to get. Im not claiming that Superman usually doesnt use a single one of his powers even when hes more into trading punches. There are cases when he hasent. And theres the case where he trades punches and uses something of his powerset. A hv. Flight. Some speed. What is not the case however its him outmuscling top tiers left and right like it has been claimed here, even when he is in bloodlust mode.

Hes does have advantages over some when using several abilities instead of just one or two. What im going with, is that mostly he uses one or two and goes to trade punches. Like Hulk, Lobo, Herc and others have proved, it is possible to take a TT flier down if he gets close. And thats exactly where im keeping ground. Herc has chances if the fight gets close. He doesnt if Supes stays with the distance.

And before someone comes with "Why would he get close at his best, with all his powers" i answer: Because it has already happened. More than once.

Im not against anyone starting a thread saying "i want superman in a bloodlust mode". But how the initial fight can go further we base it in comics showings. Like everything else. And if a bloodlust Superman has got tracked into a close match and we know it, then that possibility its one for use.

"Mongul in 3 fights he used hv, ice breath, flight and speed."

He used HV in the first match ever when he was down already. And used it again before the second match started. The match itself was a slugfest. Altho supes disguised as Herc used some skill, unlike Mongul Sr who had none.

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"Hulk he used hv first time. Second fight he did go h2h but Hulk didn't get a edge."

Im not going with who did best or not. Just how he fought in at least one. Another case of: he practically used none and went toe to toe or even when he uses his powers he prefers to get close.

The proof is how many times did Hulk in all those managed to punch him.

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"BA he used flight and hv."

In the end. The whole fight until then was a slugfest. I dont count out his flying at the start, since thats how he got back to the fight after Adam sucker punched him afar.

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"Cyborg Supes he used hv and flight."

Not in the first fight.

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Thor he used hv and flight.

I retconned Thor away in this second list you asked for. I mentioned these:

Mon el, Quex ul, Guy Gardner, Master of Arms, Orion, Kalibak, Cyborg Superman -in the first fight-, Hulk (woulda know, forgot about him) Black Adam.

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"I don't think you met your 90% criteria."

My 90% isent him fighting with no powers at all besides strenght. Its him even with his powerset and using some abilities prefering to trade punches. Wich makes him get close to an opponent. This second list however was you asking for pure slugfests.

I dont claim he cant use his abilities or that he never does. I claim and all those fights of the two lists show that, that using his powers or not he prefers to trade punches.

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"BTW all of these guys are out of Herc. league."

Powerwise alot are. Physically no. Especially Mongul Sr. Hes well below.

blah blah blah.

i'm actually done reading your posts on this thread. honestly -- who in hell has time! the topic has long since been left in the dust and it's gotten a bit tedious going back and forth. i don't need to make a full-time job of pointing out your errors and misinterpretations. others seem to have joined in anyway. you have exactly zero support for anything you've said. with that, i wrap up my participation in this innane thread. rock yourself to sleep with whatever bit of fantasy you need to use, close your eyes and count scans, scour the web for more irrelevent info, do whatever you like. hoot and holler and yell -- 'hey, leo ran away! he didn't answer my questions! (if you asked any -- i didn't read any of your last half-dozen posts) that means i, olympian, have owned him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the mighty leo has fallen!!!!!' 😆

yep, let that be what gets you through the following days. but, even as those thoughts churn in that little brain, know this -- anyone who has been following this thread will see this action for what it REALLY is -- the kmc's first ever case of thread euthanasia!!

😆

always a pleasure, oly. 😉

Whinning again?

Your all tall when im not here to answer you back and confortable at calling me a liar.

But when i arrive up and show the evidence and challenge you to put it up or shut up, thats what you always do. Shut up. How many times have we had the Hercules feat debate already? How many times have you sudently dissapered without the evidence that backs your reasoning. Sure its easy to say im wrong without you know...proof.

Always a pleasure Leo. But dont feel bad. At least i learned a new Gem from you. Real life physics apply to comics!

Until the next time 😉