The ONLY ABSOLUTE TRUTHS

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Things that are REAL in the mental world can be, and ARE, just as real as the physical things before us.

I' ve always thought of "Something cannot bring itself into existence" as an absolute truth

On the lighter side, I've often had this discussion with people...
"Where did the universe come from?"
"God created the universe."
"Where did God come from?"
"God created Himself."
"How can God create Himself?"
"That's what makes God God." 😉

Originally posted by Mindship
I'm saying that, in addition to whatever Overall Absolute exists (based on my prior reasoning), there are "local absolutes," reflective of the level of reality under scrutiny.

In the mental-symbolic sphere, where Meaning is the "substance of reality," if we establish beforehand, for example, what "=" means, than "A=A" becomes an absolute.

But didnt you agree that truth isnt subjective? What you are describing is a rational process within the human mind that doesnt exist beyond our own experience.

Also this:

I say "tend to agree" because, even if we don't know the absolute nature of reality, IMO inevitably there must be one, some infinite condition which subsumes but transcends all other conditions. Whether it is God, quantum foam, an unending regression/progression of fractal universes, at some point we can find ourselves saying, "But what if such-and-such exists?" wherein the answer will always be, "Then that is the nature of this infinite condition.

Is based on a logical inference of the nature of things, which normally I would agree with except that the topic is about *absolute* truth. So you cant make a logical inference and call it absolute truth because you are limited by your own 'imperfect' mind. What do you really know about 'true' reality? You cant make any assumptions, because we are limited to only what our sensory input feeds into our minds.

Or maybe Im just confused. 😐

That pen sitting on my desk is blue... that's an absolute truth at least in my eyes, but then again I'm not a Philosopher.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
But didnt you agree that truth isnt subjective? What you are describing is a rational process within the human mind that doesnt exist beyond our own experience.

This small, local, logical absolute is not the same as "The Absolute"/"Ultimate Truth"/whatever term one might fancy to describe the Big Picture.

Is based on a logical inference of the nature of things, which normally I would agree with except that the topic is about *absolute* truth. So you cant make a logical inference and call it absolute truth because you are limited by your own 'imperfect' mind. What do you really know about 'true' reality? You cant make any assumptions, because we are limited to only what our sensory input feeds into our minds.
Or maybe Im just confused. 😐

No, you make a valid point, and my fault if I misinterpreted the thread topic.
My reasoning about Absolute Reality is exactly as you said: reasoning. To keep it simple, this is why I did not comment about "the nature" of Absolute Reality, only that, at some point, in some form, there must be one. How could there not be, regardless of whatever form/process it may take? What else could there be? Ultimate Subjectivity? Wouldn't That, then, be our Absolute? Nothing? Then wouldn't That be our Absolute? Something completely beyond any thoughts, words or symbols, something unimaginably unimaginable? Then wouldn't That be our Absolute?

What other conclusion could be drawn: that there Is No Absolute? Then wouldn't That be our Absolute?

But again, your point is valid. At best, logic (or any other mode of knowing--empirical, meditative) provides only a shadow by which we may guess at whatever Truth is casting it.

Originally posted by Mišt

It's absolutely possible and possibly absolute.

NE way, JANUS before you asked me what Oxymorons exist in real life and I never got back to you on that subject:

Here's a few:

1) The Fact that you can be Ugly but Sexy at the same time: Let me explain using two people as examples: You can lack beauty, but still have sex appeal, just like you can lack sex appeal but still have physical beauty.

Ex: Nick Lachey...In my opinion he is a gorgeous guy and fits every popular standard in terms of "hottie" that I can think of. However, i do not find him sexy at all. He's too clean lookn, he only has his pretty looks.....he's easy on the eyes, but not to quick on the crotch...if u know what i mean. He is physically beautiful, but he lacks sex appeal....i mean, he has, but very little.

Johnny Knoxville....not that great lookn a guy, his face looks busted a lot, he's kinda skinny, and he grosses me out a lot on his show. However, he's sexy as hell. He has that bad-boy, dirty guy charisma. His look alone is not too appealing, but the TOTAL package is sexy as hell.

I'll expand if I confused you on that point.

2)A Dog's Leash...both a symbol of control AND freedom: My Labridor Jeter LOVES his leash....when i grab it, he knows it means he's going out for a nice long walk, away from home. To him it is most likely a symbol of escape, of routine freedom, he knows he will be outside. TO ME it is a symbol of control...a way to keep my dog where I need him. How ironic, that to me it is nothing more than a control tool, but to him it symbolizes the freedom of going out for a walk (not to mention when we get to a certain area, i let him off the leash, and he knows that)

3) All Irony in General - Irony occurs in real life very frequently, there is no way to deny this. Are not Ironic situations a more complicated version of an oxymoron ?

the only absolute truth is that there are NO absolute truths. but even THAT can be denied.

hence there are none.

Here is an absolute truth: I am conscious of my existance.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the only absolute truth is that there are NO absolute truths

😈
The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
But then, That is an absolute.
Okay. There is only one absolute.

No. Now there are two:
1. There are no absolutes.
2. There is only one absolute (ie, "There are no absolutes"😉.
Okay. There are only two absolutes.

No. Now there are three:
1. There are no absolutes.
2. There is only one absolute ("There are no absolutes"😉.
3. There are only two absolutes ("There are no absolutes" / "There is only one absolute"😉.
Okay. There are only three absolutes.

No. Now there are four...
😈

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the only absolute truth is that there are NO absolute truths. but even THAT can be denied.

Nope, not even that is an absolute truth.

Janus one more real life oxymoron:

A Gay Conservative........

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the only absolute truth is that there are NO absolute truths.

Its false by defenition.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
A Gay Conservative........

The thing is people dont' realise that there are two type sof issue to have a stance on. I'm as far left as you can go on social issues, but when it comes to real government policy I'm actually quite moderate if not conservative. Its not an oxymoron...well...sometimes.

(Most people (at least Americans) jsut forget about real government policy because they are too dull to divide it...heceforth libera-conservative falls in the hands of social issues which apparently everyone is qualified to judge 😐) Just remember the difference/narrownes of the words your using. 😛

Originally posted by Alliance
Its false by defenition.

Not true...you've heard of the long cabin republicans right?

The thing is people dont' realise that there are two type sof issue to have a stance on. I'm as far left as you can go on social issues, but when it comes to real government policy I'm actually quite moderate if not conservative. Its not an oxymoron...well...sometimes.

(Most people (at least Americans) jsut forget about real government policy because they are too dull to divide it...heceforth libera-conservative falls in the hands of social issues which apparently everyone is qualified to judge 😐) Just remember the difference/narrownes of the words your using. 😛

Fine.....

A Gay Christian

LOL 😆 j/k that was probably a bad example. But my previous examples I feel hold water.

erm...I still dont think so. The only irony lies in the fact that both gay conservatieve and gay christians are self-disenfranchising....which i find amusing 😐.

Originally posted by Alliance
erm...I still dont think so. The only irony lies in the fact that both gay conservatieve and gay christians are self-disenfranchising....which i find amusing 😐.

Dude I already dropped that argument when I said the gay conservative thing was a bad example.

I was talking about my other oxymoron examples that are either in this page, or the last one.

Ne ways, while on that quick subject...i find it hypocritical that gay people would become conservative and therefore strengthen a policy that basically goes against THEM.

oh, sorry. brainfart.

Yeah, I agree. 😛

I believe there is a truth, but we don't quite know it.

Maybe things can be absolute in their meanings, or sensations they bring, but for the language of logic the existence of absolutes could be a problem.