Back.
All right -
Invisible Hand was being assaulted heavily by Republic starships above Coruscant. That is the main reason that, after Count Dooku was killed, the ship began to fall apart. Palpatine couldn't survive a massive ship crashing into the surface of a planet while he was still on it.
Your point is moot.
Secondly, General Grievous is a creature of base impulses. He had an intense desire to murder Chancellor Palpatine, and barely restrained himself - as he had done with Nute Gunray.
And not a single thing will help him in a fight against Yoda and Sidious who know the darkest secrets of the dark lords and have been summoning their spirits and are the greatest and strongest Jedi whose ever lived...and, oh, yeah, knows every secret of the Jedi's powers, offensive and defensive.
Ask Lucas, not me. I'm going with canon. Godlike power? Ok, then. Devouring darkness? Ok. Darkness beyond darkness? Ok. Titan in the force? Alright.
That's great. And some of those other Jedi were already ancient and centuries old, so...
And by ROTs, he's already mastered many of the powers of the dark Lords, so?
Sorry, but you can't argue Kun's own words as the ritual is complete or underway when the Jedi arrive. Kun said he preserved his spirit IN THE TEMPLE WALLS, meaning that's what the ritual did and Kun said he didn't forsee being trapped there...and in the comic he admits he doesn't fully understand the ritual. Ok then.
And the novelization was approved, reviewed and worked on with Stover by Lucas. I trust what canon says a lot more than you.
Noone used a double bladed saber with the primitive sabers of those eras when Kun only swung it three times and used two hands when he did swing it once? Ok.
And he doesn't say things carried through. No, he says he added something and changed it. Try again.
Actually, you have your own interpretations. I have parts of canon, the definition of the word overpowered and how it can be used, Sidious's nature, his plans, coincidences in a world without them...and a lot of evidence as opposed to 'Mace won because he's Samuel L. Jackson!"
Possibly because the established canon says otherwise, unless the actual anon states he didn't lose, especially when Sidious's own thoughts express he's never been truly defeated.
Oh, please! His hand is too far away, and two fingers are out of view! Of course, this must mean you're right, never mind he was, y'know, talking. Sedriss and Ood's power colliding destroyed them both btw, thanks. And actually, Vos did...Volfe Karkko anyone? And once more: we Odan was the least bit impressive, let me know.
Fascinating! Especially when you consider noone Kun faced is up to the level of the other combatanants, and he 'destroyed' Ulic? And 'three different style'? Gonna have to call BS on that 'un. And the very idea of the students banding together with the power of the light drove Kun into total desperation. Who tricked, trapped and beat Kun? Oh yeah.
Gee, couldn't have ANYTHING to do with how Luke's no longer a pure, living avatar of the light side, he tried not to hurt Kyp, stated in the book and was attacked from both sides when he was holding Kyp off. It just took Luke's will to drive Kun off and turn him into a cringing weakling until he got ahold of the others.
Ahhh, more BS, Nai? Couldn't have ANYTHING to do that Sidious is the one with power to take the next step? Human bodies aren't meant for dark side energies and Sidious could control his power, he simply didn't give a damn about the current flesh, given his goal to literally become the Dark Side. And owns himself...no, let's ignore Luke and Leia channeling becoming pure luminous beings of the force and blocking Palpatine from the Dark Side. And Sidious owns the amulets and presumably a lot more. Already most everything Kun stored away on Yavin-and before you start with the 'but there wasn't anyone on Yavin!...Ulic? Ikrit? Luke in ANH? The Jedi who were wiping out the swarms of Terentateks there?
And here we go with that stupid 'more knowledge than he could ever use' quote...news flash: He never got a chance to take a peek at it. He died hours later. And withstood the wall of light? Kun and the dark side of Yavin were practically wiped out by that wall of light, especially as according to you it trapped him in a temple for four thousand years. And that's great, they were older than Yoda. They weren't stronger.
