I guess if it is true that absolutes don´t exist, we can´t really put it as a statement or we will have a contradiction. For example, is the statement "Absolutes don´t exist" an absolute ?
Relativism believes it is, and from that arrives a contradiction. If we say the same statement is not an absolute, then we will have a type of relativism where the statement "Absolutes don´t exist" is relative. So, this kind of relativism does not deny the existence of absolutes, if it denies this relativism will become contradictory like the first one.
The best way to understand what this means, is that we cannot provide an absolute answer to the question "Do absolutes exist ?", and we should not imply anything else from this(like that if is not possible to prove absolutes them they do not exist), or the model of relativism will become contradictory.
Originally posted by Count Kent
[1+1=2]. This is an absoulte truth.
No, please see the thread on that topic.
Originally posted by Atlantis001
...is the statement "Absolutes don´t exist" an absolute?
...we cannot provide an absolute answer to the question "Do absolutes exist ?"...
Seems to me, any kind of definite statement, however carefully thought-out or worded, becomes an absolute. This would further appear to settle the issue as to whether or not absolutes exist.
And as I've implied in a prior post, IMO, we should not let the abusive, religionistic/moralistic thinking of the past, regarding absolutes, make us fearful to acknowledge that absolutes do very much apparently exist.
Originally posted by Mindship
I believe so, lad.Also sounds absolute.
Seems to me, any kind of definite statement, however carefully thought-out or worded, becomes an absolute. This would further appear to settle the issue as to whether or not absolutes exist.
And as I've implied in a prior post, IMO, we should not let the abusive, religionistic/moralistic thinking of the past, regarding absolutes, make us fearful to acknowledge that absolutes do very much apparently exist.
I dont believe the statement 'absolutes dont exist' could be an absolute, because we cant prove it. Our position on absolutes is ----> 'I dont know'.
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
I dont believe the statement 'absolutes dont exist' could be an absolute, because we cant prove it. Our position on absolutes is ----> 'I dont know'.
It's an absolute in meaning, if not in "physical" reality. Otherwise I would tend to agree.
I say "tend to agree" because, even if we don't know the absolute nature of reality, IMO inevitably there must be one, some infinite condition which subsumes but transcends all other conditions. Whether it is God, quantum foam, an unending regression/progression of fractal universes, at some point we can find ourselves saying, "But what if such-and-such exists?" wherein the answer will always be, "Then that is the nature of this infinite condition.
Originally posted by Mindship
It's an absolute in meaning, if not in "physical" reality. Otherwise I would tend to agree.I say "tend to agree" because, even if we don't know the absolute nature of reality, IMO inevitably there must be one, some infinite condition which subsumes but transcends all other conditions. Whether it is God, quantum foam, an unending regression/progression of fractal universes, at some point we can find ourselves saying, "But what if such-and-such exists?" wherein the answer will always be, "Then that is the nature of this infinite condition.
So your saying a rational process in of itself is an absolute truth? Im still trying to wrap my head around that one. Perhaps you could explain it more?
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
So your saying a rational process in of itself is an absolute truth? Im still trying to wrap my head around that one. Perhaps you could explain it more?
I'm saying that, in addition to whatever Overall Absolute exists (based on my prior reasoning), there are "local absolutes," reflective of the level of reality under scrutiny.
For example, given how our physical universe is arranged, the speed of light is (or at least, appears to be) a physical absolute in our particular type of universe.
In the mental-symbolic sphere, where Meaning is the "substance of reality," if we establish beforehand, for example, what "=" means, than "A=A" becomes an absolute.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The reason for the absolute paradox (there is no absolute is absolute) is because we are communicating the information to each other. The paradox is only in our communication system, it is not an absolute. 😆
Interesting that you said that. I was thinking something like it... that the paradox arrives just when we try to communicate it. It is like if some things should be understood just by themselves, without being formally stated or we will have contradictions. So, maybe it is a limitation of our communication system.
Originally posted by Mindship
I believe so, lad.
My mistake, I meant : ...is the statement "Absolutes don´t exist" an absolute TRUTH ? I forgot to put that word "truth" in the end of the phrase.
By that we can´t say that it is an absolute truth or we will have a contradiction where "Absolutes don´t exist" is an absolute truth.
Originally posted by Atlantis001
My mistake, I meant : ...is the statement "Absolutes don´t exist" an absolute TRUTH ? I forgot to put that word "truth" in the end of the phrase.By that we can´t say that it is an absolute truth or we will have a contradiction where "Absolutes don´t exist" is an absolute truth.
I think I got ya: we need some way to express the possibility of No Absolutes without getting caught up in an apparent contradiction in meaning, due to the limits of our communication.
That's a toughie, cuz that contradiction in meaning ("There are no absolutes"😉 does exist. Perhaps then, you mean by "absolute truth," an Objective Truth, an Overall Absolute, independent of our ideas.
Originally posted by Mindship
I think I got ya: we need some way to express the possibility of No Absolutes without getting caught up in an apparent contradiction in meaning, due to the limits of our communication.That's a toughie, cuz that contradiction in meaning ("There are no absolutes"😉 does exist. Perhaps then, you mean by "absolute truth," an Objective Truth, an Overall Absolute, independent of our ideas.
I think that perhaps there is absolutes, but we can´t formally prove their existence.