Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
GayC!? Oh my days! Your so clever!Oh, so when your shitty logic is proved wrong its an exception? LOL n00baris you truly do suck
Yoda is almost 1,000 years old; given his age and the amount of time he's had to learn the ways of the force and saber, he wouldn't have to focus on combat to still be damn powerful. He's the exception, not the rule, unless you want to argue that logic dictates that a random jedi who focuses on diplomacy would be more powerful than a random jedi who focuses on combat..
Originally posted by allfg
Why do you even post here TD? Do you actually find it fun constantly losing at everything you do here?
Awww thats adorable. Noobaris can't win a single argument for the life of him, so now all of a sudden everybody ELSE loses. Noobaris, when you project your sad life onto me, make sure it's factual and not otherwise. You telling anybody else that they're losing arguments is hilarious. Please clown, continue the entertainment. Sometimes I wish you weren't banned, so that you could stay for the pwnage you receive everytime you're here.
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
I'll say this again, because you seem to have selective vision, no one in the KOTOR era(aside from Nihlius) has done anything on the level Revan has, He was able to toy with the minds of an entire species, create force storms, overpower planets steeped in the Dark Side, had the best Battle Precognition known to the galaxy. Name ONE person in KOTOR who has even come close to this.You have no evidence to support your argument and you sound like an idiot since you keep saying the same things over and over. I'll ask you AGAIN why are Revans feats unimpressive compared to the other greats of the KOTOR era who you can't seem to name?
The exact quote:
The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. Malak was nearly unstoppable. - Star Wars Databank
I'll admit I got it wrong when it said invincible, but unstoppable is pretty much the same thing.
Since you asked for gameplay evidence of Malaks power, we can turn to the Wizards of Coasts article about him.
An imposing figure with ghostly pale features, prominent Sith tattoos, a gleaming red lightsaber, and devastating Dark Side power, Malak struck terror into the hearts of his former allies. He also wore a vocal mask that may have concealed a form of cybernetic life-support. Did it provide him with powers far greater than even Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd, or was cybernetic enhancement too simple an explanation?
Enhanced Force Powers -- Using a mysterious power source as yet undiscovered (complete Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic to learn more), Darth Malak possesses extraordinary dark side Force powers out of proportion, in game terms, with his class and level.
And if were going by the D20 system Malaks in game powers and feats are off the charts:
Str 20, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 17, Cha 20.
Force Skills: Affect Mind +9, Control Mind +14, Battlemind +17, Enhance Ability +15, Fear +20, Force Defense +15, Force Grip +18, Force Lightning +24, Force Strike +11, Move Object +15, Telepathy +13.
Force Feats: Alter, Burst of Speed, Control, Drain Force*, Force Mind, Force Whirlwind, Hatred*, Knight Defense, Lightsaber Defense, Malevolent, Master Defense, Mettle, Rage*, Sense, Sith Sorcery*, Sith Sword Defense*.
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5 -- Darth Malak ignores the first five points of any kind of damage. Whether this is due to hidden armor linked to his voice mask or the physical result of Sith alchemy is anyone's guess.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/sw20031009malak
Really Malak was no joke. Oh yeah BTW Revan beat that...twice.
Again selective vision, what are you talking about? Jacen and Revan performed pretty much the exact same feat, probing the mind for information.
I'll break it down for you.
Jacen attempted to do it to Boba Fetts daughter Ailyn Vel, accept with his lack of control and force mastery he accidentally caused and aneurysm and killed her.
Revan ripped a complex language system out of one of their heads, without killing them, then he shoved Galactic Basic inside their heads so they could understand him, also some of these Rataka were force sensitive. Now that level of force mastery is amazing.
Jacen the number 2 of the New Jedi Order couldn't touch Revans feat, so that alone means Revan is more powerful in the force then the entire NJO save for Luke.
What don't you get about this?
Again as I said it extends past dogma, to even affiliations to the force, hence why Revan had access to both Dark and Light powers, much like Jacen Solo.
You don't get it do you? I'm not saying Revan is unimpressive I'm saying that there's nothing he's done to distinguish himself as the be-and-end-all of his era. Not Like Luke did or Sadow, basically I'm saying there were a lot of impressive force users in Revan's time,, with their own legitimate claims to that title.
I don't really care to get into a discussion of who is the best (and I mean this, take it however you like), all I know is that there are several candidates (Revan included).