Hm, and Palpatine didn't know Anakin would do that? No...he only gloated about that happening and retrieved his lightsaber. And yeah, that's exactly what Palpatine played back to the senate, and given he's scarred and deformed, who's gonna doubt him? Palpatine grabbed a LOT of power during the Clone Wars. And nope, the Jedi have ZERO evidence of Palpatine's involvement: He didn't leave a trail for the Jedi.
He wasn't, that's my point. And the script shows that was practically telepathic .
No, Anakin reacts because he's terrified his last chance to save the WOMAN HE LOVES is about to be killed. No, he's broken, he has nothing left but Padme and he finally realizes it. Anakin succumbs to fear and Palpatine used him as a weapon.
Good thing you're not a Jedi who wouldn't kill a helpless opponent. Learn a bit about Mace, why don't you, instead of telling me I have no idea about swordfighting.
And Mace wished to sudbue Sidious, that was made clear. He even makes his intentions to arrest him clear when he has Sidious at swordpoint. And it's a bit hard to keep a man a prisoner who can fire lightning from his hand and rules the galaxy practically? His attack on Mace made him realize Sidious had to die. And ignorign again Palpatine even stated earlier he'd have Anakin?
So...Luke beheaded Palpatine in ROTJ? Try again. According to, well, just about anything, Palpatine was in full control of Anakin's life until that moment.
When Grievous could twitch and kill Palpatine, that's very comforting. And he hadn't died yet so the process was untested. How about gambling his life on Onderon, firing about blasts to kill and subdue when even using any force powers could destroy his final clone?
Quote: "He had been so busy looking for Palpatine's shatterpoint he hadn't thought to look for Anakin's." You were saying? And yes..."he trusts you, so I have to kill you!" Mace thought Palp's trust was misplaced. And Palpatine knew the Jedi were coming, he knew they'd arrive, he knew whod come as he sensed them, gathered his sabers and waited for them calmly. And when Anakin became Vader, PAlaptine always knew what he was doing and encouraged him, knowing he'd simply replace him one day.
Originally posted by Escape81
[B]Back.All right -
Invisible Hand was being assaulted heavily by Republic starships above Coruscant. That is the main reason that, after Count Dooku was killed, the ship began to fall apart. Palpatine couldn't survive a massive ship crashing into the surface of a planet while he was still on it.
Your point is moot.
What ? In Shatterpoint Depa drops several hundret feet into a gun ship and survives without problems. In AotC Anakin jumps down several hundret feet and grabs onto a fast moving vessel without hurting himself - no problem. And now you want to tell me that Mr. Dark Side can't survive a ship crash ?
Secondly, General Grievous is a creature of base impulses. He had an intense desire to murder Chancellor Palpatine, and barely restrained himself - as he had done with Nute Gunray.
Yes. Wow. How would Grievous kill Sidious - please. Give me the answer.
Originally posted by Borbarad
So capable that he mentions himself how he's unable to control his force storm ? Nice.How would the guy that was crushed by Obi-Wan in 30 seconds stand a chance to Sidious ? The second he would have tried to attack Sidious the result would have been a roasted Grievous. One lightning blast > robot body.
Why you are again talking about DE when we are talking about ROTS Sidious. Wow...he let Anakin hold a saber to his throat - no...the guy who can move "faster then the eye could see" gets threatened by the person who can't do it.
And now he absorbed the power from Korriban. Yeah, yeah, yeah...
Have you seen him killing thousands of force user with a single force attack ? No ? Nihilus > him. Have you seen him flooring 20 Jedi with a single force attack including NJO Luke ? No ? Sekot > him. Have you seen him "causing death of entire star systems" using his force powers ? Sadow > him. Could he keep his seperated head alive in a jar. No ? Simus > him.Ok...those people had a different biology. I wonder how you're going to explain the Sith you mentioned yourself before. Hmm...Rivan ? A human living over 1,000 years with a considerable great amount of power ? Bane ? Plagueis who basically archieved immortality and wielded powers Sidious had not figured out in the time of ROTS ?
Meeh...
1. When cut off from the Force by the luminous beings of pure light side power? Next.
2. When Sidious is y'know, remaining the quiet, unassuming chancellor and Grievous has him by the neck, I wonder.
3. Anakin's already one of the best swordsmen in the entire order. You were saying? Palpatine, before it was ever established he had clones, leet Luke swing at him, knowing what anakin would do. He didn't block Mace's saber with his lightning or the force or his saber saber as he knew Anakin would save him.
4. Did I ever see him causing the deaths of severals tar systems? Yes, the worlds he sucked dry with his force powers after Byss. have any of the other Sith actually torn a hole in the fabric of the Galaxy, directly said to be the greatest use of dark side power, what, ever? Ok, then.
5. Rivan was an alien and when you know his physical state, get back to me. Prove to me Plageuis also knew what Palp even said he did, since he 'taught his apprentice EVERYTHING he knew." Bane's done what exactly? Was Bane ninety something? Was he covered in livign armor? Ok. How about Simus, who was a shriveled head in a jar and couldn't even deflect a blaster bolt?
The point is that "fighting" or "confrontation" is not his primary choice when he has to deal with certain situations. That is the difference between him and people like, let's say, Kun.
I have acknowledged this on several occasions. But the point is that Palpatine will fight when necessary or when he has the desire to do so.
For what reason ? He wanted a new apprentice and he basically received that goal by making Anakin think he needs him (to get access to the powers needed to save Padme). The "political" motivation was his own but Anakin wasn't affected much by that at least it seems so. I mean - he still argued with "following the Jedi code" and so on - didn't he. Doesn't look as if he was "doubting the Jedi's intentions" there.
Anakin still had some faith in the Jedi's ways. Palpatine wanted to expell their influence from him, so he pressed on for Anakin to doubt their intent. Palpatine spent the entire movie - specifically, the Opera scene - trying to make Anakin doubt the Jedi's "dogmatic, narrow-minded view of the Force".
No. It's stated that the Jedi are under the authority of the Senate or the equivalent of the justice department. Their main goal is to protect the republic or the democracy. Hence they can't commit treason against the Supreme Chancelor - only against the Senate or against the political system.
The Supreme Chancellor is the de facto leader of the Senate. He is, once again, higher up on the political hierarchy than they are - and by attacking him, they commit treason.
He knew ? Sorry...first he wants Anakin to investigate their intentions. Then Anakin says to him that he will "find out" their true intentions which obviously would require more then running into the temple and telling Mace about Sidious true identity. Even if that would have only included some minutes of contemplation or meditation.
But no - minutes after Anakin left him he had 4 Jedi Masters standing in his office including the second most powerful guy of the Council. I don't think he really planned that or knew that they would come to his office that fast.
Anakin told Palpatine that he'd turn him over to the Council. That is how he knew.
So, when Anakin does, Palpatine plants the thought in his mind, via the Force that if he [Palpatine] dies, then the knowledge to save Padme dies with him.
So, Anakin rushes back to the Chancellor's office - and lo and behold - sees big bad Mace Windu towering over Palpatine. This further cements his doubt with the Jedi. Palpatine then continues to try to put Mace in a situation where he can force Anakin to act and cement him further in the Dark Side.
Palpatine's goal, as you say, was to convert Anakin. He was well on his way, and by forcing Anakin into a situation where he would have to choose between Mace Windu and Palpatine himself, would be the final straw.
Point moot. That doesn't necessarily mean that: Palpatine "knew" he couldn't beat Mace. Hell no. Mace was just an instrument by which Palpatine could further use to cement Anakin into the Dark Side of the Force.
Oh...you really think that commiting some argumentum ad hominem would help you here or what ? I don't care what you or somebody else thinks about my arrogance. If you say "most likely" then it means that every other explanation is less likely then your idea. What is that ? No arrogance?
I am simply making it known that your beliefs that you can "see" into the insight of a character, or presume as much to tell me what they are thinking is a very arrogant notion. As such, they hold no bearing with me.
You're not Lucas. Don't tell me what another character is thinking unless you can submit proof that you can base (key word "base"😉 it on.
Your opinion is not law.
Ehehehe. Of course he's superior to Mace in the force but what should he have done ? Against Yoda he's always fighting out of superior positions and even then Yoda basically stalemates with him in all direct confrontations of their power (throwing the pod up, reflecting his lightning with his bare hands). So what should he have done against Windu ? Force TK wouldn't have worked and he tried it with lightning and failed (because Mace had his saber left).
You tell me. The fact that he fights in a much more steady pace against Mace, without using his definate superior Force powers astounds me. Especially since, as you say, Palpatine is a coward and therefore would use his advantage to the best of his ability.
Lmao, Escape. Where was he gambling with his life, huh ? He had Dooku who wouldn't hurt him, Anakin and Obi-Wan who wouldn't hurt him, Grievous who wouldn't hurt him (according to Sidious own words in the CW cartoons). The only possible danger was the ship getting torn into pieces - yes, I guess the master of battle meditation can't do something against that.
Read Labyrinth of Evil, as well. You'll see my point. He was nearly killed in space.
You can't always argue with his superior force powers and manipulation abilities and then come up with "he's risking his life in a freaking space battle" when he's surrounded by all kind of people wanting to save his life or not wanting to hurt him.
Neither can you deem Palpatine's manipulation skills good enough to keep him safe in space, but insufficient to manipulate Windu. Point being, Palpatine will risk his life - and he is capable of manipulating Mace Windu as he did for over a decade.
What ? In Shatterpoint Depa drops several hundret feet into a gun ship and survives without problems. In AotC Anakin jumps down several hundret feet and grabs onto a fast moving vessel without hurting himself - no problem. And now you want to tell me that Mr. Dark Side can't survive a ship crash ?
Oh yeah . . . but Palpatine was in a starship in outer space! Tell me how he'd survive the vacuum of gravity, the crash landing, the explosions, and not to mention the entry into the atmosphere!
Yes. Wow. How would Grievous kill Sidious - please. Give me the answer.
Gee . . . probably when he was restrained to a freakin' chair?
Originally posted by Borbarad
What ? In Shatterpoint Depa drops several hundret feet into a gun ship and survives without problems. In AotC Anakin jumps down several hundret feet and grabs onto a fast moving vessel without hurting himself - no problem. And now you want to tell me that Mr. Dark Side can't survive a ship crash ?Yes. Wow. How would Grievous kill Sidious - please. Give me the answer.
And Plo Koon? How about in a massive ship when MOST of its is already completely destroyed?
Gee, when Grievous is gripping Sidious by the throat and is retraining the urge just to twitch his hand, I cannot imagine!
Originally posted by Lightsnake
And not a single thing will help him in a fight against Yoda and Sidious who know the darkest secrets of the dark lords and have been summoning their spirits and are the greatest and strongest Jedi whose ever lived...and, oh, yeah, knows every secret of the Jedi's powers, offensive and defensive.
*Yawn* How often have we chew to that rubber mass of hyperboles again. I'd rather try to do something usefull and instal smoke detectors in hell.
Ask Lucas, not me. I'm going with canon. Godlike power? Ok, then. Devouring darkness? Ok. Darkness beyond darkness? Ok. Titan in the force? Alright.
Any of those statements given by Lucas ? No ? Ok.
That's great. And some of those other Jedi were already ancient and centuries old, so...
Huh ? So Kun was weak because he just could rule some century old Jedi Masters. Use the same base for an argument and tell me why Sidious almost lost to Yoda.
And by ROTs, he's already mastered many of the powers of the dark Lords, so?
Proof since he uses basically none of them ?
Sorry, but you can't argue Kun's own words as the ritual is complete or underway when the Jedi arrive. Kun said he preserved his spirit IN THE TEMPLE WALLS, meaning that's what the ritual did and Kun said he didn't forsee being trapped there...and in the comic he admits he doesn't fully understand the ritual. Ok then.
So the Jedi shown to attack him were basically pointless as he screwed up everything on his own, right ? Haha.
And the novelization was approved, reviewed and worked on with Stover by Lucas. I trust what canon says a lot more than you.
No. You thrust the novel more then the film when the film is the higher level of canon. You thrust the novel more then Lucas own words when they are the highest level of canon. You exactly thrust what fits your opinion. And that's it.
Noone used a double bladed saber with the primitive sabers of those eras when Kun only swung it three times and used two hands when he did swing it once? Ok.
Huh ?
And he doesn't say things carried through. No, he says he added something and changed it. Try again.
He tells you what he has changed. You better try again and come up with erm...and argument ? No...I guess that exceeds the things people can expect from you.
Actually, you have your own interpretations. I have parts of canon, the definition of the word overpowered and how it can be used, Sidious's nature, his plans, coincidences in a world without them...and a lot of evidence as opposed to 'Mace won because he's Samuel L. Jackson!"
I have Lucas words and those can't be argued. You have lost, dude.
Possibly because the established canon says otherwise, unless the actual anon states he didn't lose, especially when Sidious's own thoughts express he's never been truly defeated.
Yes. Personal opinion of the loser matters more then Lucas own words and what is shown in the film. If Foreman shows up and thinks he never lost against Ali you'll buy that, right ?
Oh, please! His hand is too far away, and two fingers are out of view! Of course, this must mean you're right, never mind he was, y'know, talking. Sedriss and Ood's power colliding destroyed them both btw, thanks. And actually, Vos did...Volfe Karkko anyone? And once more: we Odan was the least bit impressive, let me know.
Yup. Funny. Sedriss wiped himself from existance - nice victory ? Vos fought the guy who spent the last few centuries in suspended animation - great victory. Come back when you found matching examples or stop replying.
Fascinating! Especially when you consider noone Kun faced is up to the level of the other combatanants, and he 'destroyed' Ulic? And 'three different style'? Gonna have to call BS on that 'un. And the very idea of the students banding together with the power of the light drove Kun into total desperation. Who tricked, trapped and beat Kun? Oh yeah.
What I consider is that you don't have proof for anybody Kun faced being less skilled then Mace, or Obi-Wan or [insert Name here] but despite of that keep on handling that idea as a fact. And yes - he uses two sabers (Jar'kai - style one), two handed wide swings (Djem So - style two) and form II according to you. Can you count up to three or is that already exceeding your intelectual capacities ? I don't think so.
And despite "trapping" Kun he nearly killed them all by force choking them to death - but let's just "forget" this little "detail".
And owns himself...no, let's ignore Luke and Leia channeling becoming pure luminous beings of the force and blocking Palpatine from the Dark Side.
Luke: "He has conquered himself". Want to contradict him ?
And Sidious owns the amulets and presumably a lot more. Already most everything Kun stored away on Yavin-and before you start with the 'but there wasn't anyone on Yavin!...Ulic? Ikrit? Luke in ANH? The Jedi who were wiping out the swarms of Terentateks there?
And we never see all the thing he owns - therefore we know he owns them. Hilarious. And wow...all those people who went to Yavin after people completely plundered the moon (see KotoR games) - what would they find there - nothing ? Right. Nothing !
And here we go with that stupid 'more knowledge than he could ever use' quote...news flash: He never got a chance to take a peek at it. He died hours later. And withstood the wall of light? Kun and the dark side of Yavin were practically wiped out by that wall of light, especially as according to you it trapped him in a temple for four thousand years. And that's great, they were older than Yoda. They weren't stronger.
News flash: Your personal ideas don't overwrite omniscient narrators and he had gathered most of that knowledge before the quote was given. And of course he was killed "hours" later - Ulic's fight against Cay, his cutting off from the force, him betraying Kun, the gathering of the Jedi and the journey to Yavin 4 happened within "hours".
And nope, the Jedi have ZERO evidence of Palpatine's involvement: He didn't leave a trail for the Jedi.
You did somehow just miss the point that Anakin knew his identity and all the CIS leaders did know that Sidious gave the comments right (as seen when he's talking to them and Grievious in ROTS). So...by revealing his identity as a Sith Lord named Sidious they would have enough proof that he was responsible for the war.
Good thing you're not a Jedi who wouldn't kill a helpless opponent. Learn a bit about Mace, why don't you, instead of telling me I have no idea about swordfighting.
Helpless ? How can you place the idea that Mace wanted to kill Sidious because of his power and the fact that Sidious just killed three Jedi Masters before together and then tell me that he was "helpless" or Mace view him as being helpless when he was still carrying his weapon. And of course Mace wouldn't kill an helpless opponent - that's why he wanted to kill the disarmed and (thought to be) powerless Sidious right on the spot, correct ? Hilarious...
And Mace wished to sudbue Sidious, that was made clear. He even makes his intentions to arrest him clear when he has Sidious at swordpoint. And it's a bit hard to keep a man a prisoner who can fire lightning from his hand and rules the galaxy practically? His attack on Mace made him realize Sidious had to die. And ignorign again Palpatine even stated earlier he'd have Anakin?
You again coming up with an argumentum ad absurdum. So he had Anakin under control already - but needed to throw the fight to draw Anakin to the Dark Side ? Logic ?
And they could keep Kar Vastor as a prisoner who was damn powerful in terms of force usage (not to mention his physical strength) but they can't do the same thing with Sidious ? We're talking about hundrets of Jedi guarding ONE Sith Lord here...
So...Luke beheaded Palpatine in ROTJ? Try again. According to, well, just about anything, Palpatine was in full control of Anakin's life until that moment.
Shadows of the Empire - Vader refuses Sidious commands and argues with him especially against Xizor. At the end he simply blows Xizor away against Sidious command. Full control is something different.
When Grievous could twitch and kill Palpatine, that's very comforting. And he hadn't died yet so the process was untested. How about gambling his life on Onderon, firing about blasts to kill and subdue when even using any force powers could destroy his final clone?
Grievious could twitch and kill Palpatine ? Ahaha. First Palpatine can move faster then the eye can perceive and toast anybody else with Sith Lightning - some minutes later he would lose to a freaking robot that got his ass handed to Obi-Wan.
Gambling with his life on Onderon - you mean the situation where he had Anakin around as a target for possession anyways ? Would he care ? He didn't care about getting shot in the back by Mr. Solo.
I have Lucas words and those can't be argued. You have lost, dude.
Lol . . . that kind've reminds of me of Mace's comment to Palpatine.
I suppose this is where I shout "No!", cut off your hand, and you get chucked out a metaphorical window?
"The Force is STWWWONG with you." - cheesiest line of the movie. Anyways. . .
Luke: "He has conquered himself". Want to contradict him ?
Well, since we both know that it wouldn't have happened had Leia and Luke not interfered, we can only presume that he was speaking on a technical sense that it was Palpatine's own Force energy which defeated him.
The same could be applied to when Yoda reflected Palpatine's lightning back in his face.
It really wasn't his fault. Touche.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. When cut off from the Force by the luminous beings of pure light side power? Next.
Luke mentions that Sidious admited that he can't control this power in one of his books. I don't think Sidious added an "if I get cut off from the force" in those books. That would have been too obvious.
2. When Sidious is y'know, remaining the quiet, unassuming chancellor and Grievous has him by the neck, I wonder.
Yes. He would led himself getting killed by Grievous because he's a defenceless old man who doesn't have a lightsaber hidden in his robe and nice dark side force powers, right ?
3. Anakin's already one of the best swordsmen in the entire order. You were saying? Palpatine, before it was ever established he had clones, leet Luke swing at him, knowing what anakin would do. He didn't block Mace's saber with his lightning or the force or his saber saber as he knew Anakin would save him.
He couldn't block the saber because Mace was swinging it in from the side. Come on - one step more and you are on DarthSith's level who once told me that "Sidious could have jumped aside and dodge Mace's swing". With the movement of the saber Sidious could possibly have stoped Mace but he would still have been killed by the saber coming in from the side.
4. Did I ever see him causing the deaths of severals tar systems? Yes, the worlds he sucked dry with his force powers after Byss. have any of the other Sith actually torn a hole in the fabric of the Galaxy, directly said to be the greatest use of dark side power, what, ever? Ok, then.
Directly said to be the greatest use of dark side powers ? I didn't see that in the original source and the DS sourcebook says "possibly the greatest use of dark side power" - huh ? "Possibly" was different from "100 % sure" the last time I checked.
5. Rivan was an alien and when you know his physical state, get back to me. Prove to me Plageuis also knew what Palp even said he did, since he 'taught his apprentice EVERYTHING he knew."
No Sith teaches his apprentice everything he knows. Otherwise Sidious wouldn't have killed him while he was sleeping. Aside of that Sidious later tells Anakin that the abilty to "cheat death" was only archieved by one being (Plagueis) so far but they would be able to do this by working together.
Bane's done what exactly? Was Bane ninety something? Was he covered in livign armor? Ok. How about Simus, who was a shriveled head in a jar and couldn't even deflect a blaster bolt?
Did Bane walk around and kill people while being poisoned ? Yes...I recall him doing so. Did Simus just live as a head in a jar when Sidious wasn't able to survive a blaster bolt in his back ? Hmm... ?
Hm, shame it's official and actual sources tend to say it like it is there. Strongest Jedi ever is...hyperbole? As opposed to frightening power? This is hypocrisy.
Any contradicted by Lucas? Trying to play that game, Nai? Ok, you better shut up about frightening power and anything EU.
No, Kun just never fought anyone who displayed themself as impressive in comparison to Sidious and Yoda.
Proof...umm, it says he did, end of story. Could Kun not use the amulet at the time because he didn't use it on Vodo?
No, the Jedi expunged most of the dark Powers of Yavin,. Kun preserved himself in the temple and thus trapped himself, and he says so in JA. End of story.
No, I trust what the nvoel gives as the movie is ambiguous.
And he never said everything stayed the same. Nope, he changed something, meaning the entire meaning of the scene could change and any director could tell you that.
No, you have your interpretation of Lucas's words, unless you've spoken to Luca,s thens top claiming you know how he thinks. And there's a little difference between an unambiguous fight like Ali's and an ambiguously shot one with the factor of Ani involved.
Sedriss's powers were enough to match Ood's when Ood was drawing all the power he could from the planet's core. Especially when Ood'd been meditating, drawing on the power of Ossus itself...mmhmm..
Ah, Nai, already resorting to being flames again. "You don;t agree with me so I'll just flame you!" It lessens you and I respect you enough to tell you its beneath you. You have NOTHING saying Kun used Djem So...and yes, good thing Streen was there. Doesn't change the fact of Kun's total desperation in that entire scene and they put Streen there because they knew Kun'd go for him.
...yes, because Palaptine was blocked from the Force?
That'd be because Kun hid what he'd found from Ossus and Nadd, Palpatine later discovered it.
Personal opinion? Kun GATHERED more than he could use, the FACTS remain he died hours later and never used it! Thon's group broadcasted the coordinates of Yavin to the Jedi who met them at Yavin. Ulic's murder of Cay, blocking and betrayal happened instantly after Kun left.
Which is why Palpatine knew how to manipulate Anakin and always planned to dispose of the Seperatists who had no clue he was Palaptine.
...when Palpatine was in the corner weaponless he was still fighting? And Mace, until the lightning barrage wished to subdue and take Sidious in. It was only after Sidious displayed the dark side attack, Mace realized Palp was too dangerous. Try again.
Know, he knew exactly what Anakin would do, because he knew Anakin. He needed Anakin to act against Mace, go past the point of no return and have him submit himself. and is Kar a Sith Lord? And last time I checked, Kar'd been stabbed through the chest and was missing both his hands, he was BARELY ALIVE.
And at the end of SOTE, Vader realizes Sidious is amused at the loss of Xizor and played them agaisnt eachother for fun. It's one of the things that makes Vader doubt even with Luke he could ever overthrow Sidious. Palpatine never told vader not to kill Xizor and as Executor, Vader put it best: "I speak for the Emperor."
At that point, Grievous is hauling along a weaponless Palpatine by the neck and brimming with murderous rage. I'm not saying Grievous would kill him in a fight, but an out of control Grievous who has Palp by the neck and every reason to want to kill him is a different story.