The era hasn't even been closed out so why the insistence? I don't care to make you content, it's good that you have your candidate, I don't have mine.
And I've read the wizard of the coast character description before, I don't need to read it again.
I'll say this again "nearly unstoppable" in Malak's case is hyperbole as we have no basis to measure the extent of his invulnerability. It's easy to write almost unstoppable because the statement has no strings attached. Let me enlighten you with a question, what was his vulnerability attached to?
his skills with his saber? his mastery of the force? his will? the dead Jedi in the containers? Because his vulnerability was associated with all of the above its impossible to legitimize the description " almost unstoppable" as anything more than hyperbole.
And Revan merely allowed the Rakata to understand him, it's called the force. The word "ripping" is abit too strong a word for telepathy, and in this case the exchhnge of knowledge through this psionic technique. It's happened several times in varying degrees through out SW, sometimes it's manifested as an inherent ability e.g. Jacen's empathy.
Another case of your exxagerations. To be honest the feat is relatively impressive but hardly uber or a feat warranting awe and unwavering deference. I'd bet if another character had done this you would hardly be harping on as you are now with Revan.
Originally posted by Allankles
You don't get it do you? I'm not saying Revan is unimpressive I'm saying that there's nothing he's done to distinguish himself as the be-and-end-all of his era. Not Like Luke did or Sadow, basically I'm saying there were a lot of impressive force users in Revan's time,, with their own legitimate claims to that title.
Remember that the position of a Jedi is determined by many factors such as: knowledge in the Force, skills, achievements/accomplishments, leadership abilities and power.
Originally posted by Allankles
I don't really care to get into a discussion of who is the best (and I mean this, take it however you like), all I know is that there are several candidates (Revan included).
Originally posted by Allankles
The era hasn't even been closed out so why the insistence? I don't care to make you content, it's good that you have your candidate, I don't have mine.
Just simply say that your favourite KOTOR II characters are the most powerful ever and end the story.
Originally posted by Allankles
And I've read the wizard of the coast character description before, I don't need to read it again.
Originally posted by Allankles
I'll say this again "nearly unstoppable" in Malak's case is hyperbole as we have no basis to measure the extent of his invulnerability. It's easy to write almost unstoppable because the statement has no strings attached. Let me enlighten you with a question, what was his vulnerability attached to?
Of-course Malak was not 100% invincible but he was damn powerful when Revan faced him on Star Forge and he had made certain preparations to make him nearly unstoppable in that fight.
Originally posted by Allankles
his skills with his saber? his mastery of the force? his will? the dead Jedi in the containers? Because his vulnerability was associated with all of the above its impossible to legitimize the description " almost unstoppable" as anything more than hyperbole.
Originally posted by Allankles
And Revan merely allowed the Rakata to understand him, it's called the force. The word "ripping" is abit too strong a word for telepathy, and in this case the exchhnge of knowledge through this psionic technique. It's happened several times in varying degrees through out SW, sometimes it's manifested as an inherent ability e.g. Jacen's empathy.
Originally posted by Allankles
Another case of your exxagerations. To be honest the feat is relatively impressive but hardly uber or a feat warranting awe and unwavering deference. I'd bet if another character had done this you would hardly be harping on as you are now with Revan.
Jacen tried this feat with just a single person and he failed miserably.
Allankles, you can't just "take" something in an exchange of knowledge with out supreme control of the force, Jacen attempted to do this to a Non-force user who couldn't shield her thought from someone as powerful as Jacen, but when Jacen tries to remove information he kills her, Revan removed an entire dialect system and forced basic in.
The feat is impressive because it shows Revans level of power and control something someone as powerful as Jacen couldn't mimic.
Now I'm not gonna sit up here an lie and say I would just as equally impressed if it was someone else, I wouldn't. Simply because Revan is my favorite character, but I can be objective and not let fanboyism cloud my judgment. And in being objective I see no one else to date in the KOTOR era who comes close to Revan in power, the only other one I could see is Traya.
Because you're hardly a neutral party it's ok for you to say "you haven't seen any character more powerful than Revan in the Kotor era". I can say that Traya is certainly a contender for most powerful of the Kotor era as is Nihilus and the Exile for obvious reasons (second big time hero of the era).
So the candidates (from my less biased point of view) would be Nihilus, Kreia, The Exile, Revan (first known big time hero of the era). All this 4 have their tremendous strengths and weaknesses and so far in the Kotor era no one (besides Sion and Malak) comes close to matching them. They could all be legitimate candidates, favouritism aside.
SW legend, you need to take this discussions less seriously, you seem like an absolute tool half the time I see you discuss anything on Revan. And your rebuttals on my comments on Malak's near invincibilty?.... Off base, re read my post and try again.
And there are many characters not named Revan that have many considerable accomplishments under there names in the kotor era.
I just don't care to have an argument over who specifically is the strongest.
I don't think the era is so much about Revan as it is about the many Jedi heroes in one particularly tumultuous era in SW (as opposed to the NJO which reads like a story about the Skywalkers verses the galaxy), and I believe that it is this reasoning that has affected my perspective on Revan (who is to me just one of the great heroes).
Originally posted by Allankles
I don't think the era is so much about Revan as it is about the many Jedi heroes in one particularly tumultuous era in SW (as opposed to the NJO which reads like a story about the Skywalkers verses the galaxy), and I believe that it is this reasoning that has affected my perspective on Revan (who is to me just one of the great heroes).
KOTOR Stories are mainly focused on Revan.
- KOTOR I is fully based on adventures of Revan.
- KOTOR II has a different story but synchronizes very well with Revan's adventures. Revan has been heavily discussed in this game. Revan's Jedi Master is an important character in this game and she prepares the Jedi Exile for once again aiding Revan in his cause. Jedi Exile in the end of K2 goes out to search for Revan to support him in his cause.
So KOTOR Stories are focused on adventures of Revan. Revan is the ultimate hero of KOTOR Age.
All Revan did was use the force to learn their language, and use the force to teach them Basic. To make a comparison between that, and actually torturing someone's mind with the force (which was what Jacen did) is silly. And the explanation given was that Jacen's prisoner's mind wasn't strong enough, and that he was being too reckless, not that he lacked the control or mastery and was somewhat incompetent.
Originally posted by allfg
All Revan did was use the force to learn their language, and use the force to teach them Basic. To make a comparison between that, and actually torturing someone's mind with the force (which was what Jacen did) is silly. And the explanation given was that Jacen's prisoner's mind wasn't strong enough, and that he was being too reckless, not that he lacked the control or mastery and was somewhat incompetent.
He forcefully dominated their minds by instantly forcing Basic language in to their brains. And this is a very risky thing.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You must understand that Revan did not held a teaching session for Rakatans.
I do understand that Revan did not held a teaching session for Rakatans. 😛
He forcefully dominated their minds by instantly forcing Basic language in to their brains. And this is a very risky thing.
Quantify this. The Jacen example doesn't work. By this logic, force persuade is uber to the max too, since it's messing around with people's minds.
Quantify this. The Jacen example doesn't work. By this logic, force persuade is uber to the max too, since it's messing around with people's minds. [/B]
It doesn't need to be quantified considering it's not a force persuade, but a dominate mind trick. He didn't persuade anybody anything, he just ripped the language out of their minds and put in basic. It's an incredible display of force mastery that Jacen wasn't able to duplicate on 1 non force user.
Because you're hardly a neutral party it's ok for you to say "you haven't seen any character more powerful than Revan in the Kotor era".
Thats stupid, my opinion is valued less simply cause I like the character? If thats the case so is yours since you display an obvious dislike for Revan.
I can say that Traya is certainly a contender for most powerful of the Kotor era
The thing is name one thing she could do Revan potentially couldn't. Considering he found Malachor first and stripped it of its most useful knowledge its safe to assume he has what Kreia has(in terms of force powers) and then some, especially considering Malak could perform the drain too and he hadn't even seen the Trayus Academy.
Revans higher force connection + all his knowledge > Kreia
as is Nihilus
For his one ability yes, but all around hell no.
the Exile for obvious reasons (second big time hero of the era).
First you'd have to prove the Exile even has one offensive force power.
So the candidates (from my less biased point of view)
would be Nihilus, Kreia, The Exile, Revan (first known big time hero of the era). All this 4 have their tremendous strengths and weaknesses and so far in the Kotor era no one (besides Sion and Malak) comes close to matching them. They could all be legitimate candidates, favouritism aside.
The thing is all potential candidates pale in comparison to Revan cause he's sort of a Gary Sue, whatever little special power they have Revan could potentially do it better cause of his force connection, what ever little knowledge they have that looks exclusive to them Revan already has. Revan is already shown to be stronger then Kreia, he was able to combat the dark side on Malachor while Kreia was broken by it.