Palpatine gambled enough to blast Leia, Raf and Brand with the force when his physician kept warning him using the force or even losing control of his emotions was potentially fatal.
Originally posted by Escape81
Lol . . . that kind've reminds of me of Mace's comment to Palpatine.I suppose this is where I shout "No!", cut off your hand, and you get chucked out a metaphorical window?
"The Force is STWWWONG with you." - cheesiest line of the movie. Anyways. . .
Excuse me - was that an attempt to argue something or did you just try to be funny ? Both things didn't work...
Well, since we both know that it wouldn't have happened had Leia and Luke not interfered, we can only presume that he was speaking on a technical sense that it was Palpatine's own Force energy which defeated him.
Excuse me. According to Luke, Sidious wrote down in one of his books that he didn't have the ability to control the force storm. And if somebody wields a power he can't control I surely don't know what would happen. Technically he could have very well owned himself without Luke's and Leia's "assistance". The mere fact that this didn't happen doesn't mean that it couldn't have happened.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Luke mentions that Sidious admited that he can't control this power in one of his books. I don't think Sidious added an "if I get cut off from the force" in those books. That would have been too obvious.Yes. He would led himself getting killed by Grievous because he's a defenceless old man who doesn't have a lightsaber hidden in his robe and nice dark side force powers, right ?
He couldn't block the saber because Mace was swinging it in from the side. Come on - one step more and you are on DarthSith's level who once told me that "Sidious could have jumped aside and dodge Mace's swing". With the movement of the saber Sidious could possibly have stoped Mace but he would still have been killed by the saber coming in from the side.
Directly said to be the greatest use of dark side powers ? I didn't see that in the original source and the DS sourcebook says "possibly the greatest use of dark side power" - huh ? "Possibly" was different from "100 % sure" the last time I checked.
No Sith teaches his apprentice everything he knows. Otherwise Sidious wouldn't have killed him while he was sleeping. Aside of that Sidious later tells Anakin that the abilty to "cheat death" was only archieved by one being (Plagueis) so far but they would be able to do this by working together.
Did Bane walk around and kill people while being poisoned ? Yes...I recall him doing so. Did Simus just live as a head in a jar when Sidious wasn't able to survive a blaster bolt in his back ? Hmm... ?
1. Luke was wrong, as Palpatine controls it fine until he's cut off.
2. Dark Side powers, yes, but Grievous is still holding him by the neck and Palp was even provoking him...and Palp stashed his saber in his office.
3. You mean use his spare saber, more force lightning on a wide open Mace, a force push, any of that?
4. I was referring to the sourcebook. Know of any that surpass it?
5. Since when? The Sith of Bane's order taught their apprentices practically or everything they knew. And once more: how much is Palp telling the truth or lying about? Did Plageuis even know to save 'the ones he loved-the man is a SITH LORD- from dying? Did Palp know it and just wanted Anakin's total obedience? We don't know and won't kow until 2008 when Luceno's Plageuis book comes out. The way it works: The apprentice becomes stronger, the master dies, the apprentice kills the apprentice through an underhanded means and takes what he had...or the master dies of natural causes or 'in battle'...source: Republic 63: Striking from the Shadows
5. Bane...killed children and their father when he was poisoned, that's not really very deadly opposition. Palp was blasting Jedi when he was on the verge of death and barely able to walk...and Simus was cut down, didn't he have his head transplanted anyways, same as Graush did with his heart? And Palpatine's body was already on the brink and Palpatine wanted to escape it to possess Anakin.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Excuse me - was that an attempt to argue something or did you just try to be funny ? Both things didn't work...Excuse me. According to Luke, Sidious wrote down in one of his books that he didn't have the ability to control the force storm. And if somebody wields a power he can't control I surely don't know what would happen. Technically he could have very well owned himself without Luke's and Leia's "assistance". The mere fact that this didn't happen doesn't mean that it couldn't have happened.
Palpatine had used it before without ANY ill effects. He was doing fine as he'd 'never called upon the darkside as he did then' until Luke and Leia used the lightside to 'protect him from the darkness